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View Poll Results: Who was your FAVORITE Couple within the Series?
Bruce Wayne & Rachel Dawes: Batman Begins & The Dark Knight 19 12.67%
Bruce Wayne & Miranda Tate: The Dark Knight Rises 3 2.00%
Bruce Wayne/Batman & Selina Kyle/Catwoman: The Dark Knight Rises 117 78.00%
Other 11 7.33%
Voters: 150. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-02-2012, 10:31 PM   #101
Zatanna
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Default Re: Who was your FAVORITE Couple within the Series?

Finally, I'm seeing more of my POV in this thread, that there really wasn't a romance at all between Bruce and Selina in this.

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Old 08-02-2012, 11:03 PM   #102
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Default Re: Who was your FAVORITE Couple within the Series?

I was definitely feeling some Han/Leia The Empire Strikes Back style of chemistry between Bruce/Selina. I liked it. Wasn't too heavy. Wasn't too light. Just right.

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"The Dark Knight Trilogy" is such a pretentious title, I'm leaning more towards "RISES: The Dark Batman Knight Begins".

That's much better.
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Old 08-02-2012, 11:07 PM   #103
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Default Re: Who was your FAVORITE Couple within the Series?

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Originally Posted by Zatanna View Post
Finally, I'm seeing more of my POV in this thread, that there really wasn't a romance at all between Bruce and Selina in this.
The other two were also barely romances.

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You officially have no life.
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Old 08-02-2012, 11:39 PM   #104
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Default Re: Who was your FAVORITE Couple within the Series?

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The other two were also barely romances.
I know. As someone said, romance was the weak point of this series.

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Old 08-02-2012, 11:50 PM   #105
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Default Re: Who was your FAVORITE Couple within the Series?

Here:

Why does it have to be an epic love story between them?

If you mean by romance, did they fall in love throughout the movie? No. But there is an immediate attraction and admiration for them in various alteregos. When Selina robs Bruce he isn't upset, but bemused. She literally kicks the cane out form under him and wakes him up to the outside world. It's what prompts him to go to the batcave for the first time in years to research her. He says its for the pearls and fingerprints, but it's obvious he is smitten with her and admires her. Alfred even teases him about it. It is one of the key reasons he leaves the estate for the first time in three years. When he appears at the dance, he is genuinely flirting with her and not as his usual act and she is bemused by him and lets him have the pearls (and a kiss) which is more than I'd say she lets her usual marks get away with. She also later allows him into her apartment. And as Catwoman, we see she has some type of fangirl crush on Batman (she would have been a teenager during the events of BB/TDK) given how she reacts to him showing up on the TV and then when she's sitting in the back of the Bat.

And then, yes, she ends up redeeming herself by helping him save the city. When it looks like he's going to die, she acts on her obvious attraction to him by giving him a kiss. Does all this mean they're in passionate love? No. It means they're very obviously attracted to one another and respect/admire the other's abilities. All that said, if they both want to disappear from Gotham can I believe they would give dating a shot? Sure. Why not? It's not like we saw them have kids running around at the end. Though, I do wonder if they did get serious during the intervening months as she is wearing his mother's pearls.

I wish they had more screen time, but I bought the characters and their relationship. So it does work.

I posted this in another thread.

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Old 08-03-2012, 07:05 AM   #106
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Here:

Why does it have to be an epic love story between them?

If you mean by romance, did they fall in love throughout the movie? No. But there is an immediate attraction and admiration for them in various alteregos. When Selina robs Bruce he isn't upset, but bemused. She literally kicks the cane out form under him and wakes him up to the outside world. It's what prompts him to go to the batcave for the first time in years to research her. He says its for the pearls and fingerprints, but it's obvious he is smitten with her and admires her. Alfred even teases him about it. It is one of the key reasons he leaves the estate for the first time in three years. When he appears at the dance, he is genuinely flirting with her and not as his usual act and she is bemused by him and lets him have the pearls (and a kiss) which is more than I'd say she lets her usual marks get away with. She also later allows him into her apartment. And as Catwoman, we see she has some type of fangirl crush on Batman (she would have been a teenager during the events of BB/TDK) given how she reacts to him showing up on the TV and then when she's sitting in the back of the Bat.

And then, yes, she ends up redeeming herself by helping him save the city. When it looks like he's going to die, she acts on her obvious attraction to him by giving him a kiss. Does all this mean they're in passionate love? No. It means they're very obviously attracted to one another and respect/admire the other's abilities. All that said, if they both want to disappear from Gotham can I believe they would give dating a shot? Sure. Why not? It's not like we saw them have kids running around at the end. Though, I do wonder if they did get serious during the intervening months as she is wearing his mother's pearls.

I wish they had more screen time, but I bought the characters and their relationship. So it does work.

I posted this in another thread.
Indeed. The set up was there. The romance happened off camera. She ended up with his mother's pearls. It's not something he would give to a casual friend or fling. Definitely implies significant other.

I actually liked how Nolan handled their relationship without hitting us over the head with it.

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Old 08-03-2012, 08:22 AM   #107
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Rachel and Harvey

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Old 08-03-2012, 08:32 AM   #108
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Maroni and the girl he was with at the club

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Old 08-03-2012, 09:12 AM   #109
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Truthfully, I don't have one. Gotham isn't the place for couples, it seems. This is probably the least romance-driven trilogy I think I've seen.

That is as it should be. Bruce Wayne doesn't lend himself well to romantic storylines -- though they tried in the Burton and Schumaker movies. He's obsessive. He's driven. He is, at base, married to his crusade. Rachel understood that ... which is why that 'relationship' went absolutely nowhere.

Rachel and Dent were a genuine couple, I guess ... 'til the Joker killed her and burned his face off. So much for that.

Wayne and Miranda Tate weren't a couple. She was using him, and him her (or so he thought). He needed a soft place to land ... and someone to take control of Wayne Enterprises to keep it from Daggett. She was a mole, and needed to infiltrate Wayne Enteprises. She hated him. That's the opposite of a 'relationship'.

Even with the ending -- I just don't get the feeling that Wayne is the type to settle down with Selina Kyle and have a couple of bat-rugrats. I get the feeling he'll take a vacation ... and eventually his obsession will overtake, and he'll be drawn back in to the war on crime. It is his nature. He lives for it. It has already happened once. Selina Kyle is also a thrill-seeker ... so she's probably not out of the game either. They may be perfect for each other insofar as they are both completely unmarriagable. The fact that they are equally obsesssed and thrill-seeking is why they'll never last.

As much as various teenybopper fangirls might wish otherwise ... there are precisely zero longstanding romantic relationships in this thing. It just doesn't fit with the core characters.

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Except that goes againt the comics and the theme of this series. The legend ends. As Nolan has said, Bruce's arc is over. He isn't becoming Batman again, and Selina isn't becoming catwoman again. Those two were always kindred spirits in the comics, and it makes sense that now that they are starting fresh, they ended up together. And no, I am not some teenybopper fangirl. I'm a 25 year old male. It would defy all logic to think that Bruce is suddenly going to become Batman again despite everything Nolan has told us. In Nolan's world, this is it for Bruce. He gets his happy ending. The end. As for Selina, a huge subplot was her wanting the clean slate. After getting, it she's not going to go back to her old ways. The book also makes this obvious. She is said to want to completely reinvent herself. And the fact that Nolan has Bruce give her his mother's pearls is also quite significant and symbolizes a massive thing between them.


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Old 08-03-2012, 09:20 AM   #110
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There were couples in this series? The only one that comes to mind was Harvey and Rachel.

It was never revealed whether Bruce and Selina were a couple, nor was their relationship developed.
It was made painfully obvious. She ended up with his mother's pearls, and before that they had a passionate kiss and she asked him to run away with her. Perhaps you need a second veiwing. The book also does a great job of showing their growing bond. Selina also fills the role of "wife" in the cafe scene because Alfred always told him he hoped to see him there with a wife and possibly some kids. Not to mention that it's Bruce and Selina. The most iconic couple in the batman mythos. As for your empty kiss comment... yeah, you really need to watch the movie again. Their second kiss was meant to be very passionate, and it was meant to show us how her feelings have changed. The official novel also makes it a point to show how it's different from the first kiss, how's it;'s not a challenge anymore but is very tender and yet strong. The book also does a great job of showing us how guarded Selina is. She always puts up barriers to keep people out, so the fact that she asks Bruce to run away with her is a huge, huge deal. She's actually letting someone in,


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Old 08-03-2012, 11:18 AM   #111
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It was made painfully obvious.
Maybe to you, but if it was, I don't think there would be so much debate about it.


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Perhaps you need a second veiwing.
No need for this kind of comment, is there? I don't understand the big deal about the differing opinions. You can believe what you want, but so can others. It's real NOT a big deal if somebody ended up interpreting Bruce and Selina a different way. And it kind of irritates me to see posts like this. I wouldn't reply otherwise, but I don't appreciate posts that make it seem like "it's my opinion or the high way".

I've been to 3 viewings btw, and I've come out of the theater all 3 times with the same opinion.

I won't even bring the novel into this, because it's obviously different from the film in more ways than one.


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Old 08-03-2012, 12:01 PM   #112
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It was made painfully obvious. She ended up with his mother's pearls, and before that they had a passionate kiss and she asked him to run away with her. Perhaps you need a second veiwing. The book also does a great job of showing their growing bond. Selina also fills the role of "wife" in the cafe scene because Alfred always told him he hoped to see him there with a wife and possibly some kids. Not to mention that it's Bruce and Selina. The most iconic couple in the batman mythos. As for your empty kiss comment... yeah, you really need to watch the movie again. Their second kiss was meant to be very passionate, and it was meant to show us how her feelings have changed. The official novel also makes it a point to show how it's different from the first kiss, how's it;'s not a challenge anymore but is very tender and yet strong. The book also does a great job of showing us how guarded Selina is. She always puts up barriers to keep people out, so the fact that she asks Bruce to run away with her is a huge, huge deal. She's actually letting someone in,

Who cares about the novel?

And I've seen the movie multiple times. There's a difference between something being 'meant' to do something, and the actual execution of it.

Nolan left it vague. He hinted at a possible romance, but we barely ever saw it. It could have just as easily been a friendship.

The buildup to the 'romance' was weak too. It wasn't believable that they would have a future together. They barely hit it off romantically in this film.

Bruce and Selina as a 'couple' was really something that *could* have happened offscreen towards the end, but it was really never portrayed onscreen. It almost shouldn't qualify in this poll for that reason.

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Old 08-03-2012, 12:02 PM   #113
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Maybe to you, but if it was, I don't think there would be so much debate about it.


No need for this kind of comment, is there? I don't understand the big deal about the differing opinions. You can believe what you want, but so can others. It's real NOT a big deal if somebody ended up interpreting Bruce and Selina a different way. And it kind of irritates me to see posts like this. I wouldn't reply otherwise, but I don't appreciate posts that make it seem like "it's my opinion or the high way".

I've been to 3 viewings btw, and I've come out of the theater Mall 3 times with the same opinion.

I won't even bring the novel into this, because it's obviously different from the film in more ways than one.
Much debate? LOL. Look at the stats. And if some people can't appreciate the subtleties of what Nolan was trying to convey with the ending, then there's not much we can do about it, can we.

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Old 08-03-2012, 12:03 PM   #114
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Much debate? LOL. Look at the stats.
I wasn't even really just talking about this site. But I've seen it debated elsewhere as well.

As for the rest of your comment, wow.

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Old 08-03-2012, 12:05 PM   #115
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Who cares about the novel?

And I've seen the movie multiple times. There's a difference between something being 'meant' to do something, and the actual execution of it.

Nolan left it vague. He hinted at a possible romance, but we barely ever saw it. It could have just as easily been a friendship.

The buildup to the 'romance' was weak too. It wasn't believable that they would have a future together. They barely hit it off romantically in this film.

Bruce and Selina as a 'couple' was really something that *could* have happened offscreen towards the end, but it was really never portrayed onscreen. It almost shouldn't qualify in this poll for that reason.
I'd agre with you if there wasnt that last scene with pearls. That spoke volumes of what Nolan was trying to convey

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Old 08-03-2012, 12:14 PM   #116
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Who cares about the novel?

And I've seen the movie multiple times. There's a difference between something being 'meant' to do something, and the actual execution of it.

Nolan left it vague. He hinted at a possible romance, but we barely ever saw it. It could have just as easily been a friendship.

The buildup to the 'romance' was weak too. It wasn't believable that they would have a future together. They barely hit it off romantically in this film.

Bruce and Selina as a 'couple' was really something that *could* have happened offscreen towards the end, but it was really never portrayed onscreen. It almost shouldn't qualify in this poll for that reason.
It wasn't that vague to most of us. They kissed passionately. She asked him to run away with her, and he did, eventually. He gave her his mother's pearls (which is huge symbolism), and they are filling Alfred's fantasy of seeing Bruce with a wife. There's too much symbolism there to think that Bruce and Selina are just buddied after all that. Perhaps to you, the execution was lame, and that's fine if you think so, but I think Nolan's intent was clear.

The novel is a great way to get a deeper look at many of the scenes and the characters. Emma Thomas even assisted Greg Cox during the writing of it.

It was very believable to most of us that they would end up together and start their new lives together, and to assume that after the kiss and after asking him to run away with her, Selina would just friendzone Bruce... that requires you to ignore a lot of logic, a lot of symbolism, a lot of foreshadowing, and a lot of exposition. Bruce would not give his mother's pearls(the only thing he has left of her) to someone who is just his buddy. And if the Nolan bros wanted us to think they are just friends, Selina wouldn't have the pearls, and she wouldn't have kissed him when a bomb is about to go off and time is precious. The pearls on her was a great way to show that Bruce is moving on from Rachel. Jonah even wrote that scene before that where those people can't find the pearls to show what a big deal they are.


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Old 08-03-2012, 12:16 PM   #117
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Default Re: Who was your FAVORITE Couple within the Series?

The Joker and a #2 pencil.

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Old 08-03-2012, 12:17 PM   #118
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I wasn't even really just talking about this site. But I've seen it debated elsewhere as well.

As for the rest of your comment, wow.
I understand that you don't want them to be together, but Nolan made it as obvious as he is ever going to do with a romance. Bruce and Selina can never be platonic pals, that completely goes against their characters. They've always been kindred spirits in the comics. And as I said to superman lives- It wasn't that vague to most of us. They kissed passionately. She asked him to run away with her, and he did, eventually. He gave her his mother's pearls (which is huge symbolism), and they are filling Alfred's fantasy of seeing Bruce with a wife. There's too much symbolism there to think that Bruce and Selina are just buddies after all that. Perhaps to you, the execution was lame, and that's fine if you think so, but I think Nolan's intent was clear.

The novel is a great way to get a deeper look at many of the scenes and the characters. Emma Thomas even assisted Greg Cox during the writing of it.

If you found their romance to lame and mild and not well written, that's fine. That's your opinion. But the end is the end. It was already clear even if Selina wasn't wearing the pearls, but the fact that the Nolan bros made her wear the pearls in the end just seals the deal. To come to the conclusion that after the kiss and asking him to run away with her, Selina just friendzones bruce... that requires you to ignore lots of logic, symbolism, foreshadowing, and exposition.


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Old 08-03-2012, 12:20 PM   #119
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I understand that you don't want them to be together, but Nolan made it as obvious as he is ever going to do with a romance.
And I never said that. I've never had a problem with Bat/Cat. Kindly don't assume.

Agree to disagree, sorry. That's all I have left to say.

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Old 08-03-2012, 12:24 PM   #120
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Maroni and the girl he was with at the club
Their love was shown through their deep communication skills.

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Old 08-03-2012, 12:26 PM   #121
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And I never said that. I've never had a problem with Bat/Cat. Kindly don't assume.

Agree to disagree, sorry. That's all I have left to say.
There really is nothing to disagree about. I understand that the interaction might not have been to your liking, but the obvious stuff can't just be swept under the rug. You can't ignore the passionate kiss, her asking him to run away with her, and then her having his mother's pearls in the end. Bruce would not have given his mother's precious pearls to a buddy. And if Nolan wanted us to think they're buddies, she wouldn't be wearing those pearls, and she wouldn't have kissed him.

I'm sorry, but this is not a debate. The execution was flimsy, but the intent was clear.

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Old 08-03-2012, 02:02 PM   #122
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Who cares about the novel?

And I've seen the movie multiple times. There's a difference between something being 'meant' to do something, and the actual execution of it.

Nolan left it vague. He hinted at a possible romance, but we barely ever saw it. It could have just as easily been a friendship.

The buildup to the 'romance' was weak too. It wasn't believable that they would have a future together. They barely hit it off romantically in this film.

Bruce and Selina as a 'couple' was really something that *could* have happened offscreen towards the end, but it was really never portrayed onscreen. It almost shouldn't qualify in this poll for that reason.
See my previous post on how it was developed.

I again fail to see why the relationship is bad if Nolan chose to focus on their attraction and growing fascination with each other and then leave it to the characters to find a life after the curtain ends. If it is executed well, which I think it is, is it really a mark against the film just because it wasn't a full blown romance shown on screen?

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Old 08-03-2012, 02:09 PM   #123
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As for the best relationships in the film (i.e. not necessarily of a romantic variety), I'd rank them:

1. Bruce and Alfred: A true surrogate father/son relationship that only deepens with each film.

2. Batman and Jim Gordon: They develop a true friendship and with intertwined fates since the day Bruce's parents were killed.

3. Batman and the Joker: "You complete me..."

4. Bat/Cat: See above posts.

5. Bruce and Lucius Fox: A very playful camaraderie developed over three movies.

6. Batman and Harvey Dent: A short but powerful alliance that meant a lot to both and when it falls apart, it is ruinous for both men.

7. Bruce and Ra's: The corrupt surrogate father figure is throughout literature and even comic films (see SM1 and IM1), but it is done very well here.

8. The Joker and his knives.

Actually, eight should probably be higher.

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Old 08-03-2012, 03:08 PM   #124
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See my previous post on how it was developed.

I again fail to see why the relationship is bad if Nolan chose to focus on their attraction and growing fascination with each other and then leave it to the characters to find a life after the curtain ends. If it is executed well, which I think it is, is it really a mark against the film just because it wasn't a full blown romance shown on screen?
Exactly. Her asking him to leave with her and then kissing him sealed the deal for her. As for him, he gave the biggest gesture he could: he gave her his mother's pearls (the only thing he has left of his mother). And now the script has come out and refers to them as "a couple" during the cafe scene. The novel does the same thing.

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Old 08-03-2012, 04:20 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by kthevs View Post
Except that goes againt the comics and the theme of this series. The legend ends. As Nolan has said, Bruce's arc is over. He isn't becoming Batman again, and Selina isn't becoming catwoman again. Those two were always kindred spirits in the comics, and it makes sense that now that they are starting fresh, they ended up together. And no, I am not some teenybopper fangirl. I'm a 25 year old male. It would defy all logic to think that Bruce is suddenly going to become Batman again despite everything Nolan has told us. In Nolan's world, this is it for Bruce. He gets his happy ending. The end. As for Selina, a huge subplot was her wanting the clean slate. After getting, it she's not going to go back to her old ways. The book also makes this obvious. She is said to want to completely reinvent herself. And the fact that Nolan has Bruce give her his mother's pearls is also quite significant and symbolizes a massive thing between them.
Nolan's 'Legend' is over. The story itself clearly continues -- Blake takes the mantle for the moment. Whether you want to think Wayne's Batman comes back when Blake gets himself in over-his-head is up to you. Maybe to train him (Beyond). Maybe to form Batman, Inc. Maybe to take back the cowl, pick up the slack, and kick Blake's ass to Bludhaven.

Selina Kyle wants a fresh start. She got one. She has a clean slate ... no criminal record. If she wants the thrill-seeking without the record in the future, she could always adopt an alter ego and wear a disguise (that actually hides her face). Wonder where she'd get an idea like that.

KBZ

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