The Biggest Question Facing an Avengers Sequel!

[Orphix]

Much discussion takes place about who should be introduced. Which new members? Which new villains? Which new supporting characters??

But the biggest question surely is - Who is going to be left out?

The Avengers did something very remarkable in presenting us with a cohesive film in which every avenger gets some development, some action and a bit of an arc. All the while making sure the overall narrative made sense.

But I don't think this would have been the case had there been one or two more members. It just about got away with it this time and good writing and structure was essential.

But if they do add some others to the roster (which I think they should do keep things fresh) then surely some others must leave?

Will Banner leave early like he does in the comics? Will there be room for SHIELD at all in the sequel?

What do you guys think?

[Angamb]

none will leave.

Marvel wont want that, either the fans.

There are only 6 avengers, adding one or two more wont be so hard, you know?

[R_Hythlodeus]

No one.
SHIELD might not have the screen time and presence it had in the first flick, but I don't think they will do a sequel without them.
There's still plenty of room for additions, now that the origin is out of the way.

[Orphix]

Really? Don't you think that might be a bit of a crush? As soon as you get past seven some characters really start to suffer.

If you take the Dirty Dozen as an example that films is 2hrs 30mins long - and one of the 12 doesn't even make it to the final mission. And when they mention his name you sit there trying to remember what he looked like!!

[Radioactive1980]

I agree it could be a bit of a tight squeeze. I would say drop Black Widow, her performance/onscreen character being the weakest of the team and replace her with Ant-Man/Wasp. This probably won't happen tho cause Scarlett is a big name and Marvel probably like her.

It's a good question tho, I mean if in A2 we have Dr Strange, Ant-Man and Wasp added to the the team and no one leaves, how is everyone going to have a story arc/character development unless the film is 3 hours long?

[Artistsean]

Scarlett's performance is a matter or opinion. I thought she was one of the best characters. A strong female character who wasn't reduced to being a damsel in distress or eye candy. But I am sure her being a big star that even before they saw her performance they signed Scarlett up for at least 3 Avengers movies like the rest.

I think SHIELD might not be there as much, Avengers aren't a government controlled team like in the Ultimates. But I bet Nick Fury will show up. However I am sure marvel signed the entire cast, everyone they could, for at least 3 more Avengers movies. So Chris Evans will return whether he wants to or not. But after their contracts are up I think they will leave. Thats why I think to keep the Avengers franchise going they MUST bring in new characters in 2 and 3. In 2 they could bring in Hank Pym and Wasp. They could be side characters like Hawkeye and Black Widow, and then focused on more in later films. Then in Avengers 3 you could bring in another character like Black Panther. So when Avengers 3 is over and the original cast of Cap, Iron Man, BW, Hawkeye, Hulk, Thor, Fury, leave you still have Ant Man and Wasp and maybe Black Panther.
So then they can bring in new Avengers like Ms. Marvel, Wonder Man, Vision, She-Hulk, Hercules, etc.
And sign them up for at least 3 Avengers movies in their contract as well as at least 3 solo films.
But around Avengers 5 or 6 Ant Man, Wasp, and Black Panther will leave because their contract is up. So then you bring in about 3 Avengers to replace them, Hercules, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Luke Cage, Tigra or even Spider-Woman.
(Just naming a few examples to show that there are enough to fill out several movies.)

I think the Avengers movies (if they stagger the roster so that the audience gets at least 2 or 3 Avengers they already know from the previous movies) could go on for a long time.

The only problem with this idea would be if Marvel's Avengers movies go from Loki and an alien invasion to Thanos and then beyond Thanos. You can't make the movies bigger and bigger and bigger and then its too big and you can't have them face a threat like Absorbing Man or Kang the Conquerer after facing a massive threat like Thanos and his army. Plus you couldn't keep that level of danger going for ever. That to me seems like a three movie franchise.

But I do hope they find a way to do this, then we could get all the Avengers heroes and enemies we want to see on the big screen.

[Radioactive1980]

Originally Posted by Artistsean

Scarlett's performance is a matter or opinion. I thought she was one of the best characters. A strong female character who wasn't reduced to being a damsel in distress or eye candy.

The problem I have with her is she can't act. She is the same in every film. Just a blank canvas really. Barely even makes any facial expressions. The fight scene at the beginning of Avengers was cool, but I think she's a wasted space on the team. Just because she was not sidelined as eye candy and instead fought on the team does not mean Scarlett was good in it. Like you say it's all just opinions, but she's just so meh, in an acting sense.

Originally Posted by Artistsean

So Chris Evans will return whether he wants to or not.

What?
Has he alluded that he does not want to do anymore Cap/Avengers?
He's perfect in the role.

[Artistsean]

Originally Posted by Radioactive1980

The problem I have with her is she can't act. She is the same in every film. Just a blank canvas really. Barely even makes any facial expressions. The fight scene at the beginning of Avengers was cool, but I think she's a wasted space on the team. Just because she was not sidelined as eye candy and instead fought on the team does not mean Scarlett was good in it. Like you say it's all just opinions, but she's just so meh, in an acting sense.

I thought she was great in Avengers. It made me like her as an actress. You really think that Loki is scaring her and then bam she turns around and is back to normal and she was manipulating him into stuff. You could tell she was an experienced agent but had times she felt in over her head. But like I said its a matter of opinion, everyone is entitled to theirs. Mine is that I thought she was great in it, the part her character payed and her acting. But I am sure that she is signed up for more Avengers in her contract (even before filming started).

Originally Posted by Radioactive1980

What?
Has he alluded that he does not want to do anymore Cap/Avengers?
He's perfect in the role.

I heard from my sister (who saw it on the View) that he was never interested in playing Captain America or the Avengers. He was told by RDJ that it would be good for his career so he agreed. And they asked if he would return for Avengers 2 and he said he is signed up for Avengers 2 so he is returning because he has to, its in his contract.
I am sure he will do his very best like he did in Captain America and the Avengers, I thought he was great. But he probably wants to do more indy type stuff, less big budget or popular stuff. So I am sure once his contract is up and he has done 3 Cap films, and 3 Avengers films he will most likely be out of there so he can do other movies.


Also, to keep the franchise steam going, like how Avengers 1 had the build up from Iron Man, then Thor, then Captain America, then finally the Avengers,
they could have more build up with Ant Man and the Wasp in their own movie and also Iron Man 3, Thor 2, and Captain America 2, and then finally Avengers 2.

And if they do the AKA tv show they could bring Jessica Drew and Luke Cage from that series into the Avengers movies at some point, just like Ms. Marvel was scheduled to make a cameo on the AKA show. Just have the AKA show be part of the Avengers universe. = More build up.

[Hawkingbird]

I doubt anyone will leave for the 2nd one, however maybe in the 3rd...

[DrCosmic]

Originally Posted by Orphix

Much discussion takes place about who should be introduced. Which new members? Which new villains? Which new supporting characters??

But the biggest question surely is - Who is going to be left out?

The Avengers did something very remarkable in presenting us with a cohesive film in which every avenger gets some development, some action and a bit of an arc. All the while making sure the overall narrative made sense.

But I don't think this would have been the case had there been one or two more members. It just about got away with it this time and good writing and structure was essential.

But if they do add some others to the roster (which I think they should do keep things fresh) then surely some others must leave?

Will Banner leave early like he does in the comics? Will there be room for SHIELD at all in the sequel?

What do you guys think?

I think you're spot on. The issue is that Avengers basically maximized character development time for a big action movie, and Hawkeye didn't even have a character arc. Adding any other characters takes screen time away from the existing characters. It is a zero sum game.

I feel like the idea that adding more would be easy comes from a lack of understanding how incredible and difficult it was to give us the 6 that we got.

For me personally, I think they can squeeze one more in by a) killing off one of the Avengers late in the film, freeing up 10 minutes of screen time b) cutting down the action in a more personal storyline, making for 10 additional minutes of character development time.

[DrCosmic]

Originally Posted by Radioactive1980

The problem I have with her is she can't act. She is the same in every film. Just a blank canvas really. Barely even makes any facial expressions. The fight scene at the beginning of Avengers was cool, but I think she's a wasted space on the team. Just because she was not sidelined as eye candy and instead fought on the team does not mean Scarlett was good in it. Like you say it's all just opinions, but she's just so meh, in an acting sense.

Whatever your problems with Scarlett, the Black Widow character was awesome, and not only gained fans, but is now entrenched in the mythos. Cutting her out because she doesn't have enough facial expressions would be narratively irresponsible, and not at all consistent with Feige, Marvel Studios, and especially not Joss Whedon's m.o.

[Radioactive1980]

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

Whatever your problems with Scarlett, the Black Widow character was awesome, and not only gained fans, but is now entrenched in the mythos. Cutting her out because she doesn't have enough facial expressions would be narratively irresponsible, and not at all consistent with Feige, Marvel Studios, and especially not Joss Whedon's m.o.

I know all that.
I just think Scarlett was the weakest link and that she is the same in every film.

[Orphix]

I think you're spot on. The issue is that Avengers basically maximized character development time for a big action movie, and Hawkeye didn't even have a character arc. Adding any other characters takes screen time away from the existing characters. It is a zero sum game.

I feel like the idea that adding more would be easy comes from a lack of understanding how incredible and difficult it was to give us the 6 that we got.

For me personally, I think they can squeeze one more in by a) killing off one of the Avengers late in the film, freeing up 10 minutes of screen time b) cutting down the action in a more personal storyline, making for 10 additional minutes of character development time.

I think you're totally right (except the bit about Hawkeye. He does get an arc - its just wafer thin!). And I also think who will be included in The Avengers 2 will be down to how the next set of films leading up to it do and how people react to the characters.

If the sequel is looking for a 2015 release that doesn't give that much time to introduce too many new characters in the forthcoming films. They did it with Hawkeye and Black Widow - will they do the same again? The only 'heroic' character they could have used and didn't was War Machine (unless you count the Warriors 3).

Maybe will get essentially the same faces for Avengers 2?

[Radioactive1980]

^Ant-Man/Wasp will certainly be added to the roster, possibly Dr Strange will help out too if his is the third MS film of 2014.

[DrCosmic]

Ant-Man/Wasp may not even be in the MCU. It's not certain they'll be added to the roster. Also, the third movie, Dr. Strange is described as 'outside of the Avengers world' by Feige. Which makes sense. He's one character that it makes perfect sense to not be available when the world is about to end... he's in another dimension half the time, right?

Orphix, I think you're on the right track. They might get in another Hawkeye and Widow, perhaps (Carol Danvers in Cap 2? Vision in IM3?? Sersi in Thor 2???), but likely the sequel will center on these same characters, and delve even deeper into them. Then for the threequel, have some new characters introduced and give them Hawkeye-sized arcs so that the next trilogy will already have some interest and not feel like a total restart when some actors choose not to continue.

That said, it *would* be totally cool if War Machine, the Warriors Three and Thunderbolt Ross showed up in the sequel to kick butt and take names.

[Jake Cassidy]

^ & Sif

[Orphix]

Ant-Man/Wasp may not even be in the MCU. It's not certain they'll be added to the roster. Also, the third movie, Dr. Strange is described as 'outside of the Avengers world' by Feige. Which makes sense. He's one character that it makes perfect sense to not be available when the world is about to end... he's in another dimension half the time, right?

All I would add to this is that Feige has stated that all their characters will be in the same universe - though whether they become Avengers is very much a different question.

I have a suspicion that that is one of the reason Antman has taken so long to develop - because originally they Marvel Studios wanted a film and then they actually wanted it as part of the MCU. I also think I remember Edgar Wright a while ago stating something to that effect.

When it comes to forming The Avengers a second time around I also believe the popularity of individual characters will play an important role. That should mean Stark, Banner and Thor should be safe - Barton, Fury Hill, Rhodes less so.

[R_Hythlodeus]

Originally Posted by Radioactive1980

I just think Scarlett was the weakest link and that she is the same in every film.

You obviously haven't seen much of her. I know it's hard to focus on her facial expressions, when there are other things you ...erm can watch. But I suggest you should at least try it once. She's a great actress.

[Radioactive1980]

Originally Posted by R_Hythlodeus

You obviously haven't seen much of her. I know it's hard to focus on her facial expressions, when there are other things you ...erm can watch. But I suggest you should at least try it once. She's a great actress.

Try what once? I've seen plenty of her films and she is the same in all of them. She has one style of acting which is basically to execute a sorta quiet, introverted, nothingness and she does that in every film. She didn't detract from the movie for me, but she is a crap actress imo and the weakest link in the cast.

[Silvermoth]

I liked her in 'Lost in Translation' and she was great in the Avengers but I think too often people want her to be Scarlett Johannsen rather than an actress.

I do want her back in a sequel though. I can stand to loose Hawkeye though

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by Radioactive1980

^Ant-Man/Wasp will certainly be added to the roster, possibly Dr Strange will help out too if his is the third MS film of 2014.

It won't be Doctor Strange. The 2014 movies are Cap 2, Ant-Man, and Guardians of the Galaxy. Remember, i said it first

[Radioactive1980]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

It won't be Doctor Strange. The 2014 movies are Cap 2, Ant-Man, and Guardians of the Galaxy. Remember, i said it first

That's what I originally thought, but a lot of people round here think it will be Strange instead of GOTG. No one knows at this point which one it will be.

But I do know 2014 is going to be the biggest year yet for cb movies.
Aside from Cap2, Ant-Man & the third MS film, we'll have 'The Spectacular Spider-Man' (remember I said it first), X-Men second class & Kick Ass 2.

[chamber-music]

I think they could add two or three new Avengers without overwhelming the audience.
If the new characters are Ant-Man, Wasp or Black Panther and they get their own movies before Avengers two they won't need any character set up either.

[ThatDamnNinja]

I think they drop Thor. He didn't really have much of a dynamic with the other characters—the presence of Loki, and his relationship with Loki, was all that really justified his presence from a character/narrative perspective in the first movie. With Loki out of the picture, there's not much reason to bring him back, especially when they could make space for characters like Ant-Man, Black Panther, and Ms. Marvel.