Webbing formula

[Iron_spider]

I thought the STLA prevented things like that from happening? Would increasing the pressure solve the problem?

[nolder]

Originally Posted by White_widow

I created a web shooter, pressurized it, and fired water successfully from my wrist.

It turns out however, that the web fluid however is much more difficult. It clogged the fuel line leading to the shooter. Being that it is a gel, it blocks the tube like an artery. When it hardens though, (because I got a few globs to fire) it has all of the properties of webbing except for strength.

What that tells me is that we need to stop focusing on the shooter (now that we have one.) and on the formula, whose viscosity is too thick.

And don't worry. About a year ago, I would have just kept the shooter to myself, but I'll show you guys how to build it.

Awesome. can you upload a vid of it firing? also, because my dad and I are renovating my upstairs apartment, I've found some interesting contruction netting and plastics in the basement. I'm going to try to melt some this weekend

[White_widow]

sharp eye. ^^ I didn't add any STLA to this particular formula, as I didn't have any. I simply used a solvent and a plastic. STLA is the next move.

[megajs]

can you show me what the design of your shooter that got clogged because there may be some simple solutions to fix clogging if you don't have an STLA (im more of an engineer than a scientist)

[nolder]

I don't know alot about chemistry, but I thought of something. wouldn't a webbing fluid that becomes solid when exposed to air, become solid in a web shooter unless it was airtight?
I'm thinking of using 2 fluids to make an epoxy that will be mixed in my webshooter right before I have to use it. I will try to incorporate a mixing device in my web shooter that will mix the 2 fluids, causing a chemical reaction.

[megajs]

be that as it may, there still could be clogging issues regardless of the method and that method could potentially increase the size of the overall shooter.

[White_widow]

the size the shooter is tiny. The pressure tank is the thing that can vary in size. I'll post a video of it shooting water, but I promised one of my best friends I'd show him first. As for the actual formula, it's a mixture of adding pressure, mixing it more, mixing is with a STLA, and adding much more pressure. All we need to do is lower the viscosity.

As for the polymer that reacts with air, that's just unrealistic. We have to pressurize it with air or co2. That's why superglue goes bad that quickly.

Here's the thing that I don't think people get about chemistry. It's not like we can just add a liquid, and that modifies the properties. It's using base properties of materials that we have. Any modifications that involve chemicals changing properties change the entire chemical structure. Those chemical reactions need to be under VERY specific circumstances. Also, the bi-products are super problematic to compensate for.

The reason things like STLA works is because they hold specific properties for liquids and gels only.

The same thing with fibrous reinforcement. They have to be bonded to the actual formula and created in a special way to work. It's not like you just sprinkle it in like a cake. You have to make it in layers.

The reason I bring this up is because so many people say, "why don't we add a strengthener?" I'll ask them for an example, and they'll say, "a polymer". that's not helpful. Neither is fishing line, or polymer, or glue. We have to use what we have, and we have to make it affordable.

In my next post, I'm going to set the absolute minimum standards for how to make the formula work.

[nolder]

Originally Posted by White_widow

the size the shooter is tiny. The pressure tank is the thing that can vary in size. I'll post a video of it shooting water, but I promised one of my best friends I'd show him first. As for the actual formula, it's a mixture of adding pressure, mixing it more, mixing is with a STLA, and adding much more pressure. All we need to do is lower the viscosity.

As for the polymer that reacts with air, that's just unrealistic. We have to pressurize it with air or co2. That's why superglue goes bad that quickly.

Here's the thing that I don't think people get about chemistry. It's not like we can just add a liquid, and that modifies the properties. It's using base properties of materials that we have. Any modifications that involve chemicals changing properties change the entire chemical structure. Those chemical reactions need to be under VERY specific circumstances. Also, the bi-products are super problematic to compensate for.

The reason things like STLA works is because they hold specific properties for liquids and gels only.

The same thing with fibrous reinforcement. They have to be bonded to the actual formula and created in a special way to work. It's not like you just sprinkle it in like a cake. You have to make it in layers.

The reason I bring this up is because so many people say, "why don't we add a strengthener?" I'll ask them for an example, and they'll say, "a polymer". that's not helpful. Neither is fishing line, or polymer, or glue. We have to use what we have, and we have to make it affordable.

In my next post, I'm going to set the absolute minimum standards for how to make the formula work.

I look forward to it!

[White_widow]

ok, so without any glue whatsoever, the polymer that I did manage to fire bonded to cement as strong as any glue. I'm still going to add some rubber, but It proves that we don't need any super glue or amazing new adhesive.

That said, here is what we need for a functional webbing formula. I used to call it the big 3, but I now call it big 4 because styrene is missing one property that makes it unusable. If you can capture all four, then you can stop, because you have webbing. anything else is a benefit.

1.) Tensile strength- must be able to hold at least 50 MPa. That's nylon. Ideally it's 200 MPa, but 50 is the minimum that we need.

2.) selective adhesion- Must bond to materials that you want it to. It must support at least as much weight as it can hold. Ideally it's stronger.

3.) Convenient state change-The material must have the viscosity of water, paint, or ketchup, and then be a full solid. This transition will have to happen quickly.

4.) ductility- the material must be able to be pulled into a wire/fiber that is flexible. This is the only reason we can't use styrofoam.

The part that everyone needs to focus on is the extrusion, as this will give it three of the four properties.

This is an example of extrusion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA0iv99VPvI

watch:22:29-24:39

24:19 to 24:39 is what I'm attempting. You can try the chemical bath process, but realize that your chemical should probably be water or something.

Now watch this clip from 0:20-0:21: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atCfTRMyjGU

Does that thing he's holding not look like a spinneret from the first video? It's exactly what it is.




The web shooter is basically preparing a web solution to fire through a spinneret, and complete the phase change from liquid into solid. THAT IS IT.

The webbing formula is that spinning solution.

The shooter is a pressurized spinneret with a way to harden the solution.

It's really that simple, but it's just a matter of choosing the right solution.

[nolder]

wow. I am thoroughly impressed.

[White_widow]

thank you good sir.

So the formula which we should go for has to be a polymer that can be dissolved. Cellulose, rayons, polyester, and nylons are the only fibers that support enough strength by themselves. Cellulose is difficult to dissolve without harmful materials. The same can be said of nylons.

That leaves polyesters and rayons. We can make Cuprammonium rayon, but it's too dangerous. I think if we decide to go rayon route, we might as well stick with cellulose acetate.

I feel like polyesters have been ignored. If you guys want a stronger polymer, that's where you should look next.

If you guys don't like acetone as a solvent, look into water soluble plastics, but specifically, cold water solvent. Water takes too long to evaporate. That's why PVOH has dropped from the race.

[marco18]

ok, white widow, how hard is this stuff for an 8th grader? i found a good formula (web) to use, its actually pretty easy to make as well. i can post it if you want.

[marco18]

I found it from another forum like this that was posted 7 years ago

[marco18]

formula:
1/3 CA glue (super glue)
1/3 anti adhesive (preserve as liquid)
1/3 regular elmers glue
add small amount of vinegar and salt (to speed reaction when exposed to cold air)

[White_widow]

By a person named leren. Welcome to the forums Marco. I like to keep this whole formula thing as simple as possible, but it depends on what you want. If you want a weapon used to hurt people, or just a unique rubbery glue, leren's is the way to go. If you want to have a strong adhesive or way to trap someone, elastyrene is easy. If you want strength and fiber, then go cellustick. It's what you want that matters.

[marco18]

ok cool. yeah for a couple days i read yiyr posts in the webshooter thread. im actually smart in science, as i know about elements,compunds,mixs,etc but i want to use them for swinging, fighting baddies, and for fun. any tips? im not as experienced as you.

[Ryleyw]

Will some one please help me with the shooter and formula, the formula isnt working and I'm trying to make my shooter small but the value is big and is just a mess>:/

[White_widow]

To Marco: I recommend you find a different project to work on. In the words of Christmas story. "You'll shoot your eye out kid."

To Ryley: Describe what you have, and we can work from there.

[marco18]

well hey, with or without your help, i'll achieve my goal. just because you can do and say that i can't. because im too young? seriously? what kind of help is that?

[Iron_spider]

I think the reason white_widow said that is because of what you what it for, marco18. Trying to swing could give you broken arms or much, much worse.

[nolder]

Originally Posted by marco18

well hey, with or without your help, i'll achieve my goal. just because you can do and say that i can't. because im too young? seriously? what kind of help is that?

Someone needs to take you down a few pegs. With the amount of narcissism you've shown in your posts, you're not going to make a lot of friends. No one is going to help you with that attitude. If my kid acted like you, no wait I don't have to finish that sentence because my kid would NEVER be as self absorbed as you.
The thing is, as far as I know, we're all kids. I'm 19. I believe widow is 17-18. I'm not sure of everyone else's ages but I suspect they're also teenagers. Since we're all young, our knowledge of adhesives and our access to lab equipment is limited. Making an adhesive that can support enough weight for swinging (a person's weight AND G-force) just isn't realistic with materials laying around the house. But you know what, you should find out yourself. Take your Elmer's glue mixture, put it in your webshooter (that you will obviously will build WITHOUT our help), AND JUMP OFF A F'ING BUILDING

[DB_]

Hey, been following the forums a while, I'd just like to thank White Widow for all the help with the formula he's posted. Keep up the good work!

[White_widow]

Woah... I think that what I typed came across wrong. Truly, I did not expect to get that kind of reaction from you Marco. What I said was nothing implying your age, at least not intentionally. As Iron-spider pointed out, it was about the methods you wished to perform with the webbing.

When I mentioned that the web shooters were weapons, I wasn't trying to excite you, but rather to let you know that they are dangerous. A quickly solidifying polymer has the potential to cause issues, especially near the face.

I truly did not mean to offend you, or "start something," but rather tried to get you to think about why I tried to dissuade you. It's because this device, if functional, when pointed at another person's face can KILL them. If not, it has the capacity to blind them for the rest of their lives. That's just the fluid. Forget pressurizing it.

I just want people to know the risk, and someone like you who want to start a mini vigilante day dream need to know that if you are playing around, you might go to jail for horsing around.

That being said, you can still be with us, so long as we don't have anymore outbursts like that.

To DB: Thanks bud, feel free to join us.

[Ryleyw]

Well was gonna use styrene but idkhow to keep it liquid or use a liquid nylon

[AmazinSpiderboy]

Intense comments