BEWARE Spoilers: 11.2 - DETECTIVE - Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

[Llama_Shepherd]

Oh, wow really?














Good.

[Dangerman]

And this is is why SV fans and show have the rep it does. No disrespect I liked the show but when it came to adding new heroes they always went about it the wrong way. Even with Lana they ruined her and Pete for the most part. They had Kara called Supergirl before there even was a Superman making her come first in the public eye.

Really like it not it was a bad call to make Steph Nightwing. If she was Robin that might have went over better but Nightwing is just wrong. You had Dick, Tim, Jason and even Damion to chose from and all would have been better choices. You talk about how this is about SV the show's fans but now that show is off the air and it's life now rest in the hands of the comic readers. The same readers this show has pissed off for the last 6 years. If I were BQM I would be trying to get them involved now and when it comes in 98 place in comic sales that isn't a good sign. I think the comic book is well written because as I said before I liked the show and learned to accept it as it is but if it wants to be a success in the comic world then it will need to make peace with some of the fans and bring in more readers. If it and it's fans can't do that then this may truly be its last season. That's why I get upset by this because it has a great opening arc and really should rank higher but it's rep is what is killing it and this and the new outfit doesn't help.

[Dangerman]

Also to say Steph works as Nightwing because people only know Dick as Robin and don't know who Nightwing is plain dumb. Who is Nightwing on Young Justice (the most popular show of the DCU block)? Dick. Who was Nightwing on The Batman, Batman: TAS? Dick. Who was Nightwing in Teen Titans Go!? Dick. Who is NIghtwing in the comics (the place Smallville Season 11 is now marketing to)? Dick. Dick is iconic to take him out is one thing but to give everything he worked for to someone who never even earned it is another. Do you even know the history of Nightwing and how he got his name and who he even came to before taking that name? This is why Steph should not be called Nightwing. It was like a right of passage between him and two people he saw as father figures (Batman and Superman). All Steph is really remembered for is stealing the Robin suit and Batman taking it away from her. Then almost getting herself killed and then becoming Batgirl where if you blinked you would have missed it. This is why it is a wrong move I get BQM has a special place in his heart for her but that shouldn't cloud your judgement.

[Johnny]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

I think they should use Guy, Kyle or a completely new character as GL.

Nah, Hal all the way! I'm a huge fan of that guy. And I'm close to being unable to picture a GL story without him, especially if it comes to something that's dear to my heart like Smallville. But hey, I'm not gonna start an argument here to avoid ending up like the Stephanie Brown thing lol. I'm just in wait and see mode. Since they got Batman, they can get anyone from now on.

[Johnny]

Originally Posted by Dangerman

Also to say Steph works as Nightwing because people only know Dick as Robin and don't know who Nightwing is plain dumb. Who is Nightwing on Young Justice (the most popular show of the DCU block)? Dick. Who was Nightwing on The Batman, Batman: TAS? Dick. Who was Nightwing in Teen Titans Go!? Dick. Who is NIghtwing in the comics (the place Smallville Season 11 is now marketing to)? Dick. Dick is iconic to take him out is one thing but to give everything he worked for to someone who never even earned it is another. Do you even know the history of Nightwing and how he got his name and who he even came to before taking that name? This is why Steph should not be called Nightwing. It was like a right of passage between him and two people he saw as father figures (Batman and Superman). All Steph is really remembered for is stealing the Robin suit and Batman taking it away from her. Then almost getting herself killed and then becoming Batgirl where if you blinked you would have missed it. This is why it is a wrong move I get BQM has a special place in his heart for her but that shouldn't cloud your judgement.

Oh for god's sake get over yourself. You guys take this stuff way too seriously. This isn't a sign of disrespect to Dick in any way. Again - let's see WHY she is Nightwing and then debate over how bad it is. Million things could've happened, we don't know any of the facts behind it. Any. Ooh, they chose Stephanie over Dick. Blasphemy! Go burn poor Miller on the stake for it. Let's learn some actual info about and decide if we'll condemn it after. Jeez.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Johnny

Nah, Hal all the way! I'm a huge fan of that guy. And I'm close to being unable to picture a GL story without him, especially if it comes to something that's dear to my heart like Smallville. But hey, I'm not gonna start an argument here to avoid ending up like the Stephanie Brown thing lol. I'm just in wait and see mode. Since they got Batman, they can get anyone from now on.

Interesting sidenote is that Scott Porter pleaded to the Smallville producers to be on the show and to play Hal Jordan. He could have pulled it off.

I wonder who the producers would have cast as Batman and Nightwing had they been given the opportunity to use these characters on the series.

Despite me disagreeing with the vast majority of decisions they've made, I have to admit that SV made 9 perfect casting choices throughout it's run. These actors gave performances that did justice to their characters and suited them perfectly. Listed in order of perfection:

1) Michael Rosenbaum as Lex Luthor
2) John Glover as Lionel Luthor
3) Phil Morris as Martian Manhunter
4) Eric Martsolf as Booter Gold
5) John Schneider as Jonathan Kent
6) Annette O'Toole as Martha Kent
7) Kyle Gallner as Bart Allen
8) Callum Blue as Zod
9) James Marsters as Brainiac

Hard to argue with these.

[Webhead2006]

And still we don't know anything of sv world's batman. Plus nothing on stephaine. Like others have said maybe this batman has had other sidekicks, and they are off doing solo thing. Or maybe like sv did with many characters merged aspects/traits of different characters into one new thing. That is why we need to see whole story before we ***** out totally.

And for me sure sv made some silly story/character deals over the yrs. But I still think most character par a few namely pete/lana ended up pretty good characters.

As for rep I really haven't heard anything totally negative on sv book. And across many forums I go too have heard good things same with going to my local comic shops. And sure the print issues may be low on sales charts. But dc is really pushing the whole digital deal. So they probably care a slight bit more on digital sales. And also we have to remember they are getting. 3 digital chapters/full book, and the full physical book profits. So overall they still making money.

[Prison Mike]

Batman better kiss Chloe's feet. If it weren't for her, he wouldn't be there. In fact, I never liked Bruce Wayne as Batman. Chloe would make a much better Batman.

[Dangerman]

Originally Posted by Webhead2006

And still we don't know anything of sv world's batman. Plus nothing on stephaine. Like others have said maybe this batman has had other sidekicks, and they are off doing solo thing. Or maybe like sv did with many characters merged aspects/traits of different characters into one new thing. That is why we need to see whole story before we ***** out totally.

And for me sure sv made some silly story/character deals over the yrs. But I still think most character par a few namely pete/lana ended up pretty good characters.

As for rep I really haven't heard anything totally negative on sv book. And across many forums I go too have heard good things same with going to my local comic shops. And sure the print issues may be low on sales charts. But dc is really pushing the whole digital deal. So they probably care a slight bit more on digital sales. And also we have to remember they are getting. 3 digital chapters/full book, and the full physical book profits. So overall they still making money.

No I am not talking about the rep of the book. I am talking about the shows rep that's what I am talking about. The show has had a reputation on putting off comic fans for years now and not only that Superman fans and now that's where it is being marketed to for it's lifeline and to come in at 96th for an debut issue isn't good for the show it was. As I have said before I enjoyed the show and enjoy the comic but if it wants to be as successful as Buffy use to be then it needs to realize it can't follow the usual Smallville format and has to try and reach out to comic fans as well. That's all I am saying because when the show ran and they started adding more heroes and all you hear people say getting the SV treatment for characters in the comics and show (and that wasn't meant as a good thing). You don't want to start off with your first major hero getting talked about the same way to where people who thought things would be different in the comics see nothing has changed.

[Johnny]

It also had a reputation of turning some viewers into DC fans as well. I hadn't read a single comic before I started watching the show. Now I follow most of their top characters and prefer them much more than Marvel's(to whom I'm still kinda pissed for screwing up Spidey's history), even though after Avengers I'm much more willing to forgive them. Anyway, yes, the debut issue sales weren't good but so far the digital issues are always in the top 10 from what I've seen. They're doing well, I hope in time the print issues would do better as well.

[Prison Mike]

the Smallville comic is more for the fans of the show. I don't think they said yes to the idea with the thinking that they'll get those comic fans who never watched Smallville. I mean that's why they started it as a digital comic rather than print form.

[KalKai]

Dangerman, here's some news for you:

http://www.comiclist.com/index.php/n...-back-to-press

You don't represent the comic world, and neither do some comic book nerds on an internet message board. That's the reality.

[Dangerman]

Originally Posted by KalKai

Dangerman, here's some news for you:

http://www.comiclist.com/index.php/n...-back-to-press

You don't represent the comic world, and neither do some comic book nerds on an internet message board. That's the reality.

And here is all that matters to DC KalKai

Top 100 Comic Book Sales

Go a head and take a look. Books that they have put more effort into and are better received for example JLI, Batwing and All-Star Western, Green Arrow (which is not that far down from SV) have been rumored to be and some already have been canceled. Look at Buffy that is Dark Horse top selling comic. All because you're getting a second print doesn't mean anything JLI has been selling well getting second and third prints and that book is already canceled. And I know I don't represent them but if you listen to most people across the internet the buzz about SV hasn't been good for a while now even during it's final season all people cared about is would he put on the suit and look at how that got blasted for how it was done. I have stated before I am a fan of the show and the book but in the same the book needs to bridge the gap that has left a sour taste in comic fans mouths. You need money for it to continue or for it to be profitable. Once again this DC Comics where they have canceled comics that have been better received than this and sold better including other Superman titles which includes the Smallville comics that came out when the show was popular among both the general audience and comic fan due to low/poor sales (which did get second prints as well as trades). So what makes you think this is anymore special? Because he is in the suit now and being called Superman? This is not TV anymore. They do have to rely on the comic fans as well as the SV fans for this to continue. And I am not trying to be mean or rude I am just speaking reality.

[RavenX]

Originally Posted by Johnny

Oh for god's sake get over yourself. You guys take this stuff way too seriously. This isn't a sign of disrespect to Dick in any way. Again - let's see WHY she is Nightwing and then debate over how bad it is. Million things could've happened, we don't know any of the facts behind it. Any. Ooh, they chose Stephanie over Dick. Blasphemy! Go burn poor Miller on the stake for it. Let's learn some actual info about and decide if we'll condemn it after. Jeez.

yeah...heaven forbid.......let's actually read the story to see why Steph is Nightwing before we all pass judgment.

[Webhead2006]

Just cause it may not be the top seller for a dc book doesn't mean its not doing well enough forr the dc execs. Plus like I pointed out there is the whole digital chapters/full book, and print/digital full figures they are getting money from. Print books sales isn't the be all end all any more.

[Dangerman]

Originally Posted by Webhead2006

Just cause it may not be the top seller for a dc book doesn't mean its not doing well enough forr the dc execs. Plus like I pointed out there is the whole digital chapters/full book, and print/digital full figures they are getting money from. Print books sales isn't the be all end all any more.

Actually yes it does and yes that still is the case for comics. Sorry to break it to you but digital isn't that big yet. It may be one day but for right now as far as comics goes it still is mainly a print media unlike the newspaper. So if it isn't doing well print wise it does speak volumes. Now why is that? Because like movies and CD's you can download it for free if you want to so digital you really don't make to much money on. That's why they are losing money on it if you can go anywhere and download the weekly issue and then to not have the print issues sell well at the same time. Think of it like Superman Returns. Superman Returns for a mostly non action movie brought in over 200 million dom the total box office was over $400 million, DVD's and Blu-Rays sold well and was well like and praised by critics, had a Superman that most of the fans loved and even respect to this day but here is the catcher much like SV it held a mix reaction on fans and they were vocal about. Now WB/DC still were about to go ahead and even went into casting and scouting locations however things change and they felt it didn't do well enough for them. Now if you didn't want to use Superman Returns for that example you could always look at Spider-Man 3 and X3 that were box offices gold but had fans in an outrage as well. Hell if you want to break away from movies look at All-Star Batman and Robin: the boy wonder and see how well that book sold but look at how it turned fans off. Now lets look at this comic it is 96th in it's place (which I hope it did better this month) but once again 96th in its place and it cost money either way to produce this and you have to market to a new fan base now that already has mixed feelings about the show. Tell me what makes SV the comic (series 2 because the first one was canceled as well) any different then say Superman Returns, SM3, X3, Aquaman (who did sell well the other issue with other Aquaman), JLI (which was selling good for a while and still was till it was canceled), Superman: Man of Steel, old Superboy series (before his death in IC) and countless other series that were ranked higher than this long into their run and had higher ranking debut issues? Once again I am not trying to be mean I want this comic to do well but it needs to try and bring in new readers. Not every one who watched SV is going to buy this be it digital or print hell I will bet you only about 15 to 20% of the people who watch the show may buy this at most. I am just saying change the perception on of what comic readers see you as and you'll do better because thats where it's life line draws now. Why do you think the DCAU films are based off of popular comics and are successful with them. I truly believe and hope that this opening arc of SV becomes one of them with the cast coming back to do the voicing but it won't if it doesn't make some try at doing this.

[Webhead2006]

Well also it accounts in how well dc expected the book to do and if its numbers are in a range dc is happy with. As for sr that is not the best example to go with. Oh sure totally sr made nearly 400mill. But it dropped very fast after opening weeks and took its full runs both domestically to get 200mill and 200mill internationally. Same goes with video home sales did well in first week out but dropped fast. Check any sales figure sites.

[Young Superman]

I can't wait to see how Miller handles the Clark and Bruce relationship in the Smallville universe.

P.S I hope we get to see a Alfred and/or James Gordon cameo in this storyline.

[Dangerman]

Originally Posted by Webhead2006

Well also it accounts in how well dc expected the book to do and if its numbers are in a range dc is happy with. As for sr that is not the best example to go with. Oh sure totally sr made nearly 400mill. But it dropped very fast after opening weeks and took its full runs both domestically to get 200mill and 200mill internationally. Same goes with video home sales did well in first week out but dropped fast. Check any sales figure sites.

That's the question how well does DC expect this book to do. As for SR if released one week earlier the drop off wouldn't have been as big and it still reached 200 mil faster than Batman Begins in a shorter period of time and was still a top 10 movie of the year top 5 if you discount Night at the museum. But that's another topic. Anyways I am looking forward to this chapter just playing devil's advocate with you guys.

[Webhead2006]

Its no issue danger, everyone has varied opinions and what not. I was only trrying to help with more facts. But ya for sv comic its all about how well its doing and if its numbers are what dc likes.

As for batman story I too can't wait to see bruce and clark together. And would be sweet for alfrred/gordon nod/mention too.

[RavenX]

so is the Smallville comic an actual comic or just a digital one?

[Dangerman]

Originally Posted by RavenX

so is the Smallville comic an actual comic or just a digital one?

Both

[RavenX]

thanks.

[Webhead2006]

Ya each issue is broken into 3 chapters released each week digitally. Then as a full print comic collecting those chapters and the full book is also avaible for digital too every month.

[vantheman77]

There is an interview with BQM at comic book resources about Batman's appearance in Smallville. According to him, Bruce has been Batman a couple of years longer than Clark being the Blur and is on par with Green Arrow. He may or may not be older than Oliver and Lex.