The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - Part 135

[TanneRain]

I don't think the prison doctor made the mask, I think he made it necessary for Bane to wear the mask. We see Ra's find Bane in a flashback and he has bloody bandages over his face and the mask is clearly not underneath it.

[DKDetective]

Originally Posted by J.Howlett

How good is Knightfall compared to the rest of the graphic novels Year One and the Long Halloween?

I don't know if that is a rhetorical question or not, but I personally think it lacks much of the depth and polish of graphic novels like Year One and The Long Halloween. It's a good story, but personally I find it overlong, bloated, and lacking the clarity and focus of shorter works.

[TanneRain]

Originally Posted by redfirebird2008

haha, great line. I loved Bane's dialogue in this movie.

Indeed, I can't think of a bad line that he had.

[DoomsdayApex]

Originally Posted by jmc

It lacked a focus on one of them. It's not devoid of themes, in fact there's plenty of ideas going around, it's just not as polished as films one and two.

I wouldn't say it's not as polished as Begins' and Knight's. I thought Nolan focused and illustrated on pain and consequences quite well. The themes involving fear and redemption weren't on par with the others though.

[jmc]

^ See there's another interpretation of what the theme was. There's no consensus.

[robthorn24]

Originally Posted by rogue_agent

Yeah, pretty much the look I got from her. Well worth it.

[DoomsdayApex]

Originally Posted by jmc

^ See there's another interpretation of what the theme was. There's no consensus.

Well... pain was the big one.

[batman11]

Originally Posted by jmc

^ See there's another interpretation of what the theme was. There's no consensus.

Just for argument's sake, what was the one, solitary theme in TDK? I've seen multiple interpretations for that as well, with explanations that I found to be equally valid and interesting.

I don't necessarily disagree with you on the front of giving the film (and its messages) more room to breathe, though.

[BuddhaWasABat]

I think all of the political themes and inequality etc. were just thrown in there and weren't explored enough, however I do think the themes of reinventing ones self were well executed.

[DoomsdayApex]

Originally Posted by batman11

Just for argument's sake, what was the one, solitary theme in TDK? I've seen multiple interpretations for that as well.

I don't necessarily disagree with you on the front of giving the film (and its messages) more room to breathe, though.

Batman Begins - Fear

The Dark Knight - Chaos

The Dark Knight Rises - Pain

[jmc]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayApex

Well... pain was the big one.

To you apparently. According to Bosef it was fear. J. Howlette mentioned death. I've read others say the class-divide, redemption, I saw elements of loss of freedoms. See where I'm getting at and why I don't believe the film has a focused theme?

[batman11]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayApex

Chaos/Anarchy.

But I thought it was escalation. Or the foils of heroism. Or consequences. Or the dangers of (misguided and opposing) ideal clashes.

How can the film have so many different main themes?

[J.Howlett]

Originally Posted by DKDetective

I don't know if that is a rhetorical question or not, but I personally think it lacks much of the depth and polish of graphic novels like Year One and The Long Halloween. It's a good story, but personally I find it overlong, bloated, and lacking the clarity and focus of shorter works.

Okay. Thanks for that. I was thinking about picking it up but I already have Year One, The Long Halloween, Dark Victory, and Hush. I don't think I need anymore. Oh, I got Batman Earth One. It was...I'm still undecided on it...

[DoomsdayApex]

Originally Posted by batman11

But I thought it was escalation. Or the foils of heroism. Or consequences. Or the dangers of (misguided and opposing) ideals.

How can the film have so many different main themes?

Escalation was definitely a theme for TDK, but when reading through Nolan's old interviews -- Chaos (the central theme) was reiterated in almost every article.

[jmc]

Originally Posted by batman11

Just for argument's sake, what was the one, solitary theme in TDK? I've seen multiple interpretations for that as well, with explanations that I found to be equally valid and interesting.

I don't necessarily disagree with you on the front of giving the film (and its messages) more room to breathe, though.

I know most say escalation but I think it's a little bit skewed given what was said at the end of Begins.

[DoomsdayApex]

Originally Posted by jmc

To you apparently. According to Bosef it was fear. J. Howlette mentioned death. I've read others say the class-divide, redemption, I saw elements of loss of freedoms. See where I'm getting at and why I don't believe the film has a focused theme?

A film can host many themes, but there's always one prominent theme in every film. Hearing Jonah, Chris and Bale talk about TDKR and Bruce Wayne's character, it became clear to me that 'pain' was the cardinal theme for Rises.

[Dragon_316ca]

Nolan did said in the video interview the theme in TDKR is consequences: http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/168...an-theme.jhtml

[Wedge A.]

Originally Posted by J.Howlett

How good is Knightfall compared to the rest of the graphic novels Year One and the Long Halloween?

Fun, but sometimes tediously long.

[TanneRain]

I would say a theme of TDK would also be consequence.

[bosef982]

Originally Posted by J.Howlett

How good is Knightfall compared to the rest of the graphic novels Year One and the Long Halloween?

Not as good, more fantastic, but a great read nonetheless.

[DoomsdayApex]

Originally Posted by Dragon_316ca

Nolan did said in the video interview the theme in TDKR is consequences: http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/168...an-theme.jhtml

Pain and Consequences are unarguably the biggest themes for Rises, in my opinion.

[ScottJRamsey]

Lol since when does a film having multiple potential interpretations of the theme, subtle/not overt references to the zeitgeist, a complex narrative, character arcs for nearly ALL the characters (with the exception of Miranda, and even an argument can be made for her), and the decision not to spoon feed the audience certain details make it a BAD film? these were once the things that people PRAISED Nolan for.

Miranda/Bruce romance underdeveloped? Maybe. Slightly overwhelming on first watch? Maybe. (But what Nolan film isn't?) A little short for its own good? Maybe. (Although usually being tight and not over bloated is considered something praiseworthy). But most of the other criticisms of this film are kinda laughable considering they are pretty much just negative twists on things that people praised Nolan for in BB, TDK and Inception.

[Kane52630]

Originally Posted by batman11

But I thought it was escalation. Or the foils of heroism. Or consequences. Or the dangers of (misguided and opposing) ideal clashes.

How can the film have so many different main themes?

[batman11]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayApex

Escalation was definitely a theme for TDK, but when reading through Nolan's old interviews -- Chaos (the central theme) was reiterated in almost every article.

Originally Posted by jmc

I know most say escalation but I think it's a little bit skewed given what was said at the end of Begins.

I agree with both of you. My point was simply that citing that people have differing opinions on what the main theme of a film might be doesn't necessarily equate to the absence of a main theme. Now, this is obviously an isolated example, as I'm merely comparing to BB or TDK, which jmc mentioned as more solitary and polished, wherein I've also seen (and contemplated myself) the existence of multiple interpretations.

jmc, I think the fact that you might not see a main theme as you did in the first two simply speaks more to your personal interpretation of the film, which is perfectly valid, and, as I noted, I agree with on a a few levels.

On the topic of films having a "main" theme, though, I'm personally of the school of mind that stripping down an intentionally layered film to a single idea is a jarring task, given the subjectivity of it all. If Nolan intended for this "main" theme to be pain, for instance, but the underlying messages about welcoming fear resonated far more with me as a viewer, then I might be likely to cling to that and cite it as what I felt to be the central focus.

Again, this harkens back to the notion of attempting to fit in multiple levels and layers, and how one perceives their communal execution, whether it be as clunky or as wonderfully poignant. Now, seeing as I think pain and fear are directly correlated in this instance and totally service each other, that's probably not the greatest example.

Anyhow, I hope I don't come across as argumentative, I just think it's an interesting discussion worthy of some questioning, hypotheticals, etc.

[rogue_agent]

Originally Posted by robthorn24

Yeah, pretty much the look I got from her. Well worth it.

Cool