EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 2

[RockSP]

BP's faced off against Kraven at least once. During Priest's run.

[Markyboy00]

Originally Posted by Phantom X

I find BP's villains to be a bit lame but with the right story maybe I could become a believer.

I do have to agree.. But my main thought is how is a BP movie going to fit into the whole theme MCU is going for.. All of their movies are kind of linking together, how are they going to link anything to a BP movie.. Except for some kind of vibranium angle.. Some big time baddie trying get the stuff..

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by RockSP

BP's faced off against Kraven at least once. During Priest's run.

...and Rhino.

[Hypestyle]

... maybe by SDCC next year there will finally be movement on a Panther project.. especially after Django Unchained blows up at the box-office..

[E-Man]

BP not only fought two Spidey villains in Kraven(well, his son) and Rhino, but Morlun also attacked Wakanda when Shuri was being made Black Panther. I've always thought that Dr. Doom, Red Skull, Magneto, and Apocalypse would be great villains for Black Panther, but I'd love to see some of his own rogues make a comeback. Solomon Preyy and Baron Macabre were pretty cool. Black Dragon was a nice one too.

[DrCosmic]

Originally Posted by Markyboy00

I do have to agree.. But my main thought is how is a BP movie going to fit into the whole theme MCU is going for.. All of their movies are kind of linking together, how are they going to link anything to a BP movie.. Except for some kind of vibranium angle.. Some big time baddie trying get the stuff..

That's how they've linked him in every media so far, I don't see why they would stop now.

Ultron needs Vibranium (since he can't find adamantium without going to FOX)
AIM needs Vibranium for their science
Cap needs Vibranium if his Shield is broken/destroyed
And Thanos is trying to destroy the world... so that probably would also get Panther's attention

Also, you never know when Panther is just going to come over and recruit the Avengers, instead of the other way around...

[JackMercy]

http://www.deadline.com/2012/07/comi...film-projects/

I'm familiar with this guy's career, but not with his run on the BP book.

Discuss.

[E-Man]

Originally Posted by JackMercy

http://www.deadline.com/2012/07/comi...film-projects/

I'm familiar with this guy's career, but not with his run on the BP book.

Discuss.

I love his movies, but I absolutely hated his Black Panther run. It was bad on many levels. The plotting wasn't good, he didn't get T'Challa's character, and he made it about race at times where it shouldn't be. He got better at the end, but I still wouldn't feel good with him on a BP project.

[Markyboy00]

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

That's how they've linked him in every media so far, I don't see why they would stop now.

Ultron needs Vibranium (since he can't find adamantium without going to FOX)
AIM needs Vibranium for their science
Cap needs Vibranium if his Shield is broken/destroyed
And Thanos is trying to destroy the world... so that probably would also get Panther's attention

Also, you never know when Panther is just going to come over and recruit the Avengers, instead of the other way around...

Ok.. All very good points.. I think they all could be possible lead into bringing BP into a movie..

[tamron]

Originally Posted by E-Man

BP not only fought two Spidey villains in Kraven(well, his son)

T'Challa has battled two Kraven the Hunters; Aloysha in Priest's run and Sergei in BP: Man Without Fear.

[chamber-music]

Originally Posted by E-Man

I love his movies, but I absolutely hated his Black Panther run. It was bad on many levels. The plotting wasn't good, he didn't get T'Challa's character, and he made it about race at times where it shouldn't be. He got better at the end, but I still wouldn't feel good with him on a BP project.

This

[DarKush]

^
Well some folks feel that race should never be discussed period. That the mention of it is tantamount to racism. So when exactly should race be mentioned in a comic, book, movie? T'Challa is a black man, he's an African, I think his race might play a role in how he is perceived not just in the real world but in the comics world, so why not talk about that? My only issue with Hudlin regarding race was his sometimes questionable use of slang, however his usage of slang was much better than Christopher Priest's.

I didn't think Hudlin's run was perfect, but when I reread some of his books a few months ago I liked them better than I did the first go round. For me, I think he started out strong but then the middle of his run got weak but he finished on a good note, before handing it off to Maberry.

Also, Kraven showed up in David Liss's run. I think he played a role in the "Storm Hunter" storyline that finally brought Storm into the Panther comic.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Originally Posted by E-Man

I love his movies, but I absolutely hated his Black Panther run. It was bad on many levels. The plotting wasn't good, he didn't get T'Challa's character, and he made it about race at times where it shouldn't be. He got better at the end, but I still wouldn't feel good with him on a BP project.

Easily--and dare I say it, hands-down?--the worst comic writer ever. I mean, his interpretation of T'Challa was deplorable, appealing to some of the dumbest black stereotypes i.e. T'Challa being hung like a horse, obvious racial references, and the inclusion of tacky black "hood slang". He took Marvel's sophisticated answer to DC's "Batman" and made him a goofy thug.

He also built the Easy-Bake Oven that the BP/Storm marriage was microwaved in.

[RockSP]

Originally Posted by Lightning Strykez!

Easily--and dare I say it, hands-down?--the worst comic writer ever.

You need to read more comics.

[terry78]

I do think that the fact that some may take issue with Wakanda due to it being a "simple African nation" should be alluded to. Don't have to beat us over the head with it, but I don't like the issue of race just being disregarded, because in real life it would not be.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Originally Posted by RockSP

You need to read more comics.

LOL, no I don't. That's my opinion on Reginald Hudlin.

[RockSP]

I'm no fan of his run but "worst writer ever"...? Wow. Pick up some Liefeld comics someday (or don't...since they suck).

[E-Man]

Originally Posted by terry78

I do think that the fact that some may take issue with Wakanda due to it being a "simple African nation" should be alluded to. Don't have to beat us over the head with it, but I don't like the issue of race just being disregarded, because in real life it would not be.

Yep. It's all about balance. Hudlin had no balance at all.

[DarKush]

^
Once again I disagree. Hudlin wasn't afraid to mention race or perhaps have it running beneath the action of multiple stories because race does that in real life. Even when an issue seems 'nonracial' there could be racial implications, and I think Hudlin acknowledged that. There were times he did pointedly mention or display black figures from history-like that Skrull planet with Skrull MLK and Skrull Malcolm X, but how is this any really different than millions of comics that have used or referenced white historical figures over the years?

And Panther wasn't a thug in Hudlin's stories. If anything he was a bit of a Gary Stu, but his intelligence, ambition, love for Storm, heroics, all of that was on display. How is that making him a thug? I think Hudlin portrayed Panther better than Maberry, Aaron, or Liss did. I'm looking forward to seeing what Hickman has in store for T'Challa.

Hudlin wasn't the best writer ever, but he certainly wasn't the worst. For anyone that believes that, go read his Captain America/Black Panther crossover and come back and say that. What I personally think his greatest crime was is that he is a black man not afraid to admit that or to write Panther as being consciously aware-and proud-of the fact of his blackness and of being African. I think the trend is to 'transcend' race for black characters and Hudlin didn't do that.

Now that doesn't mean he was the most skillful writer-I've criticized his writing style in old posts-but he had love for the character and his history.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Sorry, but I can't co-sign any of that.

In my opinion, he applied the same lame "tactics" he used in "transforming" BET to Black Panther. His run had a very shallow, commercial feel to it--at least to me. And everything felt rushed. Especially the Storm marriage situation. It just came out of nowhere; very little development, hardly any background. It was, for all intents and purposes, an arranged marriage.

I remember rolling my eyes when he had T'Challa say something to the effect of "You've got me tripping boo." I was like, "tripping over what? You guys barely know eachother." Then came the rushed retcon story of their childhood which read like a "ready/mix--just add water" recipe.



He had an opportunity to take what could've one of the most iconic couplings/marriages--on par with Reed and Susan, Scott and Jean or Mary Jane and Peter--and handled it like a footnote. Perhaps he's not the "worst" writer of all time, but he was lazy as hell.

[DrCosmic]

Difference between being lazy and rushing.

Hudlin did a great job. It really doesn't matter how many nitpicks we have of his approach, he executed it well, and it met with a lot of success. Calling him the worst (Panther) writer ever is just silly hyperbole, and such comments should not be taken seriously. If you disliked his approach, that's fine, call it like it is, but some people try to make their opinions seem like more than they are and try to call the writer's entire career into question because T'Challa was cooler or more race-conscious than they would have liked. That's silly, and intellectually dishonest.

[Spider‐Man]

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

Difference between being lazy and rushing.

Hudlin did a great job. It really doesn't matter how many nitpicks we have of his approach, he executed it well, and it met with a lot of success. Calling him the worst (Panther) writer ever is just silly hyperbole, and such comments should not be taken seriously. If you disliked his approach, that's fine, call it like it is, but some people try to make their opinions seem like more than they are and try to call the writer's entire career into question because T'Challa was cooler or more race-conscious than they would have liked. That's silly, and intellectually dishonest.

In one of the finest examples of irony ever, Cosmic, you've just described yourself and the majority of your posts to a T.

And where did LS ever complain that Hudlin made BP cooler than he would have liked? That statement is nonsense.

[DrCosmic]

Who said LS said any such thing? I literally meant 'some people.' I guess you could view that post as opinion. Perhaps a four year run is not success to you, or you really think Liss was a better Panther writer. Most of my posts are based on the assumption that something that is largely agreeable is 'true' for functions of a discussion. I'm sorry if you feel differently, but I don't see how discourse is possible otherwise.

Also, this 'finest examples of irony' is another one of those hyperbolic things that should be used in posts that are meant for comedy, not when you take actual umbrage with someone's method of communication.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Not sure why you're taking me to task on this; I've said that this was my opinion and I couldn't have been more clearer.

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

Difference between being lazy and rushing.

Laziness is rushing.. Here's an equation that has proven true over and over again in life: Laziness + Rushing = Cutting Corners/ Fail.
The responsibility of a writer to finely craft a story in a cohesive manner for readers. When you "rush" (as you've put it) and cut corners (i.e. the aforementioned Storm/T'Challa engagement), elements of that cohesion is lost. The end product is damaged as a result.

We are discussing those results.

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

Hudlin did a great job. It really doesn't matter how many nitpicks we have of his approach, he executed it well, and it met with a lot of success. Calling him the worst (Panther) writer ever is just silly hyperbole, and such comments should not be taken seriously. If you disliked his approach, that's fine, call it like it is, but some people try to make their opinions seem like more than they are and try to call the writer's entire career into question because T'Challa was cooler or more race-conscious than they would have liked. That's silly, and intellectually dishonest.

It is fine that you believe he did a great job. There are no doubt many that agree with you. However, that is your opinion.

I, however, am not going to disregard your summation of his run the way you've done mine. Nor will I insult your intelligence by equating it to dishonesty. Instead, I'm going to let you reread what you've posted above and give you a moment to think about your "approach".

[Spider‐Man]

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

Who said LS said any such thing? I literally meant 'some people.' I guess you could view that post as opinion. Perhaps a four year run is not success to you, or you really think Liss was a better Panther writer. Most of my posts are based on the assumption that something that is largely agreeable is 'true' for functions of a discussion. I'm sorry if you feel differently, but I don't see how discourse is possible otherwise.

Ok, where did anyone complain of T'challa being cooler than they would have liked? Again, just a silly statement. What you meant was they complained about something that you thought was cool, therefore, since 'they' didn't like it, they had to be complaining about it being cooler than they would have liked, rather than just complaining that they didn't think it was cool. See how that implies that your opinion is more than it really is?

And success is subjective. Is a four year run successful compared to an 8 year run? Is a series that ranks near the bottom in sales results a success? Your assumption that something is largely agreeable is based on your own opinion. I say LS wins that round because if that series was so great and successful, why did it end?