EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 2

[marcvader]

National Geographic presents Black Panther

[DrCosmic]

Ugh. It's so silly. Don't go crazy and show any African cities. "Skyscrapers? I thought this was in Africa?"

[marcvader]

I wonder if T'challa will have royal bathers and they'll give us an homage of Coming to America?

[MessiahDecoy123]

I thought District 9 painted a pretty ugly portrait of Nigerians.

But I don't think Marvel would do anything like that.

[marcvader]

I thought it was South Africans.

[RockSP]

Originally Posted by Lightning Strykez!

I just hope they stay away from themes of voodoo or other spiritistic stuff. It's so stereotypical now of films based in Africa. I want to see science and technology be the strength of Wakanda, not mysticism.

There definitely doesn't need to be any voodoo, but The Panther god stuff is spiritistic and I don't see why they would leave it out. They can do both the tech stuff and the Panther Cult stuff...

[MessiahDecoy123]

Originally Posted by marcvader

I thought it was South Africans.

Nope.

Read the "controversy" section.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_9

[E-Man]

Originally Posted by RockSP

There definitely doesn't need to be any voodoo, but The Panther god stuff is spiritistic and I don't see why they would leave it out. They can do both the tech stuff and the Panther Cult stuff...

That's where a good director comes in. The beauty of Wakanda done well is when they can combine both elements without it looking silly. That's why a Black Panther movie needs a director that understands that Wakanda has many facets beyond "mysterious and rich." It's a country where some people are materialist, some are traditional, some are a bit of both, and some people are something different entirely. They all can't just be one type of Wakandan, so they find a way to fit in the various tribal religions in perfectly with the advanced technology.

[marcvader]

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

Nope.

Read the "controversy" section.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_9

Okay, I read it. When you referred to Nigerians being depicted poorly I didn't realize you were referring to a particular character in the film that happens to be a Nigerian. I was thinking, What the hell this movie was based in South Africa and almost all the characters were South African.

[OrangeCloud]

Anyway...

Apparently Raw Leiba met with Marvel to discuss the possibility of playing Killmonger? According to CBM anyway.

I tried linking it, but it didn't work. qq.


Anyone else seen this? Dunno how legit it is or anything.

[DrCosmic]

Yeah, CBM is 'off limits' in some way, so the site probably won't let you link to it. That information, iirc is about five years old, and is almost certainly obsolete by now, as they've gotten a new script since then.

[Raiden]

Hopefully Marvel will give us a clearer picture on their plan for BP in Comic Con, and I think there's still some hope that this will be the second MS movie in 2014.

[The Ironstar]

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

Because it allows the storyteller to expose another side of the hero in a way that is easily accessible by the audience. Every blockbuster action movie has this for the same reason, as well as most dramas. There are ways around it, such as having a story with no women, or making the movie entirely action (thus with shallow characters), or having a sort of non-romantic love between two same sex characters. Generally, to make these good it takes more artistry than 90% of writers have. Generally, writers that are that good are working on their own artsy projects, and not on summer blockbusters and action movies.



This.



You weren't just curious. You specifically and repeatedly suggested he works better as a co-star, simply because you've never read him. You can see how that would really suck for someone who is a fan of a character to hear, right?

Let's help you out then:
Reasons Black Panther is awesome:
1) He's Black. Let's admit it, it's there, and it works. Not only does that make him stand out as unique, but it also brings in all the positive stereotypes associated with black people. He is expected to be a physically capable badass, for instance. It also opens the door for some great actors who haven't gotten a shot at being a superhero before. Chiwetel Ejiofor. Djimon Honsou. Michael Jai White. Adewale Abbaje-Akinouye. Anthony Mackie. To say nothing of young up and comers like Aldis Hodge. Toyanga Chrisi. Michael B. Jordan and so on. With the supporting cast it's even worse when you talk about accomplished actors who have no danger of double dipping because they've never gotten to be in a superhero film before. Oscar winners and mess. Movie poster in the bag.
2) He's a king. This means he has his own country to run, which invites all the political storylines you might be familiar with from James Bond to Enemy of the State to Executive Decision to Air Force One. The President from Independence Day? That's what he does on a day to day basis. Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter? Been there done that, since 1976. This also makes his supporting cast incredible, as it includes things like The President of the United States, his "harem" of ceremonial wives in training, the Dora Milaje, a situation/war room full of people to argue foreign policy while they have their fighter jets scrambling. International incidents. Royal court coups. Pomp and all manner of circumstance. Epic storyline in the bag.
3) He's one of the best hand to hand fighters in the world, on par with Cap, Wolvie, Elektra and the best of the best. Plus, he's got some plant-based superhuman stats. Imagine if Avengers Captain America had MCU Black Widow's fighting agility and skill. That's what Black Panther is on. He's not just peak human (and past peak human in agility) but he knows how to use it better than any other superhuman. With an artistic fighting style based partly on capoeria, his fighting is also unorthodox, which makes him hard to beat on paper, and interesting and exciting to look at on screen. Fight scenes are in the bag.
4) He's got gadgets out the wazoo. Cap's SHIELD is the kind of low-tech thing Wakandans give away to people they like. Their swords cut like lightsabers, their computers are ten years ahead of everyone else's and T'Challa's costume absorbs energy and sound to make him the stealthiest amongst the stealthy, in addition to anything else he invents. Yeah, he does that too, Reed Richards level at times. Geek out moments are in the bag.
5) He's in Africa. Which provides a lot of rich locales ala Blood Diamonds, District 9 and Last King of Scotland. Not to mention when he travels to other nations to handle business. Also, it's cheaper to shoot in Africa, if you can get the crew to go. Cinematography is in the bag.
6) He's got a fair rogue's gallery. Better than Cap or Wonder Woman's, not as good as Spider-Man or Batman's. Ulysses Klaw, his sound-manipulating origin villain tops them off, but a close second is Erik Killmonger, the homegrown mastermind that can actually take T'challa in a fistfight. M'Baka (Man-Ape) is a bit like his venom, the stronger dumber version of himself, basically, also homegrown. Add to this other sundries like the elemental trader Moses Magnum, traitorous brother Hunter, fickle Panther God Bast and all the assorted malcontents that aren't smart enough to run things, but get employed by Klaw and Killmonger from Malice (former fiance of T'Challa) to Rhino (borrowed from Spidey), to Radioactive Man and Baron Macabre. Trilogy's worth of epic climactic battles in the bag.

7) Can they make it exciting, though?



They already know how to make it exciting. They just have to decide to fit it in the schedule and hope people will actually watch instead of guessing out of the blue that he works better as a sidekick.

Great job!! I share this on my FB

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

6) He's got a fair rogue's gallery. Better than Cap or Wonder Woman's, not as good as Spider-Man or Batman's. Ulysses Klaw, his sound-manipulating origin villain tops them off, but a close second is Erik Killmonger, the homegrown mastermind that can actually take T'challa in a fistfight. M'Baka (Man-Ape) is a bit like his venom, the stronger dumber version of himself, basically, also homegrown. Add to this other sundries like the elemental trader Moses Magnum, traitorous brother Hunter, fickle Panther God Bast and all the assorted malcontents that aren't smart enough to run things, but get employed by Klaw and Killmonger from Malice (former fiance of T'Challa) to Rhino (borrowed from Spidey), to Radioactive Man and Baron Macabre. Trilogy's worth of epic climactic battles in the bag.

I agreed with everything you said until this. Black Panther in my eyes would struggle to get to a trilogy where as with Cap, I can think of 4-5 potential movies. Cap has a much stronger rogues gallery.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by KangConquers

I agreed with everything you said until this. Black Panther in my eyes would struggle to get to a trilogy where as with Cap, I can think of 4-5 potential movies. Cap has a much stronger rogues gallery.

Look, if Iron Man can become the mainstay of Marvel Studios films with the crap-ass rogues' gallery *he's* got, then EVERYONE is fair game.

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Look, if Iron Man can become the mainstay of Marvel Studios films with the crap-ass rogues' gallery *he's* got, then EVERYONE is fair game.

True. I was calling into question Dr. Cosmic saying that Black Panther has a better rogues gallery than Captain America, which imo, is patently untrue.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by KangConquers

True. I was calling into question Dr. Cosmic saying that Black Panther has a better rogues gallery than Captain America, which imo, is patently untrue.

Klaw, Man-Ape, Killmonger, White Wolf, Kiber the Cruel, Reverend "Dumbo Ears" Achebe....vs. Red Skull, Baron Zemo, Crossbones, Arnim Zola, HYDRA, Viper, AIM, MODOK, Serpent Squad/Society, Winter Soldier, even Batroc Zee Leapairrr....

...yeah, agreed, not even close.

[The Overlord]

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

6) He's got a fair rogue's gallery. Better than Cap or Wonder Woman's, not as good as Spider-Man or Batman's. Ulysses Klaw, his sound-manipulating origin villain tops them off, but a close second is Erik Killmonger, the homegrown mastermind that can actually take T'challa in a fistfight. M'Baka (Man-Ape) is a bit like his venom, the stronger dumber version of himself, basically, also homegrown. Add to this other sundries like the elemental trader Moses Magnum, traitorous brother Hunter, fickle Panther God Bast and all the assorted malcontents that aren't smart enough to run things, but get employed by Klaw and Killmonger from Malice (former fiance of T'Challa) to Rhino (borrowed from Spidey), to Radioactive Man and Baron Macabre. Trilogy's worth of epic climactic battles in the bag.

.

No offense, but not all those guys are cut out for the silver screen. Klaw and Killmonger are the best choices for a first and second movie respectively. Man Ape serves the same function as Killmonger, only he is far more lame and more potentially offensive. Also the Black Panther franchise doesn't have the rights to Rhino so he wouldn't show up.

Also I'm not sure Klaw wouldn't work better as just a guy with a sonic weapon, turning him into a sound energy creature would add a lot to the budget and I think this movie might want to stick to a smaller budget.

[MessiahDecoy123]

BP has a superior rogue gallery to Blade and that franchise made it to 3 movies, so BP has the potential to go beyond that if they don't kill the franchise first (Blade 3).

[DrCosmic]

Originally Posted by The Overlord

No offense, but not all those guys are cut out for the silver screen. Klaw and Killmonger are the best choices for a first and second movie respectively. Man Ape serves the same function as Killmonger, only he is far more lame and more potentially offensive. Also the Black Panther franchise doesn't have the rights to Rhino so he wouldn't show up.

Also I'm not sure Klaw wouldn't work better as just a guy with a sonic weapon, turning him into a sound energy creature would add a lot to the budget and I think this movie might want to stick to a smaller budget.

Why would it need to stick to a smaller budget?

Man-Ape serves a different function from Killmonger because Man-Ape is a bruiser lackey and Killmonger is not. Their stories are similar, I'll give you that, having them in the same place in a story doesn't work at all, afaik.

I mentioned Rhino for FYI purposes, Klaw employing Batroc, Black Knight, Radioactive Man and pinch hitting bruiser, even Man Ape works just as well. but I agree, Klaw works better with a sonic weapon/prosthetic at first, though having him dispersed into sound in case he is brought back in a sequel could be pretty cool.

Originally Posted by KangConquers

I agreed with everything you said until this. Black Panther in my eyes would struggle to get to a trilogy where as with Cap, I can think of 4-5 potential movies. Cap has a much stronger rogues gallery.

Hmmm... I see Cap as having a similar struggle, and I can easily see 4-5 potential movies for BP. As I look at it further, I think their rogue's galleries are actually quite comparable, aside from Cap's rogues having more face time over the years. BP has a Red Skull and a Zemo, and a merc for every merc that Cap has. Cap's foes have organizations behind them, I'll give you that. I guess I don't always see those organizations as 'better' than having four-five fleshed out powered mininos like Klaw and Killmonger have. It works better for Cap, I agree, because he has clobber-fodder to beat up on, but overall, I'm not seeing a wide discrepancy. Perhaps I simply haven't read enough of Cap's #3 and on villains to see how incredible they are, though.

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Klaw, Man-Ape, Killmonger, White Wolf, Kiber the Cruel, Reverend "Dumbo Ears" Achebe....vs. Red Skull, Baron Zemo, Crossbones, Arnim Zola, HYDRA, Viper, AIM, MODOK, Serpent Squad/Society, Winter Soldier, even Batroc Zee Leapairrr....

...yeah, agreed, not even close.

Hmmm... Batroc might be on both sides of that fence, and adding Malice, Moses Magnum, Baron Macabre, Madame Slay, (the other) Black Knight, (the other) Radioactive Man, the Hetut Zeraze, and Wakanda itself balances that out quite a bit, imho. But your mileage may vary.

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

BP has a superior rogue gallery to Blade and that franchise made it to 3 movies, so BP has the potential to go beyond that if they don't kill the franchise first (Blade 3).

Thank you. If the words "Captain America" are too distracting, just replace them with "Iron Man" or, if you think IM's rogues gallery is boss, Hulk. I know no one thinks his rogues gallery is amazing, right?

The way I might do it:
1 - Klaw and Co, Man Ape
2 - Killmonger and Co, The US/World
3 - Moses Magnum and Co, Kiber the Cruel
4 - Rev Achebe, White Wolf and Wakanda
5 - Something new/made up/extrapolated from his rogues
6 - Klaw Returns (sound form)

[Hypestyle]

I hope something is announced during comic-con ______ _____ _______. _____. The right script and director are needed for sure, even if the casting is on point...

[DarKush]

All this talk of rogue's galleries just reminds me of how underrated Panther's rogues are. To me, Klaw, Killmonger, Malice, Achebe, Hunter, or Death Tiger could all carry a movie. Man-Ape (or White Gorilla, which I prefer), maybe he could with the right story. I've heard of a group called the Supremacists from back in the day that might also be worthy movie adversaries. There's also some politics you could delve into with the Desturi, from Jonathan Maberry's arc. Or maybe Vlad the Impaler or (shudder) American Panther from David Liss's arc, however American Panther might be too controversial. It would be great to have Panther face someone like Doom, Kingpin, or Red Skull but I know that will never happen.

I think with the right approach many of the lesser known, or even more lesser known, of his villains could be fine for a movie. And I don't see why a villain couldn't be created to fill a need if there isn't one already doing that in the comics. Or I wonder if they could poach a villain that isn't being used or tied to a some movie rights. While I'm sure Rhino is out and Batroc might be, but what about Radioactive Man or Cannibal that Hudlin used in his first arc?

With Cap, my issue with his rogues are redundancy. He has a lot of Nazi villains-which of course makes sense-but at the same time will audiences feel like it's a retread if the next film uses someone like Zemo, Zola, or Strucker?

As for Thor and Iron Man, I don't think either has a great rogues' gallery, though I think Iron Man trumps Thor, though IMO Red Skull is the best villain out of any of these guys' (Thor, Iron Man, or Black Panther) galleries.

[roach]

I would be surprised if something BP movie is announced

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by DarKush

All this talk of rogue's galleries just reminds me of how underrated Panther's rogues are. To me, Klaw, Killmonger, Malice, Achebe, Hunter, or Death Tiger could all carry a movie. Man-Ape (or White Gorilla, which I prefer), maybe he could with the right story. I've heard of a group called the Supremacists from back in the day that might also be worthy movie adversaries. There's also some politics you could delve into with the Desturi, from Jonathan Maberry's arc. Or maybe Vlad the Impaler or (shudder) American Panther from David Liss's arc, however American Panther might be too controversial. It would be great to have Panther face someone like Doom, Kingpin, or Red Skull but I know that will never happen.

I think with the right approach many of the lesser known, or even more lesser known, of his villains could be fine for a movie. And I don't see why a villain couldn't be created to fill a need if there isn't one already doing that in the comics. Or I wonder if they could poach a villain that isn't being used or tied to a some movie rights. While I'm sure Rhino is out and Batroc might be, but what about Radioactive Man or Cannibal that Hudlin used in his first arc?

With Cap, my issue with his rogues are redundancy. He has a lot of Nazi villains-which of course makes sense-but at the same time will audiences feel like it's a retread if the next film uses someone like Zemo, Zola, or Strucker?

As for Thor and Iron Man, I don't think either has a great rogues' gallery, though I think Iron Man trumps Thor, though IMO Red Skull is the best villain out of any of these guys' (Thor, Iron Man, or Black Panther) galleries.

Thor has a huge rogues gallery just based on his mythological background.

[Phantom X]

Ya know, come to think of it, many of Spider-man's villains would make cool Panther foes. I mean think about it.

Kraven is an obvious choice. His physical and tracking abilities should be on par with BP's and he has weird potions that increase his abilities to Spidey level. A very cool and logical challenge.

Rhino yeah there are real rhinos in Asia too, but the largest most well know are the white and black rhinos in Africa. The supervillain has BP totally outmatched physically but isn't all that bright. Seeing BP battle a Hulk like opponant would be cool.

Vulture similar strength levels and use of high tech seems to make him a good choice too. And vultures are always following lions around so...

Jackal a mad scientist who lives here in America. Outside of zoos you won't find any jackals here, but they probably roam the country side around wakanda.

Sandman the Sahara is the largest body of sand on Earth so he'd be unstoppable. But Bp would figure somethin out.

Shocker Bp always talking about vibranium but who knows more about vibrations than Shocker?

Too bad it's never gonna happen. I find BP's villains to be a bit lame but with the right story maybe I could become a believer.