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Old 08-03-2012, 02:53 PM   #26
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VII (Team Frenchie Edition) - Part 7

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Yes but the actor must have some common sense for the director to remark when a performance sucks.
Yeah but final word is belong to Nolan. Bale said in interview that he says Nolan that he can play the scene differently for other use but Nolan is very direct about what he wants.

It's not easy for an actor to realize if they played the scene good or not. Also sometimes directors have interesting choices noone can understand why.

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Old 08-03-2012, 03:36 PM   #27
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VII (Team Frenchie Edition) - Part 7

Its Nolans fault the take is in the film.

Marion gave the laughable performance.

They share any blame there.

An actor of Marion's caliber should be able to play a death scene and know whether it worked or not.

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Old 08-03-2012, 03:43 PM   #28
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VII (Team Frenchie Edition) - Part 7

maybe they didnt have enough time to do more takes. you know how obsessed Nolan is with filming everything outside where he has no ful control over the weather and time.

he didnt film Marion with greenscreen when she walks into the tumbler.

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Old 08-03-2012, 03:50 PM   #29
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VII (Team Frenchie Edition) - Part 7

Nolan wasn't motivated for this movie, we see now the damage. Couple years ago I would never think Nolan will rush a movie...

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Old 08-03-2012, 03:53 PM   #30
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VII (Team Frenchie Edition) - Part 7

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Nolan wasn't motivated for this movie, we see now the damage. Couple years ago I would never think Nolan will rush a movie...
Please. One bad scene. There was superb action scenes & acting most of the movie.

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Old 08-03-2012, 03:54 PM   #31
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VII (Team Frenchie Edition) - Part 7

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Please. One bad scene. There was superb action scenes & acting most of the movie.

There is not only that bad scene which make me think about that.

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Old 08-03-2012, 05:43 PM   #32
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VII (Team Frenchie Edition) - Part 7

Come to think about it now that I was reminded on a tumblr blog post, (Spoilers for a Batman animated TV show)
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
"Talia" faking her feelings for Bruce is sort of what happened in Batman Beyond. Except Ra's al Ghul literally inhabited her body (as opposed to metaphorically in TDKR), which was revealed as a major twist to the story.

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Originally Posted by Batman Beyond: Out of the Past


Talia (secretly Ra's al Ghul): I want to broaden my philanthropic corporation to every nation. Think of the good we could do if we joined forces. A dream for the world and a dream for ourselves.


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Old 08-03-2012, 07:36 PM   #33
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VII (Team Frenchie Edition) - Part 7

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The more I think about it, the more I realize that she's easily Nolan's worst written villain. She had zero redeeming qualities.

We don't know if Ra's was genuine in his fondness for Bruce or if that was all a form of manipulation on his part but we definitely felt something when he and Bruce were at odds in the end. Bane might've blown people to pieces but his past with Talia humanize him. Two-Face was obviously sympathetic. The Joker and Scarecrow were just fun in general. Talia was none of that. She wasn't even remotely interesting when she was Tate.
It's funny you say that, essentially what I took away from Begins was that Ra's was being genuine and that he and Bruce were cut from the same cloth, both brought to the LoS by personal tragedy and injustice. You can make the argument about the whole 'theatricality and deception' thing which is fine in my book, it was open to interpretation, until Rises solidified the question, which to me is the biggest shame of the movie. Essentially for people like me Begins is no longer open to interpretation, it's black and white thanks to TDKR, and that is one of my biggest gripes with Rises is that how I've viewed Begins for the last 7 years is now wrong. Up until 2 weeks ago in my mind Ra's didn't have a family, the LoS was dead, there was a genuine brothers in arms feeling between the two, now all that is gone and I'll never be able to watch Begins the same way again.

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Last edited by jmc; 08-03-2012 at 07:41 PM. Reason: grammar
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Old 08-03-2012, 07:43 PM   #34
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

I really wish they hadn't made 2 of the 3 films essentially about the LOS. BB was great. But then to come back to that again for the 3rd was a bummer. Batman has one of the widest rogues gallarie of any superhero. So many interesting villians to chose from. For me, the combo of Bane and Talia was a bad choice. It did feel to me like Nolan just didnt care and took the script that they had and decided it was good enough to film and ran with it.

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Old 08-03-2012, 07:45 PM   #35
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

I think they cared, but I think they just went about things the wrong way. If you're going to go full circle there should be reason for it, Rises has no reason for doing it.

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Old 08-03-2012, 08:53 PM   #36
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VII (Team Frenchie Edition) - Part 7

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It's funny you say that, essentially what I took away from Begins was that Ra's was being genuine and that he and Bruce were cut from the same cloth, both brought to the LoS by personal tragedy and injustice. You can make the argument about the whole 'theatricality and deception' thing which is fine in my book, it was open to interpretation, until Rises solidified the question, which to me is the biggest shame of the movie. Essentially for people like me Begins is no longer open to interpretation, it's black and white thanks to TDKR, and that is one of my biggest gripes with Rises is that how I've viewed Begins for the last 7 years is now wrong. Up until 2 weeks ago in my mind Ra's didn't have a family, the LoS was dead, there was a genuine brothers in arms feeling between the two, now all that is gone and I'll never be able to watch Begins the same way again.
Yeah I hear ya. There are actually a lot of BB scenes that were kinda ruined for me because of TDKR. I can't even look at my favorite scene of Bruce being engulfed by the bats in the cave without thinking that someone else who doesn't even have a remote emotional connection to bats will have the exact same scene in TDKR.

FWIW I still like to think that Ra's genuinely cared for Bruce and he looked at him as his own son. He doesn't seem to have a good relationship with Talia anyway. Heck Ra's might've favored Bruce over Talia to take over his throne which I'm sure royally pissed Talia off. I think I would just conveniently forget some of the stuff for TDKR so it doesn't completely ruin BB and TDK for me.

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Old 08-03-2012, 09:47 PM   #37
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

This thread makes me sad.

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Old 08-03-2012, 09:51 PM   #38
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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This thread makes me sad.
why?

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Old 08-03-2012, 09:54 PM   #39
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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why?
Because there is so much potential to Talia as a character knowing what we know of her from the comics. Yet, the way she's presented in the movie was kind of a let down. Marion's performance, to the way the story was written for her, I just feel like it could have been better. I mean, there's not many good things to say about her role except for the way she played a couple lines, or a scene or two.

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Old 08-03-2012, 09:55 PM   #40
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

Actually, even Marion riding in the truck during the finale seems off. When she's saying s#!* a few times she looks bored or something.

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Old 08-03-2012, 09:57 PM   #41
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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Because there is so much potential to Talia as a character knowing what we know of her from the comics. Yet, the way she's presented in the movie was kind of a let down. Marion's performance, to the way the story was written for her, I just feel like it could have been better. I mean, there's not many good things to say about her role except for the way she played a couple lines, or a scene or two.
Yeah, she was more of a "twist" than a character. But then again, last thing i would like to see Talia stealing scenes from major characters in the end of trilogy. I'm fine with it. She made a surprise, connected Bruce,Ra's & Bane together with the story.

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Old 08-03-2012, 10:46 PM   #42
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VII (Team Frenchie Edition) - Part 7

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Yeah I hear ya. There are actually a lot of BB scenes that were kinda ruined for me because of TDKR. I can't even look at my favorite scene of Bruce being engulfed by the bats in the cave without thinking that someone else who doesn't even have a remote emotional connection to bats will have the exact same scene in TDKR.

FWIW I still like to think that Ra's genuinely cared for Bruce and he looked at him as his own son. He doesn't seem to have a good relationship with Talia anyway. Heck Ra's might've favored Bruce over Talia to take over his throne which I'm sure royally pissed Talia off. I think I would just conveniently forget some of the stuff for TDKR so it doesn't completely ruin BB and TDK for me.
Thing is I don't want Rises to be the Terminator 3 of the series where I basically ignore that it happened. Sad thing is I'm not even sure I'm going to end up buying it on DVD. So much potential wasted.

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Old 08-04-2012, 01:43 AM   #43
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

Saw the movie again today, this time on IMAX. I'm sure it's been discussed, but I definitely noticed that nearly every one of Miranda's lines was a hint to her real identity, but in that Nolan way where you couldn't possibly catch them the first time. It was probably good for the filmmakers to keep the twist secret, even though it was totally obvious to us fans.

Nolan would never cast Marion Cotillard as an ordinary citizen.

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Old 08-04-2012, 01:46 AM   #44
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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Saw the movie again today, this time on IMAX. I'm sure it's been discussed, but I definitely noticed that nearly every one of Miranda's lines was a hint to her real identity, but in that Nolan way where you couldn't possibly catch them the first time. It was probably good for the filmmakers to keep the twist secret, even though it was totally obvious to us fans.

Nolan would never cast Marion Cotillard as an ordinary citizen.
All of my work friends found the Talia reveal to be great. They aren't comic book fans, so it definitely worked a lot better in their eyes.

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Old 08-04-2012, 02:15 AM   #45
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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All of my work friends found the Talia reveal to be great. They aren't comic book fans, so it definitely worked a lot better in their eyes.
Agreed, the people I was with and the entire audience I was with gasped at her reveal, it certainly helps avoiding too many spoilers before going into a film I have learnt, just ruins the surprise for yourself in the end. Thats the trouble when fans scramble to find out every single detail before a films release, it must be hard work to keep everything under wraps as a writer/director with everyone after a scoop.

In the end its the fans that lose out themselves, I'm just glad I managed to avoid the Talia twist for my first viewing, more than made up for her death scene

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Old 08-04-2012, 02:16 AM   #46
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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All of my work friends found the Talia reveal to be great. They aren't comic book fans, so it definitely worked a lot better in their eyes.
Yeah, this. Everyone I know who saw it all thought the twist was awesome and did not see it coming. Even I was impressed with how it was executed and I knew about it for over a year. Talia served a purpose to the plot and helped bring the trilogy full circle. She may have been underwritten, but she had a decent role and I was happy to see her in a Batman film finally. I'm satisfied.

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Old 08-04-2012, 02:27 AM   #47
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

Her monologue to Bruce hits hard for me, and I'm surprised it hasn't seemed to for a lot of the folks online. It's true the average viewer was shocked by the reveal, but the real punch of the scene was when in the first time in the series, the facade of Batman crumbled and all that was left was a hurt Bruce Wayne- he uses his real voice as opposed to his "Batman" voice. I found the contrast powerful in what it meant to Bruce, and her delivery of the story with flashback I found moving and dually powerful, making it altogether one of my favorite moments of the film.

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Old 08-04-2012, 03:10 AM   #48
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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Saw the movie again today, this time on IMAX. I'm sure it's been discussed, but I definitely noticed that nearly every one of Miranda's lines was a hint to her real identity, but in that Nolan way where you couldn't possibly catch them the first time. It was probably good for the filmmakers to keep the twist secret, even though it was totally obvious to us fans.

Nolan would never cast Marion Cotillard as an ordinary citizen.
I noticed that with her very first line, and actually on the very first time I saw the movie. You sly dog, Nolan.

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Old 08-04-2012, 03:19 AM   #49
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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Agreed, the people I was with and the entire audience I was with gasped at her reveal, it certainly helps avoiding too many spoilers before going into a film I have learnt, just ruins the surprise for yourself in the end. Thats the trouble when fans scramble to find out every single detail before a films release, it must be hard work to keep everything under wraps as a writer/director with everyone after a scoop.

In the end its the fans that lose out themselves, I'm just glad I managed to avoid the Talia twist for my first viewing, more than made up for her death scene
but no fan said that the twist was bad in the movie. Nolan is a good filmmaker and the twist is a good build up. we are saying for 2 weeks now that her character is not good enough.

please lets not act like the fans are complaining that they couldnt enjoy the twist because they know her from the comics.

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Old 08-04-2012, 04:09 AM   #50
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VII (Team Frenchie Edition) - Part 7

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Its Nolans fault the take is in the film.

Marion gave the laughable performance.

They share any blame there.

An actor of Marion's caliber should be able to play a death scene and know whether it worked or not.
pretty much this, I'm not really sure how that got a pass and made it into the movie.

For the record though I think she is fine in the rest of the movie. The knife story could have been silly; like something the villain had been rehearsing in front of mirror in case they ever needed it, but I think she pulled it off.


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