Batman Returns vs Batman Forever?

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Originally Posted by TruerToTheCore

Returns is pure camp. It's the Adam West show with a gruesome twist and the writing of the third season.

And all the better for it...

[Bruce Malone]

Adam west show on a bad acid trip in a haunted house perhaps which is pretty neat.

[Fudgie]

Originally Posted by TruerToTheCore

Returns is pure camp. It's the Adam West show with a gruesome twist and the writing of the third season.

Nice description.

[GothamAlleys]

Originally Posted by TruerToTheCore

Because he lives in a dream reality.

Exactly. But thank god I have you, so you can tell me how it really is

[TruerToTheCore]

Originally Posted by GothamAlleys

Exactly. But thank god I have you, so you can tell me how it really is

That's the nicest thing you could have said

[GothamAlleys]

Thank you

[MagnarTheGreat]

Batman Returns > Batman Forever

...IMO.

[Ponyboy]

Originally Posted by TruerToTheCore

Returns is pure camp. It's the Adam West show with a gruesome twist and the writing of the third season.

It isn't Rocky Horror Picture Show (which is pure camp).

[TruerToTheCore]

Originally Posted by Ponyboy

It isn't Rocky Horror Picture Show (which is pure camp).

Okay... then which part should I take as serious?

The poodle?

The baby in the cage?

The exploding rocket penguins?

[Majik1387]

The rocket penguins of course. What would you do if a rocket penguin was next to you right now?

That's what I thought.

[HolyPurpleSocks]

For my personal taste, it's Forever.

I see what a large number of Burton fans see in Returns, I just see it more as a Burton movie starring Michelle Pfeiffer and DeVito, featuring Batman. I appreciate it, and still watch it often...just doesn't feel right as a Batman movie to me, though, in my bones.


Forever is the batfilm I grew up on primarily, the one I've seen more times than any other, so it may just be the nostalgia blinding me...but I really find they tried to dive into the mind of Bruce a bit more, bring the death of his parents back into the fold, and this is the first film that actually touches upon his motivations for becoming Batman and his origin. They show his parents funeral, speak about the cave he fell into, the bat which inspired him to choose that as his symbol, they brought in Dick Grayson (fun performance from O'Donnell, nothing Oscar worthy, but good) to mirror his 'orphaned' roots, and the death of his parents at the circus is what spurns this all on inside his very fractured psyche.

Pair that with the fact that Jim Carrey was a very fun and hammy villain, whose purpose was to literally pry into the minds of Gothamites, and the mind-trip Bruce was taking (while wooing a psychiatrist) and you have a film that touches upon a bunch of different intertwined themes and elements that connect quite well. Pile on the 'split persona' of Two-Face, and that dichotomy is paired alongside Bruce's identity crisis and want to give up the mantle. Don't forget that Two-Face blames Batman for creating him, Riddler blames Bruce, and both find out their mortal enemy is one and the same...some really good songs on the soundtrack, what I still feel is a solid score, a bunch of over-the-top camp (which I revel in) and the only proper attempt at bring a Robin's origin to the screen (who was my favorite character as a kid) and you can see what I see in it...right?

[Ponyboy]

Originally Posted by TruerToTheCore

Okay... then which part should I take as serious?

The poodle?

The baby in the cage?

The exploding rocket penguins?

I guess it depends on what you view as "camp." I only feel that one out of that lot of 3 is camp.

[American_Hobo]

I think overall Forever is just more entertaining movie than Returns.
For me, Batman Returns was too weird and depressing...also it was more like Tim Burton's dream world set in Gotham.
Batman Forever, despite its flaws, is just an highly entertaining movie.

[lordofthenerds]

Tough call. I found both to be mediocre, even if they did use very different artistic approaches to depict the character.

But I guess I'll go with Returns because I cringed a lot less when I watched it.

[Nite-Watchman]

Batman Returns. Its style is more akin to what I expect from a Batman movie, with gothic architecture, a melancholic atmosphere, a James Bond type romance.

[MartinPi]

Don't know why but Batman Returns was MY movie of my younger ages. At least Michelle Pfeiffer was one reason why I watched this movie for soooo often

[MartinPi]

Oh... I was melting as I saw a recent picture called "Catwoman Rises" of the photo model Susan Wayland... the pics forced me to watch Batman Returns again... LOL

[Bruce_Begins]

Batman Returns is like a gothic fairy tale with Batman, it is better than Batman' 89 in some parts.

[747]

Seriously, this poll is silly, it's not even near a competition.

Returns is truly great, Forever is highly mediocre.

[Drizzle]

Returns wins by a long shot. Batman Forever is now my least favorite Batman film to watch. Yes, even more so than Batman and Robin. I've learned to laugh at that film. But the worst thing about Forever, at least for me, is that both of its villains are Joker ripoffs. It's hard to imagine that for 13 years, that was the only portrayal of Two-Face on film. And it was a horrible one.

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Nobody ever seems to pull of Michelle's Catwoman suit in cosplay...

[DACrowe]

I didn't know why anyone thought this would be a contest.

BR has its problems--the general lack of story structure or narrative focus, the protagonist being a supporting character, sometimes an uneasy meshing of camp, gallows humor and gothic tragedy--but it is a very engrossing vision/bad dream that Tim Burton takes you on. You're in Burton's head and world and everything is related to developing Bruce Wayne/Batman's fractured psyche. It also draws rom German Expressionism both visually and narratively in how it develops Selina Kyle's tragic story and how she is a shadowy reflection of Batman. The movie ends not with a triumphant Batman, but one who while having stopped the villains failed to save Selina and only realized his own personal failings from his villainous reflections. He spends Christmas Eve reflecting on his own lonely self.

It's a strange movie, but full of vision and artistic sensibilities. Batman Forever is a McDonald's Big Mac. If you like fast food, it will get the job done, but it is bland, processed and utterly disposable. The only reason we talk about it here is we're fans of the character. For most other people, the movie disappeared from thought the second the credits began.

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Batman Returns is a brilliant film, Forever however is not.

[Majik1387]

Originally Posted by Pfeiffer-Pfan

Nobody ever seems to pull of Michelle's Catwoman suit in cosplay...

I think I've seen 2 at most.

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Originally Posted by Majik1387

I think I've seen 2 at most.

And did they pull it off?