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View Poll Results: Which is the best?
Batman Begins (2005) 64 18.50%
The Dark Knight (2008) 145 41.91%
The Dark Knight Rises (2012) 137 39.60%
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Old 07-28-2012, 02:18 AM   #101
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Default Re: Fear. Chaos. Pain. Vote for your favorite Nolan Batfilm!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Wooden Alligator View Post
TDKR.

It really felt like Bane had the most screentime out of all the villains in the trilogy. The places Bruce's character went in this movie were excellent, as was Selina Kyle. Reviews I had skimmed prior to the film said that the beginning was a jumbled, helter-skelter mess. However it seemed pretty tightly woven to me. My quibbles with TDKR are the lack of many scenes in Bane's Gotham and bringing back the LOS. However, the way Hardy played Bane, Bruces journey and
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were able to make up for those shortcomings.

After having viewed BB and TDK back-to-back, I find them to be on the same level. I enjoyed watching Joker's mayhem just as much as I enjoyed seeing Bruce discover himself and train with the League of Shadows.
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Old 07-28-2012, 02:25 AM   #102
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Default Re: Fear. Chaos. Pain. Vote for your favorite Nolan Batfilm!

TDK is still the best one.

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Old 07-28-2012, 03:17 AM   #103
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Default Re: Fear. Chaos. Pain. Vote for your favorite Nolan Batfilm!

I voted TDK. I just saw TDKR for the second time and I find it trumps quite a few aspects from TDK - more consistent fight scenes, great female leads, action sequences as a whole were even bigger and better, outward Bruce Wayne arc.

But the pacing of TDK is flawless, IMO. Had TDKR been a three hour epic with a bit more breathing room, I think it would have topped TDK through and through. But damn, I really love TDKR. It's really close though.

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Old 07-28-2012, 03:18 AM   #104
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Default Re: Fear. Chaos. Pain. Vote for your favorite Nolan Batfilm!

TDK is easily the masterpiece of this trilogy.

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Old 07-28-2012, 03:42 AM   #105
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Default Re: Fear. Chaos. Pain. Vote for your favorite Nolan Batfilm!

I voted TDK. I'm honestly surprised to see TDKR is winning this poll. I really can't decide which is better between BB and TDKR. At first I gave it to BB, but I admit my love for that film is colored by it was the first "Batman movie" made in the way I always wanted. BB has a much stronger first act in introducing us to Bruce, his journey and his world, but TDKR, pardon the pun, rises so much higher in its narrative ambitions and has a much stronger ending. So....it's tough.

What isn't hard is saying that TDK blows them both away. To me it took two of the most iconic aspects of Batman's mythos (his yin/yang and order/chaos relationship with the Joker; the tragic fall of trusted friend Harvey Dent becoming Two-Face) and wove them into a narrative that both drew from comics like TKJ and TLH, as well as films and television like Heat and The Wire. Most of all it wrapped it into a morally ambiguous and uneasy reality seeped in post-9/11. I honestly do believe when people look back at cinema in the post-9/11 world of the Bush years, TDK will be one of the benchmark films that expressed the feelings of existential dread, disgust at some of our policies and wars and the obsession with hope and heroism that followed that tragic event (the papers about superhero films being a major product of national yearning have already been written).

And I haven't even mentioned Heath Ledger yet.

This is an easy vote for me.

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Old 07-28-2012, 03:58 AM   #106
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Default Re: Fear. Chaos. Pain. Vote for your favorite Nolan Batfilm!

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Originally Posted by Mr. Wooden Alligator View Post
TDKR.
Reviews I had skimmed prior to the film said that the beginning was a jumbled, helter-skelter mess. However it seemed pretty tightly woven to me.
Agreed.

After a second viewing, TDKR is quite tight. I remember thinking TDK had many holes the first time I saw it. Nolan's movies tighten up as you get to know them better and gather the details.

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Old 07-28-2012, 04:26 AM   #107
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Default Re: Fear. Chaos. Pain. Vote for your favorite Nolan Batfilm!

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I voted TDK. I just saw TDKR for the second time and I find it trumps quite a few aspects from TDK - more consistent fight scenes, great female leads, action sequences as a whole were even bigger and better, outward Bruce Wayne arc.
Good post, Jack. Agreed on Rises having the better fighting, women and Bruce Wayne sections. TDK is still the better film for me, but Rises isn't a slouch either. It's definitely not as bad as people first thought at all. Re watches are the charm.

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Old 07-28-2012, 04:31 AM   #108
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Default Re: Fear. Chaos. Pain. Vote for your favorite Nolan Batfilm!

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I voted TDK. I'm honestly surprised to see TDKR is winning this poll. I really can't decide which is better between BB and TDKR. At first I gave it to BB, but I admit my love for that film is colored by it was the first "Batman movie" made in the way I always wanted. BB has a much stronger first act in introducing us to Bruce, his journey and his world, but TDKR, pardon the pun, rises so much higher in its narrative ambitions and has a much stronger ending. So....it's tough.

What isn't hard is saying that TDK blows them both away. To me it took two of the most iconic aspects of Batman's mythos (his yin/yang and order/chaos relationship with the Joker; the tragic fall of trusted friend Harvey Dent becoming Two-Face) and wove them into a narrative that both drew from comics like TKJ and TLH, as well as films and television like Heat and The Wire. Most of all it wrapped it into a morally ambiguous and uneasy reality seeped in post-9/11. I honestly do believe when people look back at cinema in the post-9/11 world of the Bush years, TDK will be one of the benchmark films that expressed the feelings of existential dread, disgust at some of our policies and wars and the obsession with hope and heroism that followed that tragic event (the papers about superhero films being a major product of national yearning have already been written).

And I haven't even mentioned Heath Ledger yet.

This is an easy vote for me.
Completely agree.

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Old 07-28-2012, 05:30 AM   #109
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Default Re: Fear. Chaos. Pain. Vote for your favorite Nolan Batfilm!

1. TDKR 5/5
2. TDK 5/5
3. BB 4/5

TDK might have a tighter script, better editing and pacing. But the individual scenes and the overall emotions of TDKR trumps every flaw, I couldn't care less about some jarring transitions when when the overall story is so great and the individual scenes totally wrecks me with it's emotions. It has heartbreaking sadness, inspiring hopefulness and heart-rushing tension, all served on a plate of grandness and comic-book-language.

I'm one who can easily forgive technical and/or more individual flaws if the overall story and the movie itself with all it's visuals, dialogue and scenes still manages to deeply move, immerse or outright wow me. And boy did TDKR do that, rarely been as mesmerized by a movie as I was in the last 30 minutes of TDKR. Overall a very heartfelt and inspiring end to a brilliant trilogy.

Oh and I loved Bane as a villain even more than The Joker, never would have guessed that.

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Old 07-28-2012, 07:56 AM   #110
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Default Re: Fear. Chaos. Pain. Vote for your favorite Nolan Batfilm!

The Dark Knight Rises is my favorite. Never have I been so emotionally invested in a Batman (or superhero movie in general) film before.

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Old 07-28-2012, 08:26 AM   #111
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Default Re: Fear. Chaos. Pain. Vote for your favorite Nolan Batfilm!

Batman Begins 5/5
The Dark Knight 4/5
The Dark Knight Rises 5/5

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Old 07-28-2012, 05:53 PM   #112
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Default Re: Fear. Chaos. Pain. Vote for your favorite Nolan Batfilm!

Batman Begins 9/10
The Dark Knight 10/10
The Dark Knight Rises 6.5/10 ...7 if I've had coffee.

Perhaps having been a student of film - having taken in-depth classes in storytelling, storyboarding, editing, etc. - makes me more likely to nit-pick. I'll admit that. TDKR has many redeeming factors, but I can't shake my disappointment in some of the careless treatment of details, as well as the imbalance in character development/screen time (particularly in Cotillard's case). The twist ending felt a bit cheap.

That said, Michael Caine was fantastic and Hardy was genuinely scary, which must be hard to pull off with most of one's face covered. I loved the echos of BB ("A storm's coming" and the visual of a broken bat-mask). But when it comes to judging these works as films, TDK reigns supreme for me in script, cinematography, acting - the whole shebang.

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Old 07-28-2012, 06:33 PM   #113
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Default Re: Fear. Chaos. Pain. Vote for your favorite Nolan Batfilm!

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Originally Posted by LibraryKrystal View Post
Batman Begins 9/10
The Dark Knight 10/10
The Dark Knight Rises 6.5/10 ...7 if I've had coffee.

Perhaps having been a student of film - having taken in-depth classes in storytelling, storyboarding, editing, etc. - makes me more likely to nit-pick. I'll admit that. TDKR has many redeeming factors, but I can't shake my disappointment in some of the careless treatment of details, as well as the imbalance in character development/screen time (particularly in Cotillard's case). The twist ending felt a bit cheap.

That said, Michael Caine was fantastic and Hardy was genuinely scary, which must be hard to pull off with most of one's face covered. I loved the echos of BB ("A storm's coming" and the visual of a broken bat-mask). But when it comes to judging these works as films, TDK reigns supreme for me in script, cinematography, acting - the whole shebang.
Good post!

However, with all due respect, I cannot entirely agree.

I am sure film school is training you well. One of the biggest things I learned there was how difficult it is to shape gratifying endings. TDKR does this. Yes, Nolan employs a cheat, but in my humble opinion it is justified by the audience reaction/emotion it makes room for. It also allows the film's controlling idea to be expressed through an electrifying reveal. Something I learned in film school (and that I think about everyday as I storyboard) is the following: the audience will forgive everything if you give them a satisying emotion at a film's conclusion. It is the hardest thing to pull-off in a film story. TDKR does this powerfully.

Again, I like your post, your thinking, and respect your education. Just wanted to share a different point of view.



Last edited by DerTommissar; 07-28-2012 at 07:09 PM. Reason: clarity
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Old 07-28-2012, 06:58 PM   #114
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Default Re: Fear. Chaos. Pain. Vote for your favorite Nolan Batfilm!

^ That reminds me of the Ingmar Bergman quote:

"I DON’T WANT TO MAKE MERELY INTELLECTUAL FILMS. I WANT AUDIENCES TO FEEL, TO SENSE MY FILMS. THIS TO ME IS MUCH MORE IMPORTANT THAN THEIR UNDERSTANDING THEM."

Essentially, as long as the emotional resonance and impact is there, everything else is rather forgivable.

And I agree. Sometimes movies with even the most simplistic plots, or even the most holey and methaphorical storylines can be tremendous films purely due to their emotional - or even, in some cases, intellectual) relevance.

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Old 07-28-2012, 07:01 PM   #115
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Default Re: Fear. Chaos. Pain. Vote for your favorite Nolan Batfilm!

Furthermore, I think that plays into why I like TDKR so much. It succeeds for these two reasons:

The incredible emotional impact of all of the characters' various journeys from BB through TDKR.

The extremely clever and subtextually dense infusion of Knightfall, No Man's Land, and A Tale of Two Cities.

For me, those two aspects of the movie provide for an incredible amount of emotional and intellectual insight and entertainment and really make any remaining plotholes seem trivial and unimportant to the overall tapestry of the film.

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Old 07-28-2012, 07:08 PM   #116
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Nice posts CConn.

You are right: TDKR pays off not just one film, but THREE.

Quite a movie.

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Old 07-28-2012, 07:25 PM   #117
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Default Re: Fear. Chaos. Pain. Vote for your favorite Nolan Batfilm!

Mine is probably TDK, TDKR, then BB.

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Old 07-28-2012, 07:29 PM   #118
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Default Re: Fear. Chaos. Pain. Vote for your favorite Nolan Batfilm!

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I honestly do believe when people look back at cinema in the post-9/11 world of the Bush years, TDK will be one of the benchmark films that expressed the feelings of existential dread, disgust at some of our policies and wars and the obsession with hope and heroism that followed that tragic event (the papers about superhero films being a major product of national yearning have already been written).
Or maybe they'll just look at it as a great Batman story.

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Old 07-28-2012, 07:44 PM   #119
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Nice posts CConn.
And I didn't even need to go to film school to do it.

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Old 07-28-2012, 08:26 PM   #120
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Default Re: Fear. Chaos. Pain. Vote for your favorite Nolan Batfilm!

TDKR for me.

There's always been this clear distinction in my mind between BB and TDK.

BB was the more emotional and personal story. It was Bruce's story from the word go, and it had a lot of heart. It wasn't driven by an overly complex plot - it had a simple but powerful one. And it was a bit more fun... it wasn't afraid of being 'too Batman', or making some silly jokes.

TDK felt more like a story about society, represented thought this ensemble of characters, of which Bruce was just one. It had an intricate plot that made the audience think, it presented us with some powerful themes, and it had some great action sequences and acting performances... and it lost most of it's silliness. It seemed like it was shying away from being too 'comic booky'. It was the 'grown up' Batman movie.

With TDKR, I feel like the got they balance smack bang between the two.

Bruce's personal story was back in force. The emotion and heart was back. Some simpler story elements were back. Even some of the silliness was back.

And it felt like a Batman movie again. I felt like a big kid watching it, jumping up and down in my seat when The Bat flew out of that alleyway followed by the line 'are you sure it was him?' It's one of those moments where you just wanna jump up and down yelling 'Batman is sooooo coool!'

And THAT'S how a Batman film should make me feel.

Yet somehow, while bringing those things back from the first film (but even bigger and better), they managed to retain their use of intricate plots and powerful themes from the second. They managed to keep enough of the 'adult' stuff from TDK that it still makes the audience think, and still is a mirror of society in places.

It's just not 'ground in realism' as much as TDK. It has moments that are completely ridiculously over the top. That only work in the world of a superhero, where he always will be the one to defeat the impossible prison, or defeat the bad guy, or cheat death.

Which is exactly what a truly great superhero film should never try to avoid

Whenever I used to do fave movie lists, i'd always put BB/TDK together. Because I could never decide which I prefered... it was like choosing between one type of movie or another.

TDKR IS the two of them combined for me, and so it's very easy for me to put it above them both.

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Old 07-28-2012, 08:39 PM   #121
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I have to hand it over to Batman Begins. Every time I watch it, I get excited again seeing the reconstruction of the Batman mythos in the real world.

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Old 07-28-2012, 08:43 PM   #122
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Default Re: Fear. Chaos. Pain. Vote for your favorite Nolan Batfilm!

No matter which one is your favorite, we got some of the most bad ass Batman moments in all three:

BB
- Docks scene
- Saving Rachel
- Storm is coming
- Swear to me!
- Taste of your own medicine, doctor?
- Arkham escape with the Bats
- Chase scene with tumbler
- Final fight with Ra's on the train
- Rooftop ending with Gordon

TDK
- Batman's first appearance
- Bank vault crime scene
- MCU rooftop meeting with Dent and Gordon
- Honk Kong sequence
- Check the names...
- I'm counting on it
- Bat-pod ejects out of the Tumbler
- Interrogation of the Joker
- Beautiful isn't it?
- Prewitt Building fight with SWAT
- Whatever Gotham needs me to be

TDKR:

- First appearance in 8 years
- Saving Catwoman on the rooftop
- Stealth takedown's of Bane's mercenaries
- First fight with Bane
- Light it up
- Blake watching Batman lay waste to 4 of Bane's mercenaries
- Not everything, not yet
- Final showdown with Bane
- When the trigger is in my hand, then you have my permission to die
- Final chase with the Bat
- Reveal to Gordon and Goodbye kiss to Catwoman

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Old 07-28-2012, 09:11 PM   #123
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Default Re: Fear. Chaos. Pain. Vote for your favorite Nolan Batfilm!

Team Fear.

1.BB
2.TDK
3.TDKR

I love elements from all three films, but Batman was more mysterious and intimidating in BB.

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Old 07-28-2012, 09:19 PM   #124
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Default Re: Fear. Chaos. Pain. Vote for your favorite Nolan Batfilm!

Movie-wise, I like them all equally, however as far is the character itself, I love the BB portrayal of Batman, especially the fighting from the shadows, batarang, and the batsuit.

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Old 07-28-2012, 09:57 PM   #125
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Agreed.

After a second viewing, TDKR is quite tight. I remember thinking TDK had many holes the first time I saw it. Nolan's movies tighten up as you get to know them better and gather the details.
Exactly! Totally agree with this.

TDKR = TDK for me. While TDK has the more memorable, charismatic villian and tighter plot....TDKR has more epic fight scenes, a more intimidating villian, better acting by many of the side characters, better female leads, and a satisfying ending.


If TDKR was about 20-30 mins longer this would EASILY be the best of the trilogy.

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