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Old 07-22-2012, 09:06 AM   #101
rickfox
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

Great analysis

plus, that pearl necklace is one of the most important elements for plot development since Batman Begins.

At the end of the Dark Knight rises you will notice Selina wearing pearl necklace(she and Bruce were sitting in that cafe on the bank of Arno river near Florence)

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Old 07-22-2012, 09:23 AM   #102
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Personally I don't buy the whole Alfred tracking the pearls thing. The only reason the tracking device in the pearls was mentioned was so that Bruce could track down Selina Kyle and confront her. If you actually believe that Alfred had to track the pearls to find Bruce in Italy in the end, you then would have to believe that Alfred's tears at the graveside were not real and legitimate. And honestly, that is really disrespectful since Alfred's 'apology' to Martha and Thomas there was geniunely heartfelt and one of the few if not the only real emotional points of the whole film.

That said, I don't think the end of this movie was confusing at all. It was pretty clear and straight forward, though bad IMHO.
which scene shows first during the ending part of this move?

Alfred's tears and apology or
the man(Lawyer?played by Tomas Arana ) who carries out Bruce's will mention pearl necklance gone missing when he start to check item list with that reception lady?

the scene of Alfred's tears and apology shows first

so is anyone want to state there is 0 possibility for that
lawyer to inform Alfred that they can not find that necklace?

well,if no one want to make that statement, then...

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Old 07-22-2012, 11:06 AM   #103
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Personally I don't buy the whole Alfred tracking the pearls thing. The only reason the tracking device in the pearls was mentioned was so that Bruce could track down Selina Kyle and confront her. If you actually believe that Alfred had to track the pearls to find Bruce in Italy in the end, you then would have to believe that Alfred's tears at the graveside were not real and legitimate. And honestly, that is really disrespectful since Alfred's 'apology' to Martha and Thomas there was geniunely heartfelt and one of the few if not the only real emotional points of the whole film.
Umm, couldn't Alfred just have discovered the tracking on the pearls AFTER the funeral?

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Old 07-22-2012, 11:31 AM   #104
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Umm, couldn't Alfred just have discovered the tracking on the pearls AFTER the funeral?
Yes, I think that is implied.

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Old 07-22-2012, 12:10 PM   #105
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Great analysis

plus, that pearl necklace is one of the most important elements for plot development since Batman Begins.

At the end of the Dark Knight rises you will notice Selina wearing pearl necklace(she and Bruce were sitting in that cafe on the bank of Arno river near Florence)
Selena is NOT wearing the pearl necklace at the cafe. So enough of the "Alfred tracked them down" nonsense.


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Old 07-22-2012, 12:13 PM   #106
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This is why endings like this frustrate me. It didn't feel concrete once the credits hit I was more or less like... That's it? That's how the legend ends?! And you're left brainstorming and guessing about too many things all at once. After
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Blake rises from the platform
How could we ever know what happens afterwards? Everything is left for our own interpretation. It's aggravating to say the least.
No, it's the beauty of it. "The Dark Knight rises" at the end. I like how in all three movies Nolan has taken the idea of a "Bat-family" (though with more emphasis on people like Gordon, Fox, Alfred, Dent and Rachel Dawes than the usual members of the comics) and pushed it to the point where Bruce just can't be Batman. Batman is a construct of a group of civilians, a community, trying to take their city back. "It takes a village...." and all that.

Even though Bruce is gone the city may still need it. So, another will rise to the occasion. Do we have to see how. No, because Bruce's story is done and leave it to the imagination to fill in the rest.

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Old 07-22-2012, 12:19 PM   #107
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But people still seem to think this ending isn't as straightforward as it seems, so.... -_-
Alfred never met Selina Kyle in person. He only saw her picture when Bruce was looking her up & why would Alfred dream that Bruce would get together with a known criminal at the time ? That makes no sense

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Old 07-22-2012, 12:29 PM   #108
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I finished seeing the movie again for the 3rd time, and I still can't express just how much everything in this film just works for me !!!

I wanted to just express out loud the aspects I caught about the ending, and how I see it.

1. on some forum it was mentioned "how can THE BAT be around still, if it was atomized in nuclear explosion?". I think it is implied that Bruce was using the black version of it, as Lucious had said earlier that they have one also in black. It's understood that the armory no longer just has 1 of everything. There are several tumblers, so there should also be several BATs. The one that the engineers are working on at the end is still that blue/grey color. So most likely a prototype. And what Bruce fixed was a SOFTWARE PATCH on the autopilot, 6 months earlier. So perhaps that was then native across all the systems on the other BATs as well.

2. I don't think the Pearl Necklace was anything more than just something that Bruce himself wanted to keep. Its probably his most treasured position. All his money and other things mean nothing, but his mother's necklace, the very last thing he and his dad shared about the night they died, THAT he wanted to keep. And it could be he had it to give to Selena, or maybe even thought Alfred would notice them missing, and then go about trying to track them down, via the tracking in the necklace. That is also good. But he did look generally surprised seeing them at cafe. Didn't look like he was "searching" for anything or anyone. But I can go with either theory. Either a means to get Alfred to search for them. Or, as Bruce's most important keepsake.

3. I love Nolan's movie ambiguous endings. They give the movie continual appreciation. It lives on. As such, I can't decide if John Blake is just meant to discover the Cave and eventually Bruce will return, and they will be Batman & Robin. Or if he is meant to be the new Batman. Gordon got a NEW BAT SIGNAL. So a batman there will still be in Gotham. But who will it be? The trappings of the original story are no longer there. There is no longer just a Wayne Mansion, solely lived in by Bruce Wayne. Wayne Enterprises may no longer be around, depending on if they eventually return the funds lost via the Exchange Robbery. Which Lucious did say would eventually be seen as fraud. But now it's a Boy's Home. So there is a new aesthetic at work now. So Blake could be a new Batman. The ROBIN name was just a throw to the fans, and general audience. As Blake was a perfect mix of all 3 robins (grayson, todd, drake). Being referred to as Robin is just to show that YES, at one time there was a BATMAN & ROBIN who fought together.
We are so used to the repetition, and longevity of the comic book world, that most don't consider that some stories and legends can be based on ONE TIME occurences. Not just OVER & OVER again.
Nolan brings this to his film world, as close as he can, a somewhat more "realistic idea". Yes, to a point. But some ground principals. It's not reasonable that Bruce will forever crush skulls. His bones would be dust before then. He can't do this forever. Ras al Ghul is not immortal, in the physical sense. But his idea lives on. His spirit in his daughter. Things like that. There are nods to the origins from the book. But not straight translation. They try to capture the core idea and theme of the character. Not always leave it for, "ok, introduce this villain. but don't kill him, because he's supposed to come back...again and again and again". If that were the case, then what is the EPIC nature of the film for then ? It sucks from a movie franchise pov, but makes sense if you are trying to defeat a villain in the real world, you would do your best to actually kill him off.
But there is a trade off. As some of the villains are never TRULY seen dying. Yes, Ras al Ghul's train was only seen going down, no charred body. Joker was left hanging. Bane was blasted and flew back into a wall, but not to bits. So there is always reasonable doubt. There is the compromise.

4. Finally, I keep picking up that "Blake has to be batman, Because poster reads THE LEGEND ENDS". So that has to mean that now there is a new legacy, new franchise, new stuff all around. That could be. But I like Nolan, and he seems to setup his movie ads and promotion with what is at core in the film, versus how it is really ending. It was like that for INCEPTION. "your mind is the scene of the crime". So you go into wondering just wtf that means, and it begins to unravel. You are now in that movie world, and that is the general premise/idea of what is going on. I believe the same is true for "THE LEGEND ENDS". Not meant literally that this batman is done with. Bruce is gone, now bring on the JGL show. I think it means that from the pov of the people of gotham. the 8 yr hiatus of batman is OVER. THE LEGEND is over. He's Back. No longer just history, which then became legend. No longer just something old cops tell their rookie partners about. THE LEGEND ENDS...BATMAN IS BACK ! That is how I see it.

Just wanted to share all that. Again, great movie. Gonna see it again quite soon. Just too much goodness in it. Acting, the music, 3 great tearful moments. Anne Hathaway's ridiculous waist line. Good things

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Old 07-22-2012, 12:30 PM   #109
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Selena is NOT wearing the pearl necklace at the cafe. So enough of the "Alfred tracked them down" nonsense.
hey, yeah, i noticed that to. I don' know why so many people are going by that. 3 times now, and I just see her neck, you barely even notice her, as the attention is on wayne more.

But, i posted on all that just now.

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Old 07-22-2012, 12:34 PM   #110
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Alfred never met Selina Kyle in person. He only saw her picture when Bruce was looking her up & why would Alfred dream that Bruce would get together with a known criminal at the time ? That makes no sense
...Because he wasn't dreaming.

Christ.

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Old 07-22-2012, 12:40 PM   #111
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...Because he wasn't dreaming.

Christ.
But people on here seems to think he was. So I was saying with Selina there alone. That does not make sense

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Old 07-22-2012, 12:42 PM   #112
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...Because he wasn't dreaming.

Christ.
Lol it really is frustrating isnt it?

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Old 07-22-2012, 12:49 PM   #113
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...Because he wasn't dreaming.

Christ.


I really don't understand why the ending needs to be explained. It's crystal clear. Whether it works or not is another issue, but it's hardly difficult to comprehend.

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Old 07-22-2012, 12:54 PM   #114
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

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Selena is NOT wearing the pearl necklace at the cafe. So enough of the "Alfred tracked them down" nonsense.
Hmmm... I could have sworn up and down that she was wearing them at the cafe. I'm taking in another viewing tonight so I'll be sure to pay extra close attention.

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Old 07-22-2012, 12:54 PM   #115
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Alfred never met Selina Kyle in person. He only saw her picture when Bruce was looking her up & why would Alfred dream that Bruce would get together with a known criminal at the time ? That makes no sense
Actually he did. He very clearly gave her the tray of food and told her to take it up to the room and walk out in her first scene in the movie. I mean wasn't anyone actually paying attention to the movie? He met her in the first 10 minutes of the movie.

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Old 07-22-2012, 12:58 PM   #116
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Why exactly would Alfred track the pearls if he thinks Bruce is dead. Also, tracking a pearl necklace is an afterthought after what happened.

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Old 07-22-2012, 01:02 PM   #117
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Why exactly would Alfred track the pearls if he thinks Bruce is dead. Also, tracking a pearl necklace is an afterthought after what happened.
Because the lawyer brought it up at the very end of the movie that they were missing. I'm sure that would have tipped him off.

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Old 07-22-2012, 01:03 PM   #118
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Hmmm... I could have sworn up and down that she was wearing them at the cafe. I'm taking in another viewing tonight so I'll be sure to pay extra close attention.
She definitely wasn't.

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Old 07-22-2012, 01:12 PM   #119
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Hmmm... I could have sworn up and down that she was wearing them at the cafe. I'm taking in another viewing tonight so I'll be sure to pay extra close attention.
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

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Old 07-22-2012, 01:14 PM   #120
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Actually he did. He very clearly gave her the tray of food and told her to take it up to the room and walk out in her first scene in the movie. I mean wasn't anyone actually paying attention to the movie? He met her in the first 10 minutes of the movie.
That's what I've been wondering... So many people said Alfred never met her, when he was the first to meet her.

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Old 07-22-2012, 01:21 PM   #121
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That's what I've been wondering... So many people said Alfred never met her, when he was the first to meet her.
Oh so Alfred just happens to imagine Bruce with a random maid who was at Wayne Manor once during a gathering?

Lol @ people who think Alfred was hallucinating. Guess Scarecrow flew to Italy and spiked his punch?

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Old 07-22-2012, 01:27 PM   #122
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Oh so Alfred just happens to imagine Bruce with a random maid who was at Wayne Manor once during a gathering?

Lol @ people who think Alfred was hallucinating. Guess Scarecrow flew to Italy and spiked his punch?
Maybe Alfred was dreaming Batman from the beginning. Batman didn't exist and neither was the Wayne family. Alfred is locked up in Asylum dreaming this up.

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Old 07-22-2012, 01:28 PM   #123
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Awesome write up. It definitely made the ending even better. I too like how Nolan leaves it up the audience to decide how it proceeds from here on out.

Thank you Nolan and co.

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Old 07-22-2012, 01:29 PM   #124
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What about the fact the locale was -exactly- the same place and shot as the flashback to Alfred in between Begins events except the different couple was replaced with Selina and Bruce? As much as I figure he's alive, I think it was trippy enough to mistake it as a hallucination in spite of facts with the way the shot was.

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Old 07-22-2012, 01:30 PM   #125
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That's what I've been wondering... So many people said Alfred never met her, when he was the first to meet her.
Fine he met her first. But why would Alfred then dream that Bruce got together with a criminal ? That alone does not make sense. Lets just say that this entire movie was a dream by Cobbs

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