Young Justice Cartoon - Part 6

[RockSP]

Originally Posted by Artistsean

I think its a way for the show to use this new Blue Beetle but not forget about the Ted Kord Blue Beetle. Also to maybe not have it be alien because the whole story is about an alien invasion and maybe they don't want it to interfere some how. This is an alternate reality from the comics. Roy Harper is now a clone of Speedy, and so is the Gold Gardian from Cadmus. So its possible that this is technology by Kord. Then again it could be that Ted Kord found the alien tech and altered it or something, but its origins are alien. And maybe that will play a part in the whole alien invasion thing, that the new Blue Beetle is actually alien.

I think Jaime just doesn't know it is alien in origin. The way the Kroloteans reacted to him makes me think the scarab is still a product of The Reach even in this reality.

[Artistsean]

But where did he get the idea that its from Kord?
Thats why I was thinking that maybe the story for the cartoon has changed, because the writers can't show its made by Ted Kord they have exposition by other characters to say its from him. But I agree its so advanced that I could see it being alien tech found by Kord. Maybe manipulated and experimented on by Kord, advanced somewhat by Kord even. Plus it most likely will be part of the larger alien invasion story.
But I still think Ted Kord is part of Jaime's story somehow.

Still would love to see a Blue Beetle design and a flashback on the show. Hope they do it, now they have a reason too. Go back and show that the Scarab is alien, Ted Kord was protecting it from the Light and was killed for it. They can work that into the alien invasion story.

[Scarecrow_King]

I hate that the thing that defines Ted Kord now is that he's dead. He was a ****ing awesome character for 20 years before he died, but instead of seeing any good stories with him, we get DC only using Jaime. They need to quit doing that just because he's one of their little pet projects.

[RockSP]

Originally Posted by Artistsean

But where did he get the idea that its from Kord?
Thats why I was thinking that maybe the story for the cartoon has changed,

Yeah I didn't mean to suggest the story is exactly the same as the comic, just some of the broad strokes. My assumption is Ted was in possession of the scarab before his death and Jaime thinks he created it.

[Juan1193]

I hope they explain more of Jaime's backstory, especially when it comes to the Scarab. I also think Jaime will play a large role this season, which is awesome!! Now I'm hoping Traci or Lorena show up, because then Young Justice would officially be my favorite show ever!!

[TheCorpulent1]

Man, I would kill to see Traci 13 or Lorena on the show. I doubt the latter will appear, though, since Tula's apparently the talk of the town with the Aqua-characters. The former, though, who knows? More esoteric people have showed up.

[Lencho01]

Originally Posted by Artistsean

But where did he get the idea that its from Kord?
Thats why I was thinking that maybe the story for the cartoon has changed, because the writers can't show its made by Ted Kord they have exposition by other characters to say its from him. But I agree its so advanced that I could see it being alien tech found by Kord. Maybe manipulated and experimented on by Kord, advanced somewhat by Kord even. Plus it most likely will be part of the larger alien invasion story.
But I still think Ted Kord is part of Jaime's story somehow.

Still would love to see a Blue Beetle design and a flashback on the show. Hope they do it, now they have a reason too. Go back and show that the Scarab is alien, Ted Kord was protecting it from the Light and was killed for it. They can work that into the alien invasion story.

Jaime said that Captain Atom told him that he figures it was an invention of Kord. So, I'm guessing no one knows it's of alien origin other than Kord, the Kroloteans, and likely The Light (and their partner). I think they'll get into how the Scarab ended up with Jaime.

[Artistsean]

Originally Posted by RockSP

Yeah I didn't mean to suggest the story is exactly the same as the comic, just some of the broad strokes. My assumption is Ted was in possession of the scarab before his death and Jaime thinks he created it.

I know, its just something that didn't have to be changed at all. The should could have just left out Ted Kord all together, like the Hulk movies left out Rick Jones. So I got super excited at the idea that maybe they could show Kord on Young Justice one day. I hope they do in a small flashback.

Originally Posted by Lencho01

Jaime said that Captain Atom told him that he figures it was an invention of Kord. So, I'm guessing no one knows it's of alien origin other than Kord, the Kroloteans, and likely The Light (and their partner). I think they'll get into how the Scarab ended up with Jaime.

It would be nice if the show went into his origin more (because it figured into the show) and showed how Ted Kord got it (and it was alien) and tried to keep it from the Light and they ended up killing him for it. Maybe Blue Beetle will be the key to all this in the end. And Ted Kord died trying to make sure they key wasn't lost forever.

Originally Posted by TheCorpulent1

Man, I would kill to see Traci 13 or Lorena on the show. I doubt the latter will appear, though, since Tula's apparently the talk of the town with the Aqua-characters. The former, though, who knows? More esoteric people have showed up.

Tula? Didn't the show say she died? And thats why Aqualad turned evil? Found out that Manta is his father, Aquaman lied to him all these years, and that Tula died? So if the did they could bring in the other Lorena.

[Dread]

Originally Posted by Artistsean

I liked the part about the Blue Beetle Scarab being an invention/weapon created by Ted Kord, the original Blue Beetle, before he died.
And Superboy saying he was a good man.

Makes me want to see a flashback episode to see how the show Young Justice would not only draw Blue Beetle but how they would write him.
I really hope that some episode they will do that. please please please!

That would be cool.

However, I do think the backstory about Ted Kord having invented the Scarab may not be entirely accurate. I say it not only because that doesn't jive with the comic book origin - and this is an "alien season" - but that Jaime Reyes only knows the origin through hearsay. He is going by what Captain Atom told him, which Atom may not know himself or may be fudging to spare the kid some turmoil. The heroes may not know WHERE Kord's scarab came from and simply assumed a cover story of "he invented it".

That, or Kord himself could have developed that story to keep "The Light" from realizing what the scarab was.

Originally Posted by Grommers

I often think people get misconstrued on the purpose of the hero, and it's not just to stop "bad guys." There is quite many another use for them, and although I agree the "light" seem more like an omnipotent cult, there isn't much reason to stop them. They aren't necessarily doing anything "completely" evil at this point and time. There is much more time sensitive matters at hand. e.g. kroloteans etc.

I often think to the quote "Eternal Vigilance is the Price of Liberty." Now obviously you have to delve into that even deeper, as that same saying could work in a villains favour, however the ideals of the people seem to come to mind for super heroes, where as the ideals of an individual come to mind for the villain.

"The Light" have all broken some sort of law throughout their procedures and while some of them may be beyond the scope of the law - Queen Bee likely enjoys diplomatic immunity, for instance - there are other factors to employ. Vandal Savage, for example, assaulted state troopers on the highway; if for nothing else that could get him locked up if captured. Virtually all of them collaborated with "known felons". Sure, they're above such trivial things, but it's a method to justify attempting to apprehend them with some legal basis.

"An omnipotent cult". That's a pretty clever phrase, and I think I like it. I know there are other uses for superheroes, but it might be interesting if we had an episode where someone sort of figured out how little all of their efforts have hindered "the Light" at all. It is like trying to stop a tsunami with a bucket. All you're doing is distracting it. Eventually someone might realize the scope and progression of "The Light" and wonder if it is all really worth expending all that effort to succeed merely at slowing them down.

My dilemma is that omnipotent characters or cabals quickly lose that element of suspense for me, and that diminishes a work somewhat. "The Light" are great villains and it is a shame they're being rendered more two dimensional than they should through omnipotence.

Originally Posted by Sarcastic Fan

Okay, Bialya did NOT conquer Qurac.

According to Greg Weisman, that map was a goof.

http://youngjustice.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Qurac

Interesting. Good to get some clarification on that. Goofs happen, especially with there being almost no leeway in the schedule of the show. At least then the events of "IMAGE" weren't completely worthless from a strategic perspective, either.

My attempt at a "No-Prize" is that Nightwing's map showcased Boom-Tube use and while that naturally involved an uptick in Bialya, perhaps Bialyian agents would sneak into locations in Qurac for drops as well.

Originally Posted by Hit-Girl

The code of not killing their enemies is what keeps these supervillians coming back. It's like this in any story where the hero doesn't end their enemies for good, knowing full well they have the connections or resources to break out of prison and return.

The code against killing villains isn't the dilemma. The dilemma is the competence of "The Light" has gone beyond merely being amazingly prepared and resourceful and has reached that 4th wall where you FEEL that the entire show is written to provide them an escape clause. It is like "The Light" have access to the script of the show in advance while the heroes have no clue they are part of a TV show. The entire universe of Earth-16 bends over backwards to assure "The Light" are always a step ahead, unto infinity. And for me it has seriously begun to ware them down to the point that they aren't a threat or even charismatic villains, but are some universal elemental force which can't be stopped like gravity. It is literally akin to watching someone trying to cut down a redwood with a herring. After a while you realize how futile it is, and either the person with the herring realizes it and either ceases or tries something else, or perpetually wastes everyone's time, forever. There is only so long you can get dramatic weight out of someone or some ones uselessly flailing their arms at an element and getting nowhere.

The irony is I genuinely feel "The Light" would have a harder time accomplishing their goals without a Justice League or a "team" to manipulate like goldfish to fish food, and the irony is they all quit, that might be more of a decisive tactic against "The Light" than anything else. And while I know in real life that's end the show and couldn't happen, I really shouldn't be at a point with a show where I feel the best thing a protagonist should do against an antagonist is nothing at all.

I feel if this sort of dynamic were a bit more balanced - if "The Light" were challenged more often and actually had to ELEVATE THEIR GAME in response to the heroes - both they and the show would be better off. Because at this point the show is often akin to "how will the heroes utterly fail to stop whatever 'The Light' is doing this week?" And that's without getting into the dilemma of too many new spare characters and too few of the older established ones. And as good as the show is despite all this, I see it as an unfortunate yoke the producers have placed on it. They've done to "The Light" what writers did to Superman a lot in the Golden Age. By making them invincible, they've made them less relevant.

It could be just my taste. Some people actually like characters or teams who not only never lose, but are never challenged, never have to STRUGGLE for a win. Batman, Hulk, Wolverine, even Goku have reached insane levels of reputation to a section of fans for these perceived skills. They are the fans who rave if Hulk even struggles to overcome an obstacle or if Batman doesn't have some prep-time gadget handy for any situation immediately. Thankfully, those characters are not often as one-dimensional as those fans believe they are, and I'd like "The Light" to avoid falling into a similar trap. I am certain there is a way to write them as being awesomely cunning and competent villains without them being so omnipotent they render the actions of the cast worthless.

Originally Posted by Scarecrow_King

I hate that the thing that defines Ted Kord now is that he's dead. He was a ****ing awesome character for 20 years before he died, but instead of seeing any good stories with him, we get DC only using Jaime. They need to quit doing that just because he's one of their little pet projects.

You do have a point. However, I do think it is a good idea to try to give newer characters a push so they actually have a chance to become popular. It is something Marvel has failed to do very well at all in comparison.

[Scarecrow_King]

Originally Posted by Dread

You do have a point. However, I do think it is a good idea to try to give newer characters a push so they actually have a chance to become popular. It is something Marvel has failed to do very well at all in comparison.

I wouldn't mind them giving a new character a push if they didn't completely skip over a good one to do so. Legacy characters mean nothing if the story tellers don't establish that legacy to begin with.

[Dread]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow_King

I wouldn't mind them giving a new character a push if they didn't completely skip over a good one to do so. Legacy characters mean nothing if the story tellers don't establish that legacy to begin with.

True. Hence why I liked the solid episode Ted Kord got on "BATMAN: BRAVE AND THE BOLD".

[GamerSlyRatchet]

Originally Posted by Dread

True. Hence why I liked the solid episode Ted Kord got on "BATMAN: BRAVE AND THE BOLD".

He got two, actually. The second one was Booster Gold reuniting with his best buddy one last time via time travel.

[Scarecrow_King]

I don't like Brave and the Bold, but I am going to find that episode and watch the HELL out of it.

[Artistsean]

It was a very touching and sad episode for such a child friendly show. Much like their very last episode.

Originally Posted by Scarecrow_King

I hate that the thing that defines Ted Kord now is that he's dead. He was a ****ing awesome character for 20 years before he died, but instead of seeing any good stories with him, we get DC only using Jaime. They need to quit doing that just because he's one of their little pet projects.

Well since Jaime is the Blue Beetle in the comics right now its reasonable that DC would want to use him in things. James Robinson said that it would be silly to not use the stuff from the comics right now, you want to promote the comics as well as tell a good story. That is why when they do a JLA film it will probably be based on the New 52 stuff and not the stuff before it.
But they also love Ted Kord and want to let fans know they didn't just forget his character like the Hulk movies forgot Rick Jones. So at the very least he is mentioned, and they had to mention why he isn't there so his death is mentioned. I hope they do a flashback scene. Just so I can see how he would be designed for the cartoon. I love their designs.
It does bug that Kord keeps dying in a heroic way in the cartoons. But that follows that he was killed off in a heroic way in the comics.
If Jamie becomes a bigger part of the story, the Croletains are scared of him, his Scarab might be alien in origin, the Light brought all these aliens to Earth (painted a target), the Light have a secret evil partner, and in the comics the Blue Beetle Scarab is actually part of this evil invasion in the comics right now. Its possible that he will have a major role to play, meaning that Ted Kord's death will play a major role too. Maybe.

I just really want to see Blue Beetle animated into Young Justice. Maybe a small flashback scene where Ted Kord is trying to kep the Scarab from the Light and (as Blue Beetle) is killed while doing so. I can see it being similar to his death in the comics only with less blood, off camera death. And maybe even bring in Max Lord as the shooter/assassin for the Light or maybe make it Lex Luthor as the shooter or maybe he is killed by Savage himself. Or perhaps, depending how intricate to the plot Jamie is, maybe he is killed by the secret partner himself.

[GamerSlyRatchet]

Originally Posted by Artistsean

And maybe even bring in Max Lord as the shooter/assassin for the Light

And just like Ted Kord is now known as the one who died, Max Lord is now known as a sleazy villain. I remember when he was a morally ambiguous pal to the JL in Justice League International before Geoff Johns forced more cheap drama as always, and made him an outright villain.

[Artistsean]

He was always a sort of bad guy. He was once controlled by an evil robot, before that he killed a guy, so he was always a bad guy. But hew was becoming good. there was even a point where he said to himself I am going to be a good guy from now on, more or less thats what he said. I mean, somehow even though he had killed a guy and took his company or something he seemed like a harmless hapless bad guy who had switched to being a good guy.
But I just meant that he could be the one who actually kills Ted if they wanted to pay tribute to that comic, but I wouldn't care if it wasn't him. Maybe they could make it similar to the panel layouts too, only animated. That could be fun.
There was a comic by Giffen and Maguire that came out right after Max shot Ted that ends with Ted, Max, and Beetle, all hugging like pals and smiling. I loved that version of JLI. The original version.

[Lencho01]

Originally Posted by Artistsean

It would be nice if the show went into his origin more (because it figured into the show) and showed how Ted Kord got it (and it was alien) and tried to keep it from the Light and they ended up killing him for it. Maybe Blue Beetle will be the key to all this in the end. And Ted Kord died trying to make sure they key wasn't lost forever.

Maybe Ted was onto what the Light (and their partner) was going to do and almost stopped them all on his own or at least hurt their plans bad enough that it didn't seem his efforts were worthless. He ended up with the Scarab somehow, they killed him for it, and Jaime got it. It could be that Jaime (and thus Ted) are the key to "winning" this season.

[Artistsean]

Originally Posted by Lencho01

Maybe Ted was onto what the Light (and their partner) was going to do and almost stopped them all on his own or at least hurt their plans bad enough that it didn't seem his efforts were worthless. He ended up with the Scarab somehow, they killed him for it, and Jaime got it. It could be that Jaime (and thus Ted) are the key to "winning" this season.

For me this would mainly be because I want to see Ted Kord as Blue Beetle animated into the show in a flashback, but yes this would be awesome. Even if Ted wasn't on the verge of stopping them but just trying to keep an alien weapon from the Light without knowing their plans for it would be great. Maybe the scarab is the key, Jaime having it makes him the key, and Ted protecting it makes his death much more important to the story. I am not going to wait for this though, not going to hold my breath. His death might have just been mentioned and they could do the rest of the season without mentioning Ted again... but I really hope they do.

[Panthro]

Originally Posted by Artistsean

Well since Jaime is the Blue Beetle in the comics right now its reasonable that DC would want to use him in things. James Robinson said that it would be silly to not use the stuff from the comics right now, you want to promote the comics as well as tell a good story. That is why when they do a JLA film it will probably be based on the New 52 stuff and not the stuff before it.

Which is why I fear that if they ever do get a Flash film off the ground and decide to include Kid Flash in some form they'll use Bart Allen instead of Wally West, simply because Wally's MIA right now and Bart isn't, despite the fact that Wally's a better character overall.

[Scarecrow_King]

do you mean Barry?

[Panthro]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow_King

do you mean Barry?

No, I'm talking about Bart Vs. Wally in regards to giving Barry Allen a youthful sidekick in the films, since I heard they were gunning to make Barry the main Flash of the proposed Flash film adaptation. Although the way WB & DC work it'll probably be 850 years before the Flash's live action film actually gets made.

[Scarecrow_King]

oh, KID Flash. sorry, didn't see the Kid part.

[Panthro]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow_King

oh, KID Flash. sorry, didn't see the Kid part.

Nah that's cool man.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Panthro

No, I'm talking about Bart Vs. Wally in regards to giving Barry Allen a youthful sidekick in the films, since I heard they were gunning to make Barry the main Flash of the proposed Flash film adaptation. Although the way WB & DC work it'll probably be 850 years before the Flash's live action film actually gets made.

Bart will probably get mixed with Wally. That's the way they do things. Like how the Robins tend to get features mixed. In Batman TAS Dick wore Tim's outfit and Tim Drake got Jason Todd's origin. In the recent Batman: Arkham City Tim Drake wear's Damian Wayne's hood. It wouldn't surprise me if they use Bart Allen but with Wally's background and maybe even his affinity for science but keep Bart's impulsive nature. I'm hoping Young Justice is just so popular that they go with Wally's Kid Flash completely (even in that show they incorporated Bart's goggles. What I'm saying is a mix is inevitable).

[Webhead2006]

How hard is it to say ted had the scrab and like comics couldn't get it to work fully. But he created his bb tech by reverse engining it and was a hero for a time. Killed off and bam the scrab then finds it way to jaime and starts working. Easily to do in a flash back.