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Old 07-13-2012, 09:32 PM   #376
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - Part 11

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Fair point.

Most of my dislike for Superman Returns cones from the fact that I didn't like the way Lois and Superman's relationship was handed. I had no interest in seeing them together, and that relationship is the focus of the film. The fact that I don't like the portrayal of Lex or that it has ties to the Donnerverse is icing on the cake. I could have overlooked those things if I had enjoyed the two leads.
Fair points. I really liked Lex in the film, but I can understand not liking that version of the character, considering the amount of camp. I am a big fan of the Donner film so the connection and getting a chance to see the Fortress like that with a 00s budget worked for me for the most part. I loved Routh.

Every complaint I have about the film goes away when I seen Superman in flight. I don't think I have ever seen a representation of a man flying better then SR. It is beautiful

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Old 07-13-2012, 09:47 PM   #377
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - Part 11

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Fair points. I really liked Lex in the film, but I can understand not liking that version of the character, considering the amount of camp. I am a big fan of the Donner film so the connection and getting a chance to see the Fortress like that with a 00s budget worked for me for the most part. I loved Routh.

Every complaint I have about the film goes away when I seen Superman in flight. I don't think I have ever seen a representation of a man flying better then SR. It is beautiful
I like Superman: The Movie but it doesn't belong to me. It's my Dad's Superman movie. I"ve wanted wanted to see a new Superman franchise since I was a little kid.

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Old 07-13-2012, 10:37 PM   #378
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - Part 11

Superman Returns is, for me, such a difficult film to review or criticize. There are many good things, but there's also a good amount of regular things. Is not a bad movie by any means, but I just can't help but feeling a little empty after watching it.
I don't know if making it a sequel of sorts to the Donner's films is a great idea, or a terrible one. From that alone, I can't really judge the movie.
I want to see it again. Tomorrow I'm gonna watch Superman: The Movie. I haven't seen that one in a long time.

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Old 07-13-2012, 11:04 PM   #379
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - Part 11

This is why even if Man of Steel suffers from Snyder's mediocre direction, it can really easily still be a good Superman film. There isn't much competition.

Donner's Superman The Movie was great for it's time but it's horribly dated today.

Superman II turned out to be a mess with Lester pissing on Donner's work.


Superman Returns was a 7/10. Good but not great. Passable, but not memorable. It didn't set the bar very high.


And every other live action incarnation of Superman has sucked...badly

It's really on Man of Steel to redeem Superman.

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Old 07-13-2012, 11:06 PM   #380
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - Part 11

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One of the aspect I really like about SR is that there is a clear distinction between Clark (his disguise to live), Superman (the image he uses to set an example) and Kal-El (the man we see with his mother, Lois and when he is alone). Would Superman do that stuff? No. Would the man born Kal-El? Hell yes. He is capable of nearly anything, but he still has the feelings of a human being. And that is what makes it something interesting to explore. He is arguably more human then humans but his alien powers allow him to cross that line at any moment he chooses.
Very well said, he's still a man raised by humans, a very good man but he's not perfect.

I share so many of your feelings and ideas about this film. Nice! I also think SR is more than just a retelling of STM, because there is evolution in the characters. They are not the same exact characters we met in STM. There is a lot of character development in the film, both Supes and Lois learn from their mistakes and try to cope with it the best they can, like Superman letting Lois go and by promising his son that he'll be there for him. Epic and heartfelt, IMO.



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Yeah, wasn't a big fan of Bosworth's Lois or how she was written. Her bitterness is fair, but it is not played in way that feels justified.

I didn't really feel to much for Richard in the situation. Mostly Clark and Jason. Richard seemingly knew the score before he ever even started dating Lois. And on the seemingly long engagement, and it is clear where Lois's heart lies.
I liked Lois' story in the film, I just think that Bosworth was miscast (too young and kind of bland in the role), but I didn't hate her either. She had her good moments in the film, IMO, liked her as a mom and playing hurt at Supes. She was unlikeable at first, but after her interview and flight with Supes she started to change and see things from Superman's perspective. ANd she even saved him from drowing and in front of Richard (poor guy, he had to know that she really cared for Supes).

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Old 07-13-2012, 11:10 PM   #381
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - Part 11

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This is why even if Man of Steel suffers from Snyder's mediocre direction, it can really easily still be a good Superman film. There isn't much competition.

Donner's Superman The Movie was great for it's time but it's horribly dated today.

Superman II turned out to be a mess with Lester pissing on Donner's work.


Superman Returns was a 7/10. Good but not great. Passable, but not memorable. It didn't set the bar very high.


And every other live action incarnation of Superman has sucked...badly

It's really on Man of Steel to redeem Superman.
My only problem is that it is redeeming it by on the surface, taking Superman 1 & 2 and modernizing it for today's audiences.

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Old 07-13-2012, 11:14 PM   #382
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - Part 11

I think, in a sad way, superman returns was a necessary film for people to get over Superman the movie. If most of you were present before SR, nothing bad could be said about STM. So when they announced it was a quasi vague sequel almost everyone was on board with it.

The truth is, most of the people that rank STM the movie as their favourite comic book film will always see it that way. This movie needs to appeal to a new generation of people. Sure it may not be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but lets face it, if the story is average to good with some great action scenes then it has a chance of being successful.

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Old 07-13-2012, 11:17 PM   #383
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - Part 11

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My only problem is that it is redeeming it by on the surface, taking Superman 1 & 2 and modernizing it for today's audiences.
And I say this out of respect, but besides older fans no one nowadays cares about those movies, let alone has watched them. I grew up in the batman 89 generation and thought the superman movies were bad, and I was a kid.

If they really did SR would have been successful.

both superman 1&2 had good elements and at some point you are going to have to use them because those are the characters. The campy elements that came along with it are what most people want gone.

The films are over 30 years old at this point.

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Old 07-13-2012, 11:24 PM   #384
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - Part 11

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And I say this out of respect, but besides older fans no one nowadays cares about those movies, let alone has watched them. I grew up in the batman 89 generation and thought the superman movies were bad, and I was a kid.

If they really did SR would have been successful.

both superman 1&2 had good elements and at some point you are going to have to use them because those are the characters. The campy elements that came along with it are what most people want gone.

The films are over 30 years old at this point.
I'm not saying that because I somehow feel nostalgic about Superman 1 and 2, but to me they are trying to sell this as modern and new, but on paper it sounds like the Amazing Spider-Man with more time in between films.

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Old 07-13-2012, 11:36 PM   #385
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - Part 11

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I'm not saying that because I somehow feel nostalgic about Superman 1 and 2, but to me they are trying to sell this as modern and new, but on paper it sounds like the Amazing Spider-Man with more time in between films.
True, but at some point all superhero movies sound the same on paper. Villain has city-destroying device, hero stops it.

For me it just feels like supermans character is bogged down by fans saying what they can't do when every other comic book character gets a free pass and is allowed to adapt to the times. It took dc how many years to get rid of the trunks? at the end of it, no one even cares that they did it.

With superman to many people complain for the sake of complaining, but I guess thats what happens with a character thats 70 years old. Especially for inconsequential things that have no affect on the most important part, the character.

At some point though, and I find on these boards a lot, everyone thinks they are some sort of writer or director or movie studio executive.

Zod is one of superman's best villains, if they do his character properly, he will have a major impact on the most important character in the franchise.. superman.

Here's a guy who's whole planet is destroyed, the few survivors remaining are criminals. If they want this series to resonate, you have to care about clark and superman. Zod is one of those characters that allows him to have a story more than darkseid ever would. Donner, laid an excellent foundation in the character, but it left a lot to be desired, that he himself touched on in the comics.

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Old 07-14-2012, 12:24 AM   #386
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - Part 11

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True, but at some point all superhero movies sound the same on paper. Villain has city-destroying device, hero stops it.
I just find it funny that people were up in arms after Superman Returns, talking about how similar it was to to previous Superman films and how they didn't want Zod for a sequel, then all of a sudden Zod is in Man of Steel and its fine because we're getting a Superman film. I'm not saying this movie is going to be bad, or Zod is going to be bad. It just is what it is, Zod again.

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For me it just feels like supermans character is bogged down by fans saying what they can't do when every other comic book character gets a free pass and is allowed to adapt to the times. It took dc how many years to get rid of the trunks? at the end of it, no one even cares that they did it.
It's also bogged down by fans who simply accept something because it's given to them. See Superman Returns.

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With superman to many people complain for the sake of complaining, but I guess thats what happens with a character thats 70 years old. Especially for inconsequential things that have no affect on the most important part, the character.
Or some of them, like me, might be complaining about the redundancy. You think with a character with 70 years old would have faced different challenges besides Lex and Zod.

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At some point though, and I find on these boards a lot, everyone thinks they are some sort of writer or director or movie studio executive.
I don't think you have to be some "sort of writer or director or movie studio executive" to see that there have been six Superman films (if you include Man Of Steel) and Zod has/will be featured in two of them and Lex Luthor four of them.

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Zod is one of superman's best villains, if they do his character properly, he will have a major impact on the most important character in the franchise.. superman.
Best in relation to what?

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Here's a guy who's whole planet is destroyed, the few survivors remaining are criminals. If they want this series to resonate, you have to care about clark and superman. Zod is one of those characters that allows him to have a story more than darkseid ever would. Donner, laid an excellent foundation in the character, but it left a lot to be desired, that he himself touched on in the comics.
I'm not sure why you can only care about Superman if Zod is used.

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Old 07-14-2012, 12:31 AM   #387
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - Part 11

i kinda feel the same way, Showtime... all these years- and we're still using general Zod?

whatever happened to Brainiac?

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Old 07-14-2012, 12:34 AM   #388
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - Part 11

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i kinda feel the same way, Showtime... all these years- and we're still using general Zod?

whatever happened to Brainiac?
I am really excited for this upcoming film, and I can't wait for the teaser...but...I'm not going to just pretend that we're getting something new and fresh. At this point I The Donner Movies have their place and Superman Returns has it's place, I have no allegiance to what came before. I'm excited for something new, but when they're digging up the Abrams script and taking us through a modernized version of Superman 1 and 2. I can't just not mention it.

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Old 07-14-2012, 12:40 AM   #389
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - Part 11

I don't like that Zod is being used again but hopefully it can be a different take.

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Old 07-14-2012, 12:45 AM   #390
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - Part 11

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I don't like that Zod is being used again but hopefully it can be a different take.
I'm sure it will, and I'm sure the movie will be good. I'm sure there will be an air of familiar when we see the teaser, but delivered in a tone we have yet to see from Superman. The general public is most familiar with Zod anyway because he's become pop culture.

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Old 07-14-2012, 12:48 AM   #391
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - Part 11

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I am really excited for this upcoming film, and I can't wait for the teaser...but...I'm not going to just pretend that we're getting something new and fresh. At this point I The Donner Movies have their place and Superman Returns has it's place, I have no allegiance to what came before. I'm excited for something new, but when they're digging up the Abrams script and taking us through a modernized version of Superman 1 and 2. I can't just not mention it.
Wow really? What was Superman's characterisation like in FlyBy? I don't remember much about the details I read a long time ago.

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Old 07-14-2012, 12:57 AM   #392
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - Part 11

Some Zod reaction from years gone by...

http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&highlight=zod

http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&highlight=zod

http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&highlight=zod

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=244791&highlight=zod


http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&highlight=zod

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Old 07-14-2012, 01:34 AM   #393
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - Part 11

Honestly, it'll bet almost all of the current money spending generation hasn't even SEEN the Reeve Supes movies. Zod will be as fresh as any other villain would be

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Old 07-14-2012, 02:05 AM   #394
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - Part 11

I'm hoping MOS will treat Zod the same way TDK treated Joker. A well-known character in a completely new, scary and relatable light that'll make people go, "whoa...!"

The great thing about Ledger as Joker though was that no one expected him to be that great. Most people expect it from Shannon. Might not be the best odds for Shannon.

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Old 07-14-2012, 02:07 AM   #395
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - Part 11

Let's not forget we also had a Smallville Zod.

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Old 07-14-2012, 05:19 AM   #396
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - Part 11

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I am really excited for this upcoming film, and I can't wait for the teaser...but...I'm not going to just pretend that we're getting something new and fresh. At this point I The Donner Movies have their place and Superman Returns has it's place, I have no allegiance to what came before. I'm excited for something new, but when they're digging up the Abrams script and taking us through a modernized version of Superman 1 and 2. I can't just not mention it.
THANK YOU!Ive been screaming this for a while now.I honestly cant see whats new thing Goyer brought to the table really.All I hear is a Birthright/Fyby origin fused with a modernisation of Superman 1 and 2 and just a hint of Superman earth one.Nothing new.

Im still excited about the movie thought.Just hate Zod being used.Braniac would have served the same purpose and more-he comes with Robots.ROBOTS.Robots are movie cashcows.Superman smashing Robots?bigger cash cows,
Reall hope Zod has an army that would be epic.

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Old 07-14-2012, 06:38 AM   #397
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - Part 11

Will there be a comic con coverage thread for Man of Steel or will people have to post the info in here?

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Old 07-14-2012, 06:40 AM   #398
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I'm confident that Snyder will deliver the goods with Man of Steel. The teaser will be the first proof. If there's one thing this guy knows how to do, it's cut awesome trailers.

Not indicative of the entire production, but it'll be a sign of what's in store. Can't wait.

 
Old 07-14-2012, 06:51 AM   #399
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Will there be a comic con coverage thread for Man of Steel or will people have to post the info in here?
I opened a thread and stickied it.

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Old 07-14-2012, 06:52 AM   #400
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - Part 11

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I'm hoping MOS will treat Zod the same way TDK treated Joker. A well-known character in a completely new, scary and relatable light that'll make people go, "whoa...!"

The great thing about Ledger as Joker though was that no one expected him to be that great. Most people expect it from Shannon. Might not be the best odds for Shannon.

This is what I want. I want to understand Zod. I hope he is not necessarily 100% evil, but simply misguided and on a power trip. He and Superman want the same thing but go about it in different ways.

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