Love Interest for Captain America II

[BullMcGiveny]

Originally Posted by xeno000

Ditto that, with an side order of pathetic on Steve's part. There are what, 3 billion women in the world and he hooks up with the only one who happens to be related to his long-lost love? We all know that Steve is somewhat socially inept; that's part of his charm. But is he so hopeless and messed up that he has to latch onto Peggy's niece? Since Steve is not a douche and not a hopeless loser I think that the writers should steer clear of the Sharon mess unless they decide to make her entirely unrelated to Peggy.


Emotional health lies elsewhere, whether Steve ends up single or dates CuteBlondeWaitress from The Avengers. Or Bernie Rosenberg or an original character developed for the films. But not Diamondback because that was just as weird and messed up in its own way.


Anyone who doesn't think that a Steve/Sharon relationship would come across as at least somewhat twisted should read up on Peter Bogdanovich, who married his murdered girlfriend's younger sister. The Ick Factor can be pretty strong in situations like that. Not to mention the Sick Factor.

Once again, he didn't know the two were related when they first started dating.

Also you assume that Steve could only be interested in Sharon because she's related to/looks like Peggy.

Couldn't Steve just not like Sharon initially, but later (as in the 3rd movie) come to be interested in her?

[BullMcGiveny]

Originally Posted by SnuffTheRooster

I don't see how people can't see anything wrong with that whole scenario... Are you really that depraved?

On face value, it looks bad. Yes. It looks bad in the silver age comics, because a whole lot of stuff back then looked bad.

If tackled the wrong way - which is to say Steve meets Sharon and is instantly smitten - it will look bad.

If they tackle it the right way, it won't.

Sharon is someone who isn't related. That's all the justification one needs to date some else. The fact that Steve was once interested in someone she's related to but never actually dated/made love to/married is irrelevant. It's only wrong is he's dating her BECAUSE she's related to Peggy.

[BullMcGiveny]

However, if they're going to change her so she's not related to Peggy, here's a proposition;

Sharon Coulson?

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by SnuffTheRooster

I don't see how people can't see anything wrong with that whole scenario... Are you really that depraved?

"Depraved?"
How the hell so?
Incest is depraved. Dating the grand niece of a long dead woman you never even kissed (let alone anything further) seventy years ago doesn't even *begin* to approach incest, or anything else forbidden by Leviticus or other books of morality.

[marcvader]

Mm, they did kiss but I agree with you but the sanctimony here is ridiculous.

[Hawkingbird]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Didn't think about that, but now that you mention it, I wonder if Marvel has plans for her. Seemed to be a fairly "important" role for just a waitress who gets saved by Cap....(incidentally, there seems to be a deleted scene or two here --- I think there may have been a bigger sequence between her and Cap that was left on the cutting room floor).

I think it would be good if she was Sharon Carter undercover!

[M-2]

You guys do realize that Sharon suppose to be the splitting image of Peggy, so If Sharon is added then Hayley should just play her with an American accent and different her style....

But I Think this Sharon relationship is just Weird!!! Is Cap just inlove with her because she reminds him of Peggy?!? I know it's been in the comics for a long time but maybe they should take it in a different direction for the film....

[marcvader]

Good lord, people how about he falls in love with her over time not instantly. Has it ever occurred to some of you that this relationship can develop over time on and not instantaneously?

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by marcvader

Good lord, people how about he falls in love with her over time not instantly. Has it ever occurred to some of you that this relationship can develop over time on and not instantaneously?

Seriously. I fail to understand why people can't grasp a simple concept:

1) Steve Rogers & Peggy Carter start dating each other in WWII. They never consummate their relationship, but Steve promises her a dance.
2) Never gets a chance. He's too busy sacrificing himself to save the nation, and he apparently dies a hero's death over frozen waters.
3) Peggy moves on with her life, and dies peacefully of old age sometime thereafter.
4) Peggy's grand-niece, Sharon Carter, grows up enthralled by her great aunt's thrilling stories about espionage, WWII, and her doomed relationship with Captain America, the First Avenger. She goes on to become a secret agent herself with SHIELD, following in Peggy's footsteps.
5) Meanwhile, SHIELD discovers Steve's body in the arctic, thaws him, and he resumes his superhero career and leads the Avengers to victory over the Chitauri invasion.
6) Sharon Carter hears about all this, of course, and goes out of her way to arrange a meeting with Captain America.
7) They share stories about Peggy, and maybe cry on each other's shoulders about her passing; even though there's a big difference between their perceptions of how much time has passed.
8) Steve can't help but be reminded of how much Sharon looks like Peggy.
9) They team up and work together on various missions, and become fast friends.
10) Friendship develops into something deeper, and they fall in love.

What's so hard to figure out? And where does the "ick" factor come into play in that story? Really, you guys are making mountains out of molehills. General audiences won't have any problem with this at all.

[DrCosmic]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

So he's not allowed to fall in love with a woman who happens to be related to the long-dead woman he once kinda-sorta *almost* slept with 70 years ago....? Sorry, but horseXXXX.

1) There was *nothing* consummated between him and Peggy;
2) It was 70 freakin' years ago, and she's long dead (or should be by now);
3) it's natural that Steve and Sharon would meet, since Sharon would be extremely curious to hear stories of the famous Captain America, the man her aunt always used to tell her about;
4) it's natural that Steve would fall in love with her;
5) it's natural that Sharon would fall in love with him.

It's a great love story. And utterly unique, because of the gulf of time separating the principals. There's nothing douchey about the (potential) MCU version of the story; only the comic book version, where Cap was banging *both* of them.

See how you try to make it seem like a coincidence, then try to make it seem like it would naturally happen? You may also notice you skipped over the emotional subtext that I kept going on about trying to focus on some irrelevant consummation. The issue is not that they were together, but that Steve still loves her, so getting a substitute her is utter douchebaggery.

Originally Posted by BullMcGiveny

Then in the third movie, have them fall in love toward the end.

And I think Hayley Atwell should play her. Her resemblance to Peggy is pretty important, it is her resemblance to Peggy that makes him notice her in her first appearance as she's walking down the street, undercover. He only learns they're related much, much later in the comics. and to have some other actress, be she Cornish, Righetti or whoever referred to as resembling Peggy makes it look creepier, not less.

Otherwise just nix the familial relationship altogether. Carter is a pretty common name, so it could just be an odd, awkward and uncomfortable coincidence, or alternatively, call her Sharon Ferguson or give her some other last name.

Hmmm... interesting. Spreading out the love story does make it potentially not douchey. I don't think Sharon, or her relationship with Steve is interesting enough to warrant such a sprawling multi-movie arc, but eh, go fig.

I also agree that having Haley play Sharon makes it less douchey.

Originally Posted by marcvader

Good lord, people how about he falls in love with her over time not instantly. Has it ever occurred to some of you that this relationship can develop over time on and not instantaneously?

In action movies, relationships do develop instantly. They don't devote much time to the love story in a superhero film, unless the love interest is also the sidekick and they have time to work out any initial conflicts before paying off the big kiss or similar relationship moment.

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Seriously. I fail to understand why people can't grasp a simple concept:

1) Steve Rogers & Peggy Carter start dating each other in WWII. They never consummate their relationship, but Steve promises her a dance.
2) Never gets a chance. He's too busy sacrificing himself to save the nation, and he apparently dies a hero's death over frozen waters.
3) Peggy moves on with her life, and dies peacefully of old age sometime thereafter.
4) Peggy's grand-niece, Sharon Carter, grows up enthralled by her great aunt's thrilling stories about espionage, WWII, and her doomed relationship with Captain America, the First Avenger. She goes on to become a secret agent herself with SHIELD, following in Peggy's footsteps.
5) Meanwhile, SHIELD discovers Steve's body in the arctic, thaws him, and he resumes his superhero career and leads the Avengers to victory over the Chitauri invasion.
6) Sharon Carter hears about all this, of course, and goes out of her way to arrange a meeting with Captain America.
7) They share stories about Peggy, and maybe cry on each other's shoulders about her passing; even though there's a big difference between their perceptions of how much time has passed.
8) Steve can't help but be reminded of how much Sharon looks like Peggy.
9) They team up and work together on various missions, and become fast friends.
10) Friendship develops into something deeper, and they fall in love.

What's so hard to figure out? And where does the "ick" factor come into play in that story? Really, you guys are making mountains out of molehills. General audiences won't have any problem with this at all.

... ten extended bullet points is not a simple concept. It's a full story. We are familiar with the series of events, but the subtext in those actions is... grimy. There's hero worship which turns into emotional intimacy over commiseration, and then in the face of that loss, Steve sees 'a new Peggy' and then develops a relationship with her, that soon (how many missions you think they'll fit in a movie?) turns romantic. After all, how long can two attractive young people remain just friends without either wanting more? In movies even less time.

Also... this is the love interest for Cap 2 thread... if you want Sharon Carter as the love interest for Cap 3, as many of your are describing, perhaps we should talk about the love interest for Cap 2 then.

This Bernie Rosenthal character is growing on me though, quickly. I'm feeling the love triangle, which would also effectively undermine the subtext that Steve is just replacing Peggy, that he's very capable of getting with someone very different emotionally, but he just might choose not to.

Originally Posted by SnuffTheRooster

I don't see how people can't see anything wrong with that whole scenario... Are you really that depraved?

Comics can mess up your perception of reality. If you've been reading about a given depravity for 30 years and its always been portrayed as normal and healthy and rational, then you lose the ability to realize what it really is.

[DrCosmic]

Originally Posted by Majik1387

When you look at it in an immature way like that, of course it sounds bad.

Is there any other way to look at it? If she reminds me of my unavailable ex, and I fall for her, how does the resemblance not play a part major in that?

[marcvader]

But he doesnt fall for her instantly. It grows organically over time. Guess what thats how it happened in First Avenger too.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

See how you try to make it seem like a coincidence, then try to make it seem like it would naturally happen? You may also notice you skipped over the emotional subtext that I kept going on about trying to focus on some irrelevant consummation. The issue is not that they were together, but that Steve still loves her, so getting a substitute her is utter douchebaggery.

So the essential 90-year old virgin (as posters here like to joke) is *supposed* to remain celibate and virginal....for his long-dead soulmate....?

Dude, please. Steve's heart is gonna be broken realizing that Peggy is dead and he never got that chance to dance with her; but he's also a realistic human being. He realizes the woman is dead & gone now, and he's going to *have* to move on.

So who should we hook him up with, then....? Some chick in a bar, or on match.com? Or maybe instead: a beautiful woman who works with him on a daily basis; a beautiful woman who's the spitting image of Peggy Carter; a beautiful woman who, in fact, is a descendant of Peggy Carter; a beautiful woman who already idolizes Captain America and everything he stands for.....?

Hm. Decisions, decisions

[Scarilian]

Originally Posted by Blackman

Who do you think the love interest of Captain American should/will be?

Sharon Carter as in the 616 universe

Janet van Dyne (Wasp) like in some of the Ultimate Universe

or who?

Apparently the female waitress in 'The Avengers' was supposed to have a much larger role so i presume they were trying to set her up as a love interest. Then again, i`ld prefer Captain America 2 to focus on the 'Winter soldier' and his old love interest, i`ld like to see some closure on that.

[Webfoot Hero]

Originally Posted by Scarilian

Apparently the female waitress in 'The Avengers' was supposed to have a much larger role so i presume they were trying to set her up as a love interest. Then again, i`ld prefer Captain America 2 to focus on the 'Winter soldier' and his old love interest, i`ld like to see some closure on that.

She was just a waitress at a restaurant he ate at (which was cut out) and saw him again without his mask during the NYC battle. She didn't have that big of a part in the movie.

[Radioactive1980]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Seriously. I fail to understand why people can't grasp a simple concept:

1) Steve Rogers & Peggy Carter start dating each other in WWII. They never consummate their relationship, but Steve promises her a dance.
2) Never gets a chance. He's too busy sacrificing himself to save the nation, and he apparently dies a hero's death over frozen waters.
3) Peggy moves on with her life, and dies peacefully of old age sometime thereafter.
4) Peggy's grand-niece, Sharon Carter, grows up enthralled by her great aunt's thrilling stories about espionage, WWII, and her doomed relationship with Captain America, the First Avenger. She goes on to become a secret agent herself with SHIELD, following in Peggy's footsteps.
5) Meanwhile, SHIELD discovers Steve's body in the arctic, thaws him, and he resumes his superhero career and leads the Avengers to victory over the Chitauri invasion.
6) Sharon Carter hears about all this, of course, and goes out of her way to arrange a meeting with Captain America.
7) They share stories about Peggy, and maybe cry on each other's shoulders about her passing; even though there's a big difference between their perceptions of how much time has passed.
8) Steve can't help but be reminded of how much Sharon looks like Peggy.
9) They team up and work together on various missions, and become fast friends.
10) Friendship develops into something deeper, and they fall in love.

What's so hard to figure out? And where does the "ick" factor come into play in that story? Really, you guys are making mountains out of molehills. General audiences won't have any problem with this at all.

It's so lame and contrived tho, not to mention creepy and weird.
And what would be the point?
She would always play second fiddle to Peggy in Steve's mind.

Look, Hayley Atwell was AWESOME but Cap & Peggy were two ships that passed in the night and now she's dead. Time to get over it fanboys. CAII needs an all new love interest, a fresh start and all that. Not a woman that will constantly remind him of a lost love, sheesh!

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by Radioactive1980

It's so lame and contrived tho, not to mention creepy and weird.
And what would be the point?
She would always play second fiddle to Peggy in Steve's mind.

Look, Hayley Atwell was AWESOME but Cap & Peggy were two ships that passed in the night and now she's dead. Time to get over it fanboys. CAII needs an all new love interest, a fresh start and all that. Not a woman that will constantly remind him of a lost love, sheesh!

Cap's ENTIRE career has been based on being constantly reminded (usually physically) of everything and everyone he lost in WWII. Why would anyone expect things to change in the movies....?

[M-2]

Originally Posted by Radioactive1980

It's so lame and contrived tho, not to mention creepy and weird.
And what would be the point?
She would always play second fiddle to Peggy in Steve's mind.

Look, Hayley Atwell was AWESOME but Cap & Peggy were two ships that passed in the night and now she's dead. Time to get over it fanboys. CAII needs an all new love interest, a fresh start and all that. Not a woman that will constantly remind him of a lost love, sheesh!

Agreed! I see the Marvel Cinematic Universe as just another iteration too these characters. In the comics we have the Normal continuity, Ultimates, Earth-X etc...

So i don't see why they can't change certain things for the films. Sharon and Caps relationship, might of been accepted by the larger comic book audience, but will it be accepted by General Audiences??

At the end of the day, people will always see Peggy as Cap's first love. Peggy doesn't even get married after Cap, or get children, was She waiting for Cap all these years?? If she is alive she would want cap to move on, but i doubt she would be happy if he is with her niece...

If they do decide to go with Sharon they should make her totally DIFFERENT to Peggy, Cap shouldn't be reminded about Peggy when he looks, speaks or is on a mission with Sharon... There dynamic should be totally different...and Not just have Sharon come through as a modern day Peggy.

But Family dating another family members ex... is just a NO NO!! Maybe its a culture thing, but that wouldn't fly down well here in South Africa

[Radioactive1980]

Originally Posted by M-2

Agreed! I see the Marvel Cinematic Universe as just another iteration too these characters. In the comics we have the Normal continuity, Ultimates, Earth-X etc...

So i don't see why they can't change certain things for the films. Sharon and Caps relationship, might of been accepted by the larger comic book audience, but will it be accepted by General Audiences??

At the end of the day, people will always see Peggy as Cap's first love. Peggy doesn't even get married after Cap, or get children, was She waiting for Cap all these years?? If she is alive she would want cap to move on, but i doubt she would be happy if he is with her niece...

If they do decide to go with Sharon they should make her totally DIFFERENT to Peggy, Cap shouldn't be reminded about Peggy when he looks, speaks or is on a mission with Sharon... There dynamic should be totally different...and Not just have Sharon come through as a modern day Peggy.

But Family dating another family members ex... is just a NO NO!! Maybe its a culture thing, but that wouldn't fly down well here in South Africa

Good point didn't even think of that one, and no it's not just a South African thing.

[BullMcGiveny]

Originally Posted by M-2

Peggy doesn't even get married after Cap, or get children, was She waiting for Cap all these years?? If she is alive she would want cap to move on, but i doubt she would be happy if he is with her niece...

Where did you get that information?

[BullMcGiveny]

I firmly believe that it could be done without it being creepy, but many seems to reject her on principal.

So how about this; make her Phil Coulson's daughter instead?

[Majik1387]

Because that's retarded. Coulson is dead, and rewriting a character's relation to a separate character to have him live on is as stupid as turning him into the Vision or having him be an LMD.

[BullMcGiveny]

Originally Posted by Majik1387

Because that's retarded. Coulson is dead, and rewriting a character's relation to a separate character to have him live on is as stupid as turning him into the Vision or having him be an LMD.

Eh, who said anything about doing to let Coulson live on?

[Majik1387]

There's no other reason to change Sharon from Carter to Coulson.

[BullMcGiveny]

Originally Posted by Majik1387

There's no other reason to change Sharon from Carter to Coulson.

Well, as I said, it's because it's becoming clear that no one is going to buy Steve dating a Carter girl as something healthy.

They can make her Sharon [whatever last name], but making her Coulson's daughter preserves the influenced-by-someones-admiration-for-Captain-America part.