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View Poll Results: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?
Captain America 9 5.56%
Iron Man 17 10.49%
Thor 7 4.32%
Hulk 5 3.09%
Black Widow 19 11.73%
Hawkeye 24 14.81%
Nick Fury 20 12.35%
Maria Hill 26 16.05%
A new Avenger (please specify) 3 1.85%
A new SHIELD agent (please specify) 1 0.62%
Other (please specify) 6 3.70%
No one! 25 15.43%
Voters: 162. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-15-2012, 12:57 PM   #76
catintheengine
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

One of the reasons that the Coulson death worked so well (and really HAD to happen) was because the audience had come to know him so well. I can't currently think of anyone I know that didn't like that character.

His death in The Avengers was not just an emotional turning point for the characters, but for the audience as well.

I just don't think we've built that kind of attachment to Hawkeye yet. The same can be said for Maria Hill.

I would agree with what I saw someone else on here state: Iron Man is actually a logical choice. However, I think that if they were to do that, it would have to come in The Avengers 3 (assuming that we get three movies).

Iron Man is, from my understanding, by far the fan-favorite character among general audiences (by 'general audiences' I mean people who have little to no knowledge of these characters outside of the films). I think that killing him off in the second movie would alienate a lot of movie-goers before the third.

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Old 07-15-2012, 06:55 PM   #77
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

No, Hulk is BY FAR the fan favorite character among the general audience.

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Old 07-16-2012, 03:20 AM   #78
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No, Hulk is BY FAR the fan favorite character among the general audience.
Thats why the incredible Hulk is getting it's third sequel next year and Iron Man 2 isn't even in production. Iron Man is DEFINITELY the character the audience is most familiar with and favors. Hulk just shined because he worked well in the team element. I think Tony Stark is bound to die, I was half expecting him not to make it out of the space hole with the way his character arc was headed.

Anyway in all seriousness if Falcon gets introduced as it's been rumored Fury (who lets face it, is the only black person in the Marvel Cinematic Universe) is no longer safe by default. Black Widow (being the only woman) is still safe, Hulk (being indestructible and content with death) is probably safe, Captain America (having the last name America is safe), Iron Man (being the cash cow) is safe, Thor is up for the chopping block, Hawkeye we don't know well but they could easily remedy that.

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Old 07-16-2012, 05:20 AM   #79
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

Why is Thor up for the chopping block, he's Marvel Studios' second biggest cash cow behind Iron Man.

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Old 07-16-2012, 05:50 AM   #80
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

Because most of is know its not permanent. It could be impactful yet only temporary like it was for Gandalf. It would only be possibly for a portion of a film and he can be brought back immediately in the next one. That doesn't work as well for a regular hero because it seems cheap. Gods are seen somewhat immortal so its doable. No one wants a permanent death.

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Old 07-16-2012, 06:56 AM   #81
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

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Thats why the incredible Hulk is getting it's third sequel next year and Iron Man 2 isn't even in production. Iron Man is DEFINITELY the character the audience is most familiar with and favors. Hulk just shined because he worked well in the team element. I think Tony Stark is bound to die, I was half expecting him not to make it out of the space hole with the way his character arc was headed.

Anyway in all seriousness if Falcon gets introduced as it's been rumored Fury (who lets face it, is the only black person in the Marvel Cinematic Universe) is no longer safe by default. Black Widow (being the only woman) is still safe, Hulk (being indestructible and content with death) is probably safe, Captain America (having the last name America is safe), Iron Man (being the cash cow) is safe, Thor is up for the chopping block, Hawkeye we don't know well but they could easily remedy that.
Well, besides Rhodey and Heimdall and Gabe Jones.

What I would like to see is Nick Fury getting killed, only to be revealed later that it was an LMD. And Fury could then go on some secretive special ops mission with a small nucleus of S.H.I.E.L.D. agents. Or something.

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Old 07-16-2012, 12:15 PM   #82
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

I actually kind of dig that idea about the LMD. If they were to ever go forward with the S.H.I.E.L.D movie, it would work as a nice lead-in.

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Old 07-16-2012, 12:55 PM   #83
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How was their purpose more important? How do you even know how many aliens Hawkeye killed? Every time it showed him, he was wiping them off like crazy. No different than Captain America, for example. Hawkeye and Cap both saved trapped people too.

And it's not about just "saving bwidow" it's about saving her at the exact moment he did. Without Hawkeye blowing Loki up, Widow probably gets killed and the portal never gets closed.

The only two who played a bigger part in the "ending of the portal/aliens) is Stark and Widow.

And yeah, Hawkeye is not as strong as the gods, super soldiers, or hulks of the world. But he damn sure held his own. The guy is just a human (same with Widow) and they showed no fear.
ok maybe i missed something but what bwidow did was not something only she could have done. anyone on the team could have did it. and capt was the one calling the shots on when to close the portal.(doesnt make her anything special). and maybe hawkeye did kill a lot of aliens but i bet you hulk and thor took out a whole lot more, what did he do that any shield agent with a gun(bwidow) could have done. to be honest a gun can kill much faster than pulling out and shooting arrows can. listen i am not trying to dump on hawkeye but if you look at his character with a realistic eye, he is not anything that special or needed.

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Old 07-16-2012, 01:42 PM   #84
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

Both characters played pretty important roles in the film.

Black Widow was the one who was able to figure out what Loki's end-game was. Not only that, but she was the one who shut down the portal. Yes, anyone could have done that, but she was the one who was able to at that time.

Hawkeye basically directed traffic and was able to inform the other Avengers where they were needed for most of the fight. Here is a guy who, other than being extremely skilled at what he does, has no special ability or power and he held his own - in an exposed position nonetheless - against an overwhelming enemy force.

I'm not saying that those characters couldn't be killed off down the road, but to write them off as unimportant is just silly.

Speaking from a writer's point-of-view, they are kind of necessary: They humanize the story in subtle ways. They are soldiers, yes, but they are in-fact WAY out of their league. Yet they still hold their own. That's pretty impressive in my book.

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Old 07-16-2012, 07:45 PM   #85
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

I voted for Black Widow to make room for other female characters like Ms. Marvel, Spider-Woman and She-Hulk.

Plus a death scene of Black Widow would probably be very emotional and epic and I want to witness that!

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Old 07-17-2012, 11:12 AM   #86
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

Out of those three Ms. Marvel is the only one I think there is any chance of us seeing.

Marvel won't do Spider-Woman since Sony owns the rights to Spider-Man and they will want to avoid any confusion among the general audiences.

She-Hulk is just redundant at this point. We've finally got a great representation of Hulk on-screen, and there's just not really a need for her. However, if they ever do another Hulk solo movie, I wouldn't object to the introduction of Jennifer Walters.

Ms. Marvel, however, could be a strong addition to the cast of characters for the third Avengers though.

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Old 07-17-2012, 12:29 PM   #87
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

i get where you are coming from, but my question is if you have one human shield agent on the team(bwidow) why in the world do yiou need two. to talk about how out of there element they are, which they did by the way. its just what they did just did not do anything for me. i will admit i have never thought much of bowmen in comics(green arrow etc) its just ridiculous to me if you look at it with a shred of realism, its all just to much make believe that a guy who shoots arrows should be on a team with the likes of a hulk or a superman. and the fact it is done with the pov of hey look how cool the normal guy is fighting with these superheroes is just kinda stupid to me. if i was a normal person in this world i would ask hey why is hawkeye on this team. i guess i am a guy who needs more realism.


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Old 07-17-2012, 12:47 PM   #88
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

The fact that there is a master marksman is what broke your suspension of disbelief with The Avengers? It wasn't the guy who was in animated suspension for over a half-century, or the billionaire playboy in a suit of armor, or the being from another dimension who could summon lightning, or even the giant green monster that hit with the force of a freight train...

It was the bowman.

THAT was just too much to buy into.

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Old 07-17-2012, 12:54 PM   #89
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

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The fact that there is a master marksman is what broke your suspension of disbelief with The Avengers? It wasn't the guy who was in animated suspension for over a half-century, or the billionaire playboy in a suit of armor, or the being from another dimension who could summon lightning, or even the giant green monster that hit with the force of a freight train...

It was the bowman.

THAT was just too much to buy into.
Hehe good points. I thought the non-powered heroes were handled pretty well by Joss. He really made sure to keep them all at their power levels (though Black Widow controlling the Chitauri dude by sticking her hands into his shoulders was a little strange). It's really the point that there are all of these really different heroes coming together as a team.
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animated suspension
I've heard of suspended animation, but what's animated suspension? =P I'm picturing some dude with his limbs all tangled up in strings hanging from the ceiling, wildly and animatedly flailing all over the place to try and get free hehe.


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Old 07-17-2012, 01:10 PM   #90
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

Sorry, a typo on my part.

Personally I really liked both Widow and Hawkeye and how they were handled. I actually look forward to seeing more of both of them. I may be in the minority, but I still think it would be pretty cool to see a S.H.I.E.L.D. spin-off movie.

As far as Black Widow being able to control the Chitauri guy: I just sort of assumed it was pressure-point manipulation. It didn't seem like she had complete control.

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Old 07-17-2012, 01:22 PM   #91
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Sorry, a typo on my part.

Personally I really liked both Widow and Hawkeye and how they were handled. I actually look forward to seeing more of both of them. I may be in the minority, but I still think it would be pretty cool to see a S.H.I.E.L.D. spin-off movie.

As far as Black Widow being able to control the Chitauri guy: I just sort of assumed it was pressure-point manipulation. It didn't seem like she had complete control.
Haha I was just poking fun. I really did imagine the dangling person though.

The only beef I had with Hawkeye was that he got shortchanged character development-wise.

I actually thought BW was using her Widow's Bite in some capacity to control the dude.

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Old 07-17-2012, 01:30 PM   #92
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

Yeah, I won't argue that Hawkeye got a bit short-changed, but I foresee that being rectified in future films.

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Old 07-17-2012, 07:16 PM   #93
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

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Because most of is know its not permanent. It could be impactful yet only temporary like it was for Gandalf. It would only be possibly for a portion of a film and he can be brought back immediately in the next one. That doesn't work as well for a regular hero because it seems cheap. Gods are seen somewhat immortal so its doable. No one wants a permanent death.
But....he already missed almost half of the first film due to a late arrival.

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Old 07-18-2012, 09:31 AM   #94
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But....he already missed almost half of the first film due to a late arrival.
The more I think about it, the more it sounds like some of you guys are giving Hawkeye the Professor X treatment, where he gets knocked out/put under a spell/killed for half of the movie. I guess they did that to Cyclops in X2 and X3 as well. So much disrespect.

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Old 07-18-2012, 12:46 PM   #95
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

I'm with you on this spideymouse - I don't see a whole lot of love for Hawkeye on these boards.

It's a shame considering how many people were psyched to see Hawkeye's cameo in Thor.

The LAST thing I think most of us want is to see the Avengers franchise go the way of X3. I'm still mad about the treatment Professor Xavier and Cyclops got in that movie.

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Old 07-19-2012, 09:03 AM   #96
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ok maybe i missed something but what bwidow did was not something only she could have done. anyone on the team could have did it. and capt was the one calling the shots on when to close the portal.(doesnt make her anything special). and maybe hawkeye did kill a lot of aliens but i bet you hulk and thor took out a whole lot more, what did he do that any shield agent with a gun(bwidow) could have done. to be honest a gun can kill much faster than pulling out and shooting arrows can. listen i am not trying to dump on hawkeye but if you look at his character with a realistic eye, he is not anything that special or needed.
And I'm sure Hawkeye took out more than Captain America - does that make him non-important? Before you try to say Cap was taking down more baddies, remember that Hawkeye was taking out entire ships with 3-4 aliens on each ship.

Hawkeye was basically calling the shots after the fight started. He was letting everyone know where they were needed. Without Hawkeye calling the shots, a lot more civilians would have died.

And any SHIELD agent could have hit Loki from that far away? I doubt it. Hawkeye is called that for a reason - he can hit shots from far away with pinpoint accuracy. A sniper would have missed because Loki was moving too fast and a regular gun wouldn't have the distance not accuracy needed to pull off that type of shot.

And sure anyone could have gone up there and shut the portal, but who? Thor and Hulk wouldn't have any idea what to do, IMO. Captain America would have taken a lot longer to get up there. Iron Man was dealing with a nuke and Hawkeye just jumped off a building to stay alive (I hope for a sequel they add in the awesome leg quiver so he has more arrows). Black Widow was the only one who could get up there as fast as she did and figure out the problem.

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Old 07-19-2012, 09:12 AM   #97
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Sorry, a typo on my part.

Personally I really liked both Widow and Hawkeye and how they were handled. I actually look forward to seeing more of both of them. I may be in the minority, but I still think it would be pretty cool to see a S.H.I.E.L.D. spin-off movie.

As far as Black Widow being able to control the Chitauri guy: I just sort of assumed it was pressure-point manipulation. It didn't seem like she had complete control.
Maybe I'll need to watch it again, but I thought Widow shoved some type of blade into nervous system and then controlled the dead baddie with them? Im pretty sure she killed the first baddie by slashing it with the blades.

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Old 07-19-2012, 09:34 AM   #98
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Maybe I'll need to watch it again, but I thought Widow shoved some type of blade into nervous system and then controlled the dead baddie with them? Im pretty sure she killed the first baddie by slashing it with the blades.
Sounds good to me. Let's all go. I'll get the popcorn.

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Old 07-19-2012, 09:52 AM   #99
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Sounds good to me. Let's all go. I'll get the popcorn.
Hahaha, I'm in. I have a feeling when I get the bluray, I won't be leaving my house for at least 3 days.

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Old 07-20-2012, 12:22 PM   #100
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And I'm sure Hawkeye took out more than Captain America - does that make him non-important? Before you try to say Cap was taking down more baddies, remember that Hawkeye was taking out entire ships with 3-4 aliens on each ship.

Hawkeye was basically calling the shots after the fight started. He was letting everyone know where they were needed. Without Hawkeye calling the shots, a lot more civilians would have died.

And any SHIELD agent could have hit Loki from that far away? I doubt it. Hawkeye is called that for a reason - he can hit shots from far away with pinpoint accuracy. A sniper would have missed because Loki was moving too fast and a regular gun wouldn't have the distance not accuracy needed to pull off that type of shot.

And sure anyone could have gone up there and shut the portal, but who? Thor and Hulk wouldn't have any idea what to do, IMO. Captain America would have taken a lot longer to get up there. Iron Man was dealing with a nuke and Hawkeye just jumped off a building to stay alive (I hope for a sequel they add in the awesome leg quiver so he has more arrows). Black Widow was the only one who could get up there as fast as she did and figure out the problem.
please dont tell me hawkeye did more or was more important than cap. i really hope you are not suggesting that. i mean when all the marvel movies have in some form or fashion been about or connected to capt, i really cant believe you would down play capt role to hawkeye. i guess the military was wrong to spend untold money and time chaseing after a perfect super-soldier when, hey wait a minute we just need a very good bowmen. what i am saying is if i had to pick between capt and hawkeye in regards to a must have in that battle, well lets see i think i would go with the super-soldier with a enormous amount of war experience and leadership ability to a human being with really good aim.

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