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Old 07-31-2012, 05:55 AM   #51
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

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Originally Posted by Broker View Post
In his first scene with the mob Joker says that -

"Let's wind back the clocks. A year ago these cops and lawyers wouldn't have crossed any of you"

ie. Batman.



That's probably the closest to a time frame but it's nothing specific still. The joker is talking in general not to mention it seems he's referring to batman's involvement in aiding the police which may have come a little later on.

It's a good start but i don't think anyone can piece together an accurate timeline aside form the known 8 years between TDK and TDKR.

Does anyone know if those newspapers in TDK had any dates on them? because i beleive TDK took place in the present ie 2008.

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Old 07-31-2012, 05:57 AM   #52
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

Alot! He tracked down Falcone, found the Scarecrow. Found the Joker and fought him. Tracked finger prints. Found Bane & beat him......

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Old 07-31-2012, 06:38 AM   #53
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

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That's probably the closest to a time frame but it's nothing specific still.
It's hard to be more specific than the writers including a line that deliberately references the timeframe.

By the way, I agree completely that we aren't to take it by the letter. It's not 12 months on the dot and in that sense Joker's generalising.

But of course that line didn't make it in their accidentally. It was written in. Every line is drafted, re-drafted, and poured over. So, we know that the writer intentionally chose that specific amount of time. Had he felt the period was 2 years, then he would have written the line as 2 years.

So questioning it is somewhat strange.


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Old 07-31-2012, 08:51 AM   #54
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

Two things to consider for me;

The Dent act. Do people seriously believe the Dent act was written, established, enforced and worked overnight? This would have taken some time, and the city could not have become clean in the space of a few weeks. I would speculate that Batman was phased out over a 1-2yr timespan, still fighting for that time whilst being chased by the authorities. It's certain that Gordon, or whoever, would have had task forces after Batman. Gordon even says,'They'll chase him'. Of course he may not be speaking literally here, but logically let's assume that he was.

War hero. Foley says early on that Gordon was a war hero. Well, there was certainly no evidence of any type of war in BB or TDK, unless he s being entirely metaphorical. Again, would like to think that the repurcussions of TDK were heavily felt afterwards, and that there was a time of chaos and conflict for an established time, something like 2 years. Then Bruce comes to the realisation that Batman is no longer needed, and coupled with his body falling apart, put's the cowl away. He rigs the cave up with computers etc and does some behind the scenes surveillance and work for a few more years, then stops entirely for the remainign 2 yrs and basically degenerates into the Bruce we see at the start of TDKR.

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Old 07-31-2012, 08:53 AM   #55
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

Back before TDK came out, it was confirmed there was an 8-month gap between the two films. I thought this was common knowledge by now. I think it was on one of the viral websites.

Also, as far as I know, Batman Begins takes place over the course of a few months, same with TDK. So when Joker says "a year ago these cops and lawyers wouldn't dare cross any of you" makes sense because that would have been right before Batman showed up.

And we know the prologue of TDK is July 18th, 2008

Wind that back 8 months, the end of Batman Begins is November of 2007. If the film does take place over the course of some time, it has to have been after April (looking at the trees). So, Batman Begins must have taken place sometime between April and November of 2007, with it ending in November.

TDK must have ended before November (again, looking at the trees). So 8 years later (excluding the Prologue for TDKR which clearly takes place in the Summer), we're looking at October of 2016. So add in the 5 months for the bomb to decay, and we're looking at March of 2017 (snow is beginning to melt too).

Now the end sequence, everything starts to go green, spring/summer of 2017.


With all that in mind, he was only really active for about two years (compressing all his time in the suit), but that's two years spread across a lot of time. 2007/2008 & 2016/2017



That's not an official timeline, just how I've been able to make sense of it all.

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Old 07-31-2012, 09:15 AM   #56
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

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Do people seriously believe the Dent act was written, established, enforced and worked overnight? This would have taken some time, and the city could not have become clean in the space of a few weeks. I would speculate that Batman was phased out over a 1-2yr timespan
I understand the logic in your thinking, but I would say that it was made explicit that Batman has not been seen in 8 years.


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Old 07-31-2012, 09:27 AM   #57
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

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Foley says early on that Gordon was a war hero. Well, there was certainly no evidence of any type of war in BB or TDK
Of course he was a war hero.

Gordon, operating the Tumbler, was instrumental in saving the whole of Gotham and it's inhabitants from Ra's who was hell-bent on destroying the City with his microwave emitter.

In the year between BB and TDK both Gordon and Batman worked together to wage a two man war against serious organised crime in Gotham, specifically the Mob, and were successful.

He saved Gotham from a maniac and then eradicated serious crime, what more of a war do you want him to fight? LOL.


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Old 07-31-2012, 09:33 AM   #58
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

How can there be a very large span of time between when Batman first emerges and when Ra's comes to Gotham? That makes almost no sense. There may be a month or so between when he talks to Gordan for the first time and when he captures Falcone but after that it seems that the plot kicks into overdrive. Crane poisons Falcone to prevent him from talking which means it couldn't have been long after. Shortly after that Rachel goes into Arkham's basement and is saved by Batman. And shortly after that Ra's arrives in Gotham. No way that takes place over a year's worth of time, it's a few months at tops. Certainly not a year or two.

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Old 07-31-2012, 10:11 AM   #59
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

Yeah this is the only part I can't get behind in that timeline. Clearly Ras shows up at Bruce's 30th birthday party which takes place 2 days after Batman gets set on fire by Scarecrow.


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How can there be a very large span of time between when Batman first emerges and when Ra's comes to Gotham? That makes almost no sense. There may be a month or so between when he talks to Gordan for the first time and when he captures Falcone but after that it seems that the plot kicks into overdrive. Crane poisons Falcone to prevent him from talking which means it couldn't have been long after. Shortly after that Rachel goes into Arkham's basement and is saved by Batman. And shortly after that Ra's arrives in Gotham. No way that takes place over a year's worth of time, it's a few months at tops. Certainly not a year or two.

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Old 07-31-2012, 10:12 AM   #60
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

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He comes back Gotham at age 29 and creates Batman, fights Ra's on his 30th birthday, and then he takes the fall for Dent's crimes and disappears (presumably) less than a year later. In TDKR, that was the last known sighting until he returns 8 years later for a short period of time and then fakes his death.

Anyway, Nolan's Batman is a deconstruction of the idea of Batman. It's a disease Bruce Wayne had to be cured of in his point of view in order to move on with his life, and it was better for an ex-cop that wasn't driven by the same things as Bruce to presumably take over his job. And of course, in order for Bruce Wayne to move on with his life, he had to fake his death and exile himself from Gotham entirely--which is what Alfred wanted. Not too happy with this or the logic behind some of it, but there it is.
I agree with your latter points completely. Batman was always in this series just a guise that Bruce had to use in order to achieve his objective of cleaning up Gotham. But it was always Bruce who was fighting crime and not Batman. Nolan was more interested in Bruce Wayne than his superhero alter-ego Batman. Someone wrote some time ago that Nolan prefers heroes with faces, everyday people who do heroic things, and had a dislike for superheroes and their trappings. I would tend to agree with that completely.

Just look at TDK and TDKR, Nolan spends alot of screen time in both focusing on everyday heroes in Dent and then Blake. I would say in the case of both films that they are as much Dent's and Blake's film as they are Batman/Bruce Wayne's. Which I understand in some ways as Nolan was working to transition the protection of Gotham from Batman back to the people of Gotham, in the form of an exceptional everyman. But at the same time, I am kind of troubled that Batman is getting second billing in his own film.

Now I love TDK and BB. Both are excellent films. But at the same time having seen TDKR it is so obvious to me that Nolan never really was all that interested in Batman as a character. He loves Bruce Wayne, but feels Batman is only a means to an end. If that makes sense.

I have to admit that I was disappointed that Batman was out of service for that entire 8 years. I was always of the opinion that Batman should have been out there for a year or two after the events of TDK, continuing to fight crime while being a wanted man. Then at some point after the Dent Act takes effect and starts working, he slowly recedes into the shadows.

In the end, it is Nolan's series to do what he wishes. I just would have liked Nolan to have his Bruce struggle to let go of Batman and have Batman be as important of a character as Bruce.

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Old 07-31-2012, 10:13 AM   #61
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

As per the 8 year gap it's really never specifically said when he stopped being Batman. I'm assuming he continued on briefly after TDK but in almost total secret. Maybe only lightly communicating with Gordon.

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Old 07-31-2012, 10:17 AM   #62
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

This is actually a pretty good topic. I never once even thought about it, but yeah he wasn't batman for very long.

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Old 07-31-2012, 11:08 AM   #63
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

I don't think it's as important how long, technically, as how long it felt. And it felt like a lifetime. The events in each of the three stories were virtually history-changing in their scope/magnitude...each like a war to those involved. So that's plenty to take up a lifetime.

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Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:24 AM   #64
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

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I understand the logic in your thinking, but I would say that it was made explicit that Batman has not been seen in 8 years.
By the police. Or rather "confirmed sighting." That does not mean he was not quietly involved in some way. It could explain his injuries and why he bothered to rebuild the batcave. Alfred even said, "You haven't been down her in a while, sir." If he retired when Dent died (before the mansion was even done being rebuilt), he would never have been down there.

It would takes months for the Dent Act to pass, if not a year. It would then takes months or even years for it to be fully enacted. In that time, there would be the "war" Foley spoke of. Perhaps Batman played a secret part in it. There were bound to be some copy cats inspired by the Joker. In fact, if there were more theatrically-themed villains (the Riddler? A black mask wearing gangster? Ivy the eco-terrorist? A Lewis Carroll-obssessed predator?), it would explain why nobody bats an eye to Catwoman wearing such a theatrical costume in TDKR. It's par for the course in Gotham post-Joker.

Most of those guys would be sent to Arkham and could be raving about the Batman which Gordon would dismiss. I admit this is speculation, but it logically makes sense more than just quitting cold turkey. Though the movie never explains this aspect.

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Old 07-31-2012, 11:29 AM   #65
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

I don't know why there's such a raging debate over it. Nolan's wasn't trying to be subtle here. When Blake says the night Dent died was the last time Batman was seen, Nolan's saying that's the last time Bruce donned the cape and cowl.

Bruce also said to Gordon in the hospital "The Batman wasn't needed any more. We won", to which Gordon replied "Based on a lie". It's blatantly obvious to me that once Harvey died a hero Batman was put out to pasture.

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Old 07-31-2012, 11:34 AM   #66
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

From another thread:

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The only time I remember it mentioned that he hadn't been seen was from Foley said, when he told Blake after squad cars chasing Bane spotted Batman, that the "last confirmed sighting" was on the night of Dent's death. I don't know, I thought it still left room for some low key activity from Bats.

I don't remember Bruce telling Gordon that after Dent's death Batman wasn't needed. I'll have to see the film again to confirm, but I don't remember him even mentioning Dent's death to Jim in the hospital. He did say they'd won, which was why he retired.
But that's the thing...if there was any 'activity' after Dent's death, it was so low key and non-eventful that it's basically insignificant. So for all intents and purposes, he was retired for the full eight years. Aside from not being a 'constant' thing like comics, perhaps some fans see that as some sort of abandonment of duties...like it's somehow out of character for Batman. It's really not if Gotham didn't actually need him to take care of its major crimes...and as we see, the time off has not been kind, most notably because he does seem to yearn to be Batman again.

So the circumstances of such a long sabbatical are different than the 'norm', but the character is still very much Batman because it hasn't sat well with him.

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Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:36 AM   #67
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

I am not trusting that timeline in the new books. It makes no sense for Batman to have been active 2 years before the Joker shows up in TDK. Some weird retconning there.

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Old 07-31-2012, 01:06 PM   #68
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

As long as you want to think that he did .
BB and TDK dont specifically say the first six months and the next six months .
I imagine a 2 year gap between the first two films.
So, 4 years active .
And,even though he was retired for 8 years,
Batman was still wanted by the police .
That means he was part of the consciousness of Gotham City For 12 years .
Just look at it in real time .
There is nothing in the story that says that you cant.

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Old 07-31-2012, 01:13 PM   #69
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Of course he was a war hero.

Gordon, operating the Tumbler, was instrumental in saving the whole of Gotham and it's inhabitants from Ra's who was hell-bent on destroying the City with his microwave emitter.

In the year between BB and TDK both Gordon and Batman worked together to wage a two man war against serious organised crime in Gotham, specifically the Mob, and were successful.

He saved Gotham from a maniac and then eradicated serious crime, what more of a war do you want him to fight? LOL.
Erm, you make it sound as though this was all out in the open...common knowledge as it were. Gordon working with Batman was only known between three people. Him operating the Tumbler was not a public act of heroism. No-one would know this. Hence it being illogical to be referred to as a war hero.

However, I would concede that Foley could be referring to the cleaning up of the streets. But in that case to call him a war hero is exaggeration, and I still think it makes sense for there to have been a large outburst after Dent's death, and then all those prisoners put into Blackgate(not without a fight). Batman most likely would have been active for the aftermath, if we're being logical. He just had to do it from the shadows...hence last confirmed sighting. This is my speculation though and of course you're version works aswell.

And as has been pointed out, Bruce has been in the Bat-cave because Alfred references it. How or why would he have done that, or even built the thing if he retires on the night Dent died. It makes sense for him to have been active in some capacity for a year, perhaps two, before realising the city didn't need a Batman anymore.

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Old 07-31-2012, 01:38 PM   #70
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

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It would takes months for the Dent Act to pass, if not a year. It would then takes months or even years for it to be fully enacted. In that time, there would be the "war" Foley spoke of. Perhaps Batman played a secret part in it. There were bound to be some copy cats inspired by the Joker. In fact, if there were more theatrically-themed villains (the Riddler? A black mask wearing gangster? Ivy the eco-terrorist? A Lewis Carroll-obssessed predator?), it would explain why nobody bats an eye to Catwoman wearing such a theatrical costume in TDKR. It's par for the course in Gotham post-Joker.

Most of those guys would be sent to Arkham and could be raving about the Batman which Gordon would dismiss. I admit this is speculation, but it logically makes sense more than just quitting cold turkey. Though the movie never explains this aspect.
My head canon. I wish the film implied something similar. It would have only needed but a few lines.

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Old 07-31-2012, 01:44 PM   #71
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

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I don't know why there's such a raging debate over it. Nolan's wasn't trying to be subtle here. When Blake says the night Dent died was the last time Batman was seen, Nolan's saying that's the last time Bruce donned the cape and cowl.

Bruce also said to Gordon in the hospital "The Batman wasn't needed any more. We won", to which Gordon replied "Based on a lie". It's blatantly obvious to me that once Harvey died a hero Batman was put out to pasture.
Oh I completely agree. I just wanted him to be Batman for at least three years and there is enough head scratching elements (Bruce's limp, a rebuilt batcave that would have been unneeded if he quit the night Dent died), as well as the logic that it would take at least two years for any piece of legislation to be passed and come into full effect on the street that can let fans go, "but..."

So, I am fine with that.

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Old 07-31-2012, 01:44 PM   #72
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By the police. Or rather "confirmed sighting." That does not mean he was not quietly involved in some way. It could explain his injuries and why he bothered to rebuild the batcave. Alfred even said, "You haven't been down her in a while, sir." If he retired when Dent died (before the mansion was even done being rebuilt), he would never have been down there.

It would takes months for the Dent Act to pass, if not a year. It would then takes months or even years for it to be fully enacted. In that time, there would be the "war" Foley spoke of. Perhaps Batman played a secret part in it. There were bound to be some copy cats inspired by the Joker. In fact, if there were more theatrically-themed villains (the Riddler? A black mask wearing gangster? Ivy the eco-terrorist? A Lewis Carroll-obssessed predator?), it would explain why nobody bats an eye to Catwoman wearing such a theatrical costume in TDKR. It's par for the course in Gotham post-Joker.

Most of those guys would be sent to Arkham and could be raving about the Batman which Gordon would dismiss. I admit this is speculation, but it logically makes sense more than just quitting cold turkey. Though the movie never explains this aspect.
But if they were somehow mentioned without being seen or portrayed in a movie, it'd make it that much more insignificant and/or redundant that they weren't put together for the main plot of a third film...especially if it were to entail renown rogue characters like Black Mask and such. The expanse of eight years always had a primary purpose of establishing a long break/absence and setting up Batman's return. If they didn't want it to be absent, then they probably wouldn't have gone with the idea of moving so far ahead in time to begin with.

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Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:48 PM   #73
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A 6 year absence is still pretty long. Most people miss Bruce only became a recluse three years prior to TDKR, not eight. I am just saying logically the Dent ACt would not change things overnight and Bruce has injuries in TDKR he did not have at the end of TDK and has a batcave he did not have at the end of TDK. So, fans can think what they want in that regard.

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Old 07-31-2012, 01:59 PM   #74
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A 6 year absence is still pretty long.
They decided to make it 8. It's a good length because it doesn't quite put Wayne substantially past 40 so he has some physical gas left to do the job, but it close enough to a decade which is a right away a solid benchmark of time to pass to make that time away significant.


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Most people miss Bruce only became a recluse three years prior to TDKR, not eight. I am just saying logically the Dent ACt would not change things overnight and Bruce has injuries in TDKR he did not have at the end of TDK and has a batcave he did not have at the end of TDK. So, fans can think what they want in that regard.
Here's the thing....the movie itself indicates that he was gone, for all intents and purposes, from being Batman for eight years, starting the night that Dent died. Whether or not they did that 'logically' enough is up to your tastes et al, but the actual story/movie that they made had him absent the whole time. We can like or not like how it was done, but it is what's there and what's intended....with other possibilities only being what-if's on our part. It wasn't meant to be eft up to interpretation of leave openings for that possibility.

You may feel that it should have been some more time of him being Batman, I may feel that the 8 yr absence was a good idea that wasn't quite executed well enough...but either way, Batman absolutely was inactive for the full eight years as per this story. I do think you're acknowledging that distinction, but it is a distinction between what fans can imagine, and what the story intends to present. And I think it revolves more around what some Bat-fans specifically see their favorite character as, than the internal 'logic' the story presents..which itself is fine as long as you're just not inherently opposed to the concept.

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Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)
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Old 07-31-2012, 05:09 PM   #75
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Default Re: How long did Nolans Batman actually fight crime?(SPOILERS)

I'm not opposed to the concept.

But tell me why did he rebuild the batcave and why did he go down there for years later (note Alfred saying "You haven't been down here for a while")?. Why did he have such a bad leg injury?

The story certainly says eight years, but there are enough questions about what happened in those eight years that are not explained.

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