The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Part 7

[Pac-Master]

The Avengers' last battle trumps the final battles in all the other MS movies to me.

[A Necessary Evil]

It does

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by webhead731

I still enjoy The Incredible Hulk's final battle more than any of the other Marvel Studios movies. Just Hulk and Abomination. Basic, intense, good effects, amazing score.

TIH gets way too much hate or gets put into the backseat whenever a great Marvel film is brought up. I loved the film and yes, that final battle was pretty spectacular. That showed how a final battle featuring Hulk should be like, not like in the '03 film where the last fifteen-twenty minutes was miserable to watch.

[webhead731]

I thought the last 15 minutes were well acted, and it was interesting...but it was just...TOO out there. I felt like a battle with the army would have sufficed. I don't know. It was mostly helped by an amazing score.

[Anno_Domini]

Yes! The film focusing just on Hulk and the Army would've been fine as Hulk wasn't really portrayed as a full "hero" anyways. The idea of his father and him becoming a villain...that whole plot was just unnecessary, imo. Nevertheless, I do enjoy that movie.

[webhead731]

Yes it was a bit unnecessary. I won't lie, I wasn't bored with it and I found it pretty interesting, and Nick Nolte and Eric Bana acted very well and very intensely with each other. It's just the Absorbing Man bit seemed to be there just to be a Hulk villain. I really don't know where else they could take his father in that story without the absorbing bit, but I'm sure something could have been done.

[Venom75]

I really enjoyed TIH as well. It was loads better the Lee's Hulk. I just wish we could've gotten a sequel.

[GENERAL RAAM582]

I did like Ang Lee's Hulk, I'd give it a 7.5.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by webhead731

Yes it was a bit unnecessary. I won't lie, I wasn't bored with it and I found it pretty interesting, and Nick Nolte and Eric Bana acted very well and very intensely with each other. It's just the Absorbing Man bit seemed to be there just to be a Hulk villain. I really don't know where else they could take his father in that story without the absorbing bit, but I'm sure something could have been done.

Ehh...I wouldn't mind if Hulk actually ended up killing his dad without even becoming some type of Absorbing Man. I mean, Lee's Hulk wasn't stereotyped as a hero at all, so I could see that working out for the film.

Originally Posted by Venom75

I really enjoyed TIH as well. It was loads better the Lee's Hulk. I just wish we could've gotten a sequel.

Well Ruffalo has signed up for six films, so that definitely mean a sequel to TIH. Sadly, Norton won't be Banner though...I'm still a bit pissed that they didn't keep Norton though, haha. I remember talking to my friend before the midnight showing of Avengers and we were talking about how they screwed Norton over by not bringing him back and cutting TIH's scenes that Norton specifically wrote in.

[A Necessary Evil]

I love AngHulk. It's literally like peter's david's psychological run translated verbatim on the big screen (well...not including the typical changes in source) but still.

Agreed on bringing in Ruffalo for TIH2.

[The Morningstar]

You kidding me? The CGI in the final Hulk vs Abomination battle is horrible, for a 150 million dollar 2008 film anyway.

How can anyone in their right mind think that is better than the action in Avengers? That just completely baffles me. The 1 minute long tracking shot where it swoops all over the place alone puts it above any other Marvel movie, and imo any other superhero movie.

[webhead731]

Woooah duder. Horrible? It had some good CGI if you ask me. Yeah, there are some parts you could totally tell that were fake but to be fair, Hulk looked flimsy in Avengers a few times too.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

[Anno_Domini]

Yah....TIH had incredible CGI for its budget. I don't know what the hell you're smoking to think it's horrible by any means.

[henzINNIT]

Mostly, I disliked the Hulk design in Norton's film. The CGI wasn't bad by any means, but nothing spectacular. I was bored during the last fight.

[Anno_Domini]

I think TIH's Hulk design was too ripped at times, definitely, but I still really like the look. It did make sense though with how Norton's Banner exercised, did yoga and et cetera, so when he turned into Hulk, he would look like that. Ruffalo's Hulk went back into hiding for the next year and didn't really do any of that because exercise wasn't the key, it was to "stay angry" which gave us a less-leaner Hulk. So it kinda fits with the different looks. Plus, the size difference and the eyes flicking green...those could have changed, for continuity sake, because Ruffalo's Banner finally "understood" how to control it. Norton's Banner could have controlled the Hulk at the end of TIH and that was the last time his eyes flickered green.

[Picard Sisko]

Originally Posted by henzINNIT

One of my favourite things about the Spider-Man series is its iconic action sequences. I don't know whether it's genre saturation or director-laziness, but most comic book movies since have had pretty unmemorable action to me; even the good ones like Iron Man and Dark Knight.

I actually do agree with you on that. None of the X-Men movies have memorable action scenes, the final battle in the Incredible Hulk slipped my mind completely, Superman Returns... wait, what action scenes did that have? lol...

As action packed as the Avengers was, none of the fights were as iconic as the train battle in Spider-Man 2. Best action scene in comic book movie history in my opinion.

[henzINNIT]

Originally Posted by Picard Sisko

I actually do agree with you on that. None of the X-Men movies have memorable action scenes, the final battle in the Incredible Hulk slipped my mind completely, Superman Returns... wait, what action scenes did that have? lol...

As action packed as the Avengers was, none of the fights were as iconic as the train battle in Spider-Man 2. Best action scene in comic book movie history in my opinion.

Disagree on X-Men. The Nightcrawler sequence in X2 is one of the greatest action sequences of all comic book films in my opinion. I liked the Wolverine/Deathstrike fight a lot too.

Disagree on Avengers too. The final battle is just a beast, and there's beats in there for every character. That circling group shot of the team is just pure comic book magic. Fox needs to take note and give the X-Men films a sequence like that somewhen.

[henzINNIT]

Okay so I'm gonna go full fantasy mode and talk about what I'd have liked in other sequels...


Spider-Man 4.

Peter and Gwen have become research assistants for Dr. Connors. They are researching genetic enhancement (for obvious reasons) and with help of TV game hunter Kraven, capture some rare species of reptile to conduct experiments.

Peter and Mary-Jane are back together, and trying to rebuild a more healthy relationship. She is travelling to promote a new movie role, but they regularly meet up for couples' councelling. Peter has bonded more with Gwen, but strictly as friends. He has become a friend of the family and they discuss the Spider-Man phenomenom over dinner.

Dr. Connors is excited by the progress of his research and conducts his ill-fated experiment, unleashing the lizard. Spider-Man finds himself caught in a conflict of interest, trying to protect the city from his mentor-turned monster, but also trying to protect Connors from the police and rectify his condition.

With the public and the police losing faith in Spider-Man's morality, his reputation as a hero starts to sour. Kraven steps forward to launch a highly publicised hunt for this mysterious beast to much praise, but his motives aren't as pure as many think. Conspiring with Jameson, Kraven aims to take down the greatest game of all, the elusive Spider-Man.

Kraven sets traps for his prey, and plans to use Parker as bait, temporarily paralysing him with potent toxins. Parker pleads with Kraven, and tries to convince him that Spider-Man will not come to his rescue. Kraven laughs and reveals that Parker is bait for Lizard, and he has another trap in place for the web crawler.
The Lizard trap is a slow-burner. He'll lure the monster in and contain him with Peter used as food. Kraven will focus on his other plan, to put an innocent in peril and wait for Spider-Man to rush to their rescue. The other person? Gwen Stacy.

Unaware of Spider-Man's true identity, Kraven's plans don't exactly work out. Peter is left in a desperate fight for his life against the Lizard, while Gwen is tragically left to die with no-one to save her.

Spider-Man subdues the Lizard long enough to track down Kraven for a final fight. Kraven is defeated, and exposed to the public along with Jameson. Peter develops a serum to temporarily undo the effects of Connors' tranformation, and the pair discuss what must be done with the Lizard protect the city. Captain Stacy, crushed by his daughters' death, launches a police search for Spider-Man.


...wow that turned out longer than I anticipated.


Anyway, I'd have a 5th and final film tackle longevity. Parker is unsure of his future, being aggressively hunted by Police as Spider-Man, an daunted by his intensifying relationship with Mary Jane and his beloved Aunt May ill in hospital. The Vulture, a high profile criminal once apprehended by Spider-Man, is released on bail and apparently reformed. Sensing the end of his days, he plans to go out in a blaze of glory, taking Spider-Man with him.

[Anno_Domini]

Your biggest flaw is that Connors is a physicist in Raimi's series. Unless that would be the second retcon of the franchise, haha.

[Venom75]

It's too bad that Venom was killed in part 3,or else I'd have him as the main villian in 4. But,with that being said,I would've loved to have seen the Lizard and Black Cat in part 4. Peter and MJ still love each other,but decide to take a break. MJ goes to Europe for a few months to study acting(Kirsten would have a cameo in the film),and while Peter would miss her,he would also get to meet other girls(such as Felicia Hardy). Meanwhile,Peter graduates college while Connors becomes the Lizard.
I think there were ALOT of possibilities with part 4. I don't think the franchise ran out of steam. I think it was more a case of the director ran out of steam. Raimi probably had been working on the Spidey films nonstop since the first one. He needed a break. How else would anyone explain "the Vultress?" Raimi could have let Venom live and used him in 4,or used the Lizard(which is what most expected)or even Mysterio or Scorpion. I would've have liked to have seen at least one more film with him and Tobey,but...it was not to be.

[Picard Sisko]

Originally Posted by henzINNIT

Disagree on X-Men. The Nightcrawler sequence in X2 is one of the greatest action sequences of all comic book films in my opinion. I liked the Wolverine/Deathstrike fight a lot too.

Disagree on Avengers too. The final battle is just a beast, and there's beats in there for every character. That circling group shot of the team is just pure comic book magic. Fox needs to take note and give the X-Men films a sequence like that somewhen.

That is true about Nightcrawler, his attack on the white house was very memorable and exciting. The Wolverine/Deathstrike fight was cool, but I don't know how memorable it was.

The circling shot of the Avengers seemed very corny to me. As the camera pans around them, each character does their pose. I mean it was really cool, but just corny. Gave it that "popcorn" feel to it.

I think in X-Men: The Last Stand they tried to do something where they all line up together before the last battle.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Venom75

It's too bad that Venom was killed in part 3,or else I'd have him as the main villian in 4.

In hindsight whether he lived or died, it wouldn't have mattered as Spider-Man 4 was doomed. I don't think Raimi would have agreed to take on Venom again anyway. He was almost dragged kicking and screaming to use him for SM-3.

[Picard Sisko]

Originally Posted by The Joker

In hindsight whether he lived or died, it wouldn't have mattered as Spider-Man 4 was doomed. I don't think Raimi would have agreed to take on Venom again anyway. He was almost dragged kicking and screaming to use him for SM-3.

I wish Venom was not in SM3 and they saved him for SM4 (doing a back-to-back thing). Oh well.

[Anno_Domini]

I wish Venom and the symbiote wasn't pushed into Raimi's films at all. If the director wanted to use Venom, that should be his choice. He had a plan for Spider-Man 3 which was ruined only because Arad wanted to tend to a villain's fanbase.

[roach]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

I wish Venom and the symbiote wasn't pushed into Raimi's films at all. If the director wanted to use Venom, that should be his choice. He had a plan for Spider-Man 3 which was ruined only because Arad wanted to tend to a villain's fanbase.

well when a franchise becomes big the people in suits like to think it was everything but the creatives that made the franchise great...the same thing happened with Claremont and Marvel over the X-men