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Old 05-30-2012, 05:06 PM   #26
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Default Re: Hank Pym

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Thanks a lot for that man. Really appreciate all that info. Question about his mental illness, did he have that illness when Stan Lee was handlint him or was it just a specific writer who gave him that? Did he and Janet really have a bad relationship from the start or was it just ruined by a specific writer? Cause I really dont know if being a bipolar guy is essential to the character. The only thing Ive read of Pym is the Thor Mighty Avenge. Guest appearance by Langridge and Samnee. He seems to be wholesome and well adjusted person there and he and Janet gets along well in that comic.
The mental illness was not originally apart of the character. That came about under the pen of Roy Thomas, who wrote the story of his first psychotic episode. Basically, massive stress and anxiety combined with his own insecurities and guilt over his robot, Ultron, turning evil and killing people, culminated in him entering a dissociative fugue, which is a fancy way of saying amnesia coupled with a new, adopted persona molded around the circumstances her was in. That was his first bout of mental illness, and it came more or less out of nowhere. The handling of his mental illness didn't start off as being super well explained or realistic (in the original comic it was just "overwork + guilt + wacky chemicals = crazy"), but over the years the diagnosis of bi-polar disorder has sprung up as a means of tying it together in a slightly more realistic fashion (as extreme cases of bi-polar disorder, usually coupled with outside stressors, can and have resulted in dissociative episodes somewhat like the ones Hank has had in real life).

Also, Hank and Janet didn't have a bad relationship from the start and I think it's important to stress that their relationship is not an example of domestic abuse as it is classified. He struck her exactly once during a mental breakdown where he would have struck anyone who had been near him at the time. It was never an issue of power or dominance, and his grasp of reality was tenuous at best at the time. The reason for their rocky relationship since then, despite his full recovery and her forgiving him for it, is really just because it's just this awkward thing hanging between them and Hank, to a degree, won't allow himself to forget it happened.

Him being a wholesome guy who cared very deeply about his wife is a huge part of whop he is and it's who he was from the start. But his struggle with mental illness, while not originally apart of who he was, has become apart of who he was and is part of what makes him distinct. He's a guy who has days where he'd rather lie in bed until he dies instead of face the world, but he does it anyway. He has this feeling, deep inside, which he can't control, that what he does isn't ever good enough, that he's not anything special, that he's always alone. No matter how big he may get as Giant Man, he always feels small, which is why he's probably more comfortable as Ant-Man, because when he's tiny he can hide and be clever and not be exposed to the world. But with the exception of the two aforementioned episodes (which were under very extreme circumstances involving explosions and killer robots), he isn't crippled by these feelings. Even after this stuff happened to him, he's almost always drawn in the comics smiling. He goes about his day, he sees his friends, he lives his life and he does great works, but he's always carrying this weight along the way. There's always this hint of despair. And dealing with that, living in spite of it, is part of what motivates him. Personally, I think it makes him very interesting and kind of sad, but in a good way as far as stories are concerned.

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Old 05-30-2012, 05:15 PM   #27
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Default Re: Hank Pym

Also, pretty much all of his serious mental problems came about after Ultron. Ultron, being the artificial intelligence he created based on his own personality that turned evil and tried to murder him and take Janet as his wife, killing a whole bunch of innocent people in the process. Before Ultron, Hank was a wholesome, stoic, idealistic scientist with a tendency towards depression and low self esteem who wasn't super comfortable with being a super hero and had a hard time expressing himself or relating people. The fact that his "son" who's personality was based on his grew up to be Robot-Hitler didn't really help the self esteem problems and added on about a solid metric ton of guilt. His two psychotic episodes happened after that, and were a result of his guilt eating away at him and the new, impossibly high standards he put on himself to deal with said guilt.

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Old 05-30-2012, 07:27 PM   #28
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Default Re: Hank Pym

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Also, pretty much all of his serious mental problems came about after Ultron. Ultron, being the artificial intelligence he created based on his own personality that turned evil and tried to murder him and take Janet as his wife, killing a whole bunch of innocent people in the process. Before Ultron, Hank was a wholesome, stoic, idealistic scientist with a tendency towards depression and low self esteem who wasn't super comfortable with being a super hero and had a hard time expressing himself or relating people. The fact that his "son" who's personality was based on his grew up to be Robot-Hitler didn't really help the self esteem problems and added on about a solid metric ton of guilt. His two psychotic episodes happened after that, and were a result of his guilt eating away at him and the new, impossibly high standards he put on himself to deal with said guilt.
I like that bolded part a lot. That's all we need to see in the Avengers or his solo movie. I don't think we need to see him being diagnosed as having a mental illness or hitting his wife to show his personality. I hope we get a new ongoing series starring Hank Pym so I could learn more about the character. And I hope it's the Ant-Man identity. I'm definitely interested with this character.

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Old 05-30-2012, 07:46 PM   #29
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Default Re: Hank Pym

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I like that bolded part a lot. That's all we need to see in the Avengers or his solo movie. I don't think we need to see him being diagnosed as having a mental illness or hitting his wife to show his personality. I hope we get a new ongoing series starring Hank Pym so I could learn more about the character. And I hope it's the Ant-Man identity. I'm definitely interested with this character.
Well, again, you really need Ultron to start the ball rolling for his breakdown. I'm all for Hank going crazy because that's a cool story that leads to cool stuff. But Ultron has to come first, and that won't be for a while, so there's no way that's the guy he'll be the first time he shows up.

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Old 05-30-2012, 09:04 PM   #30
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****, I like that call. And make him a Brit, instead of trying to Americanize him. Not all the Marvel heroes have to be from New York City.
he is an american so there wouldn't be any "americanizing".

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Old 05-30-2012, 11:31 PM   #31
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Default Re: Hank Pym

so how often would Hank even have to "giant out"? it would have to be selectively used like the Hulk..

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Old 05-30-2012, 11:34 PM   #32
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so how often would Hank even have to "giant out"? it would have to be selectively used like the Hulk..
in the avengers it would be have to be or whats the point of having the power if hes using it all the time. it would be like cap using his shield for opening bottles and changing the tv station.

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Old 05-30-2012, 11:50 PM   #33
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Default Re: Hank Pym

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The mental illness was not originally apart of the character. That came about under the pen of Roy Thomas, who wrote the story of his first psychotic episode. Basically, massive stress and anxiety combined with his own insecurities and guilt over his robot, Ultron, turning evil and killing people, culminated in him entering a dissociative fugue, which is a fancy way of saying amnesia coupled with a new, adopted persona molded around the circumstances her was in. That was his first bout of mental illness, and it came more or less out of nowhere. The handling of his mental illness didn't start off as being super well explained or realistic (in the original comic it was just "overwork + guilt + wacky chemicals = crazy"), but over the years the diagnosis of bi-polar disorder has sprung up as a means of tying it together in a slightly more realistic fashion (as extreme cases of bi-polar disorder, usually coupled with outside stressors, can and have resulted in dissociative episodes somewhat like the ones Hank has had in real life).

Also, Hank and Janet didn't have a bad relationship from the start and I think it's important to stress that their relationship is not an example of domestic abuse as it is classified. He struck her exactly once during a mental breakdown where he would have struck anyone who had been near him at the time. It was never an issue of power or dominance, and his grasp of reality was tenuous at best at the time. The reason for their rocky relationship since then, despite his full recovery and her forgiving him for it, is really just because it's just this awkward thing hanging between them and Hank, to a degree, won't allow himself to forget it happened.

Him being a wholesome guy who cared very deeply about his wife is a huge part of whop he is and it's who he was from the start. But his struggle with mental illness, while not originally apart of who he was, has become apart of who he was and is part of what makes him distinct. He's a guy who has days where he'd rather lie in bed until he dies instead of face the world, but he does it anyway. He has this feeling, deep inside, which he can't control, that what he does isn't ever good enough, that he's not anything special, that he's always alone. No matter how big he may get as Giant Man, he always feels small, which is why he's probably more comfortable as Ant-Man, because when he's tiny he can hide and be clever and not be exposed to the world. But with the exception of the two aforementioned episodes (which were under very extreme circumstances involving explosions and killer robots), he isn't crippled by these feelings. Even after this stuff happened to him, he's almost always drawn in the comics smiling. He goes about his day, he sees his friends, he lives his life and he does great works, but he's always carrying this weight along the way. There's always this hint of despair. And dealing with that, living in spite of it, is part of what motivates him. Personally, I think it makes him very interesting and kind of sad, but in a good way as far as stories are concerned.
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Also, pretty much all of his serious mental problems came about after Ultron. Ultron, being the artificial intelligence he created based on his own personality that turned evil and tried to murder him and take Janet as his wife, killing a whole bunch of innocent people in the process. Before Ultron, Hank was a wholesome, stoic, idealistic scientist with a tendency towards depression and low self esteem who wasn't super comfortable with being a super hero and had a hard time expressing himself or relating people. The fact that his "son" who's personality was based on his grew up to be Robot-Hitler didn't really help the self esteem problems and added on about a solid metric ton of guilt. His two psychotic episodes happened after that, and were a result of his guilt eating away at him and the new, impossibly high standards he put on himself to deal with said guilt.


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Old 05-31-2012, 02:30 PM   #34
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Default Re: Hank Pym

Simon Baker for Pym, all the way.

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Old 05-31-2012, 05:51 PM   #35
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Simon Baker for Pym, all the way.
nice!

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