Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

[Optimus27932]

Originally Posted by spideymouse

I think this sentiment is unfortunately the result of the underdevelopment of his character so far in the MCU. Here's to giving him a chance to shine in Phase II, possibly in Cap 2.

Hey i agree with spideymouse in that maybe he hasnt had much in the MCU but at the same time i understand where the big thor is coming from also.Hawkeye really isnt too much a factor.

[Big Green]

What about Tony? It would really settle RDJ's future, and give him his grandiose exit from the franchise. Just have Thanos give him the business in front of the rest of the Avengers.

[BigThor]

Originally Posted by Big Green

What about Tony? It would really settle RDJ's future, and give him his grandiose exit from the franchise. Just have Thanos give him the business in front of the rest of the Avengers.

I'm down with that, he's gotten enough shine and will certainly have had his fill by Avengers 2 or 3.

[natey2k4]

Originally Posted by Optimus27932

Hey i agree with spideymouse in that maybe he hasnt had much in the MCU but at the same time i understand where the big thor is coming from also.Hawkeye really isnt too much a factor.

Hawkeye is a leader. I'm hoping sequels build him up and maybe the new cartoon.

[BigThor]

^ Lol wut?

[natey2k4]

Originally Posted by BigThor

^ Lol wut?

I meant in the comics, obviously. He wasn't given enough screen-time to develop his leadership qualities (although he did lead the bad guys pretty well in the film - and he was clearly one of the leaders of SHIELD, although we don't get as much backstory as I would have liked).

In the Comics, he's lead plenty of his own groups. As of this moment he's currently the leader of the Secret Avengers and he's also one of the big players on the main Avengers team. He may not be the leader that Captain America is (even though Clint Barton has been Captain America before albeit very brief), but he's definitely the guy who is going to speak his mind and be listened to when he does.

[KangConquers]

I imagine if the GOTG are involved in Avengers 2, that Adam Warlock will end up dying, a'la

[BigThor]

If the GOTG ever meet up with The Avengers in the MCU, I really would like to see a Thor/Drax fight and eventual team up.

[the great thor]

Originally Posted by natey2k4

I meant in the comics, obviously. He wasn't given enough screen-time to develop his leadership qualities (although he did lead the bad guys pretty well in the film - and he was clearly one of the leaders of SHIELD, although we don't get as much backstory as I would have liked).

In the Comics, he's lead plenty of his own groups. As of this moment he's currently the leader of the Secret Avengers and he's also one of the big players on the main Avengers team. He may not be the leader that Captain America is (even though Clint Barton has been Captain America before albeit very brief), but he's definitely the guy who is going to speak his mind and be listened to when he does.

i dont get all of this talk about how hawkeye is a leader, i mean hello we have cap and nick fury for that. why would we need another in regards to hawkeye, i will take the super-soldier with great war experience over a human being who shoots arrows.

[spideymouse]

Originally Posted by the great thor

i dont get all of this talk about how hawkeye is a leader, i mean hello we have cap and nick fury for that. why would we need another in regards to hawkeye, i will take the super-soldier with great war experience over a human being who shoots arrows.

I don't know where the "Hawkeye is a leader" talk is coming from, but what makes Hawkeye a great character is he's sort of an anti-leader--a wise-guy maverick with a rebellious spirit who doesn't necessarily like taking orders--kind of like Han Solo. Like Black Widow, he has a criminal past and in that way he can relate to villains and believes in giving them second chances. He is a great foil for a leader like Cap as well as any superpowered hero, since he's a superhero who really has no powers. Again, they didn't dive into any of that in the movie, and that's probably why all you see in the character is that he shoots arrows.

[KangConquers]

Problem is, they went with Ultimate Hawkeye who is older than Captain America (well physically) and sort of a "good soldier". Vs the original dynamic of Captain America being the older brother figure.

[marcvader]

I think the guy who started the "Hawkeye as leader" conversation meant he wanted to see Hawkeye show some more leadership skills not necessarily be the leader of the Avengers. As KangConquers mentioned they went with more of a follower Hawkeye when he normally isn't that submissive especially in 616.

[spideymouse]

Originally Posted by marcvader

I think the guy who started the "Hawkeye as leader" conversation meant he wanted to see Hawkeye show some more leadership skills not necessarily be the leader of the Avengers. As KangConquers mentioned they went with more of a follower Hawkeye when he normally isn't that submissive especially in 616.

That's too bad. I like the 616 dynamic.

[TheHeatKitchen]

Dr. Selvig, Maria Hill and possibly Pepper Potts and/or Jane Foster. Treat them like Coulson in the Avengers. Use them as en emotional driving force for the movie. You have to up the ante. You killed a fan favorite in the first one, can't (or shouldn't) kill a primary Avenger and you could only kill Fury if you'll put Stark in charge.

Just my opinion. Keep in dark, keep the emotions high... maybe even kill Hawkeye.... MAYBE.

[BigThor]

Originally Posted by marcvader

I think the guy who started the "Hawkeye as leader" conversation meant he wanted to see Hawkeye show some more leadership skills not necessarily be the leader of the Avengers. As KangConquers mentioned they went with more of a follower Hawkeye when he normally isn't that submissive especially in 616.

That's very true but I think I prefer the silent loner Hawkeye over the oppositional overtly braggadocious Hawkeye in 616.

[Optimus27932]

Originally Posted by TheHeatKitchen

Dr. Selvig, Maria Hill and possibly Pepper Potts and/or Jane Foster. Treat them like Coulson in the Avengers. Use them as en emotional driving force for the movie. You have to up the ante. You killed a fan favorite in the first one, can't (or shouldn't) kill a primary Avenger and you could only kill Fury if you'll put Stark in charge.

Just my opinion. Keep in dark, keep the emotions high... maybe even kill Hawkeye.... MAYBE.

I agree ONLY if you put Stark in charge.Would be a good SURPRISE moment if done right.They have to let Fury go out the right way (like Mace Windu did in SW:ROTS).This way you've got the emotional involvement included.
Unless they do a DRASTIC change with Hawkeye i say let him go.

[Silvermoth]

So more or less kill all the women in the last Avengers movie?

[the great thor]

Originally Posted by spideymouse

I don't know where the "Hawkeye is a leader" talk is coming from, but what makes Hawkeye a great character is he's sort of an anti-leader--a wise-guy maverick with a rebellious spirit who doesn't necessarily like taking orders--kind of like Han Solo. Like Black Widow, he has a criminal past and in that way he can relate to villains and believes in giving them second chances. He is a great foil for a leader like Cap as well as any superpowered hero, since he's a superhero who really has no powers. Again, they didn't dive into any of that in the movie, and that's probably why all you see in the character is that he shoots arrows.

i get the feeling you are a hawkeye comic book fan, but there is a diffence between the comics hawkeye and what we got in the avengers movie, which is more down the ultimates path.i have never had much use for hawkeye as a character, i understand what he is supposed to be( a rebel who doesnt like authority and all) but i just dont think he is needed or important to the team. lets be honest the avengers would have won the final battle without hawkeye.he is only there for team interaction, and you can replace such a person with someone else.

[spideymouse]

Originally Posted by the great thor

i get the feeling you are a hawkeye comic book fan, but there is a diffence between the comics hawkeye and what we got in the avengers movie, which is more down the ultimates path.i have never had much use for hawkeye as a character, i understand what he is supposed to be( a rebel who doesnt like authority and all) but i just dont think he is needed or important to the team. lets be honest the avengers would have won the final battle without hawkeye.he is only there for team interaction, and you can replace such a person with someone else.

I'm actually not much of a comic book reader these days (I read some Spidey comics when I was younger, but not really avidly). Mostly, I just like interesting group dynamics in movies and TV shows where everyone brings something to the table, and I really like what Hawkeye brought to the table in the Avengers: EMH! cartoon.

In a group full of super-powered, super-smart, larger-than-life heroes, I think it's compelling if you have a regular, non-powered guy in the middle of it all, not taking any guff from anyone, occasionally offering a voice of dissent, contributing a different perspective. Again, I know how they characterized Hawkeye in this first movie, but since they really didn't develop him at all, I don't think they have to stick to the brooding loner personality with him. If he has a bit more screen time (and not under a spell) in the next one, I think they are free to explore more of who he is and what he does bring to the table.

Then again, you could maybe capture some of that with Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne.

[natey2k4]

Originally Posted by the great thor

i get the feeling you are a hawkeye comic book fan, but there is a diffence between the comics hawkeye and what we got in the avengers movie, which is more down the ultimates path.i have never had much use for hawkeye as a character, i understand what he is supposed to be( a rebel who doesnt like authority and all) but i just dont think he is needed or important to the team. lets be honest the avengers would have won the final battle without hawkeye.he is only there for team interaction, and you can replace such a person with someone else.

Hawkeye played more of a part to the deciding part of the final battle than Captain America or Thor.

Iron-Man stopped the nuke.
Black Widow shut down the portal.
Hawkeye got Loki off Widow's ass with a trick arrow.
Hulk pummeled Loki.

Captain America and Thor were doing an amazing job kicking ass and taking names - but to say Hawkeye didn't play a part is crazy.

[the great thor]

Originally Posted by natey2k4

Hawkeye played more of a part to the deciding part of the final battle than Captain America or Thor.

Iron-Man stopped the nuke.
Black Widow shut down the portal.
Hawkeye got Loki off Widow's ass with a trick arrow.
Hulk pummeled Loki.

Captain America and Thor were doing an amazing job kicking ass and taking names - but to say Hawkeye didn't play a part is crazy.

i am not saying hawkeye did not play a part, just not much of one. yes he saved bwidow and thats great but thats not anything special in and of itself (any teammate would have done the same) and if you look at your post, everyones actions have much more to do with the defeat of the aliens than hawkeye feats. he is just not suited to be on a team with gods, super powered monsters and iron men. he just looks out of place on this team to me.

[natey2k4]

Originally Posted by the great thor

i am not saying hawkeye did not play a part, just not much of one. yes he saved bwidow and thats great but thats not anything special in and of itself (any teammate would have done the same) and if you look at your post, everyones actions have much more to do with the defeat of the aliens than hawkeye feats. he is just not suited to be on a team with gods, super powered monsters and iron men. he just looks out of place on this team to me.

How was their purpose more important? How do you even know how many aliens Hawkeye killed? Every time it showed him, he was wiping them off like crazy. No different than Captain America, for example. Hawkeye and Cap both saved trapped people too.

And it's not about just "saving bwidow" it's about saving her at the exact moment he did. Without Hawkeye blowing Loki up, Widow probably gets killed and the portal never gets closed.

The only two who played a bigger part in the "ending of the portal/aliens) is Stark and Widow.

And yeah, Hawkeye is not as strong as the gods, super soldiers, or hulks of the world. But he damn sure held his own. The guy is just a human (same with Widow) and they showed no fear.

[DrCosmic]

When you guys go back over it, it does sound like Hawkeye was an integral part, but I distinctly remember not feeling that way when I left the theatre. One of the images that stuck with me was Hawkeye collapsing onto the floor after using his last arrow to save himself. I remember knowing in that moment this guy is done, that's all he has to give to the team. I think he he had found some way to be relevant past that, he would have had my respect and admiration instead of just my acknowledgement.

[souNdwAve89]

I wouldn't mind them killing any of the characters. I love all the characters in the MCU. If I had to choose, I would like them to kill off the big name, AKA Iron Man.

[natey2k4]

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

When you guys go back over it, it does sound like Hawkeye was an integral part, but I distinctly remember not feeling that way when I left the theatre. One of the images that stuck with me was Hawkeye collapsing onto the floor after using his last arrow to save himself. I remember knowing in that moment this guy is done, that's all he has to give to the team. I think he he had found some way to be relevant past that, he would have had my respect and admiration instead of just my acknowledgement.

Well the fight pretty much ended shortly after. We saw him moments later holding an arrow at Loki's eye.

Although, I laugh at that. He must have picked up an arrow on his walk over to Stark tower! Hahahaha.

Ps. I wonder if Stark made Banner pay for the damage. haha.