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Old 08-04-2012, 08:27 PM   #76
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

The funny thing is... I knew as well about Catwoman "betraying" Batman in the sewer fight and yet I still felt more about that scene rather than Tatelia stabbing Batman. The sad thing is, Bruce and Miranda technically should have a stronger bond than Batman/Catwoman at that point. Miranda "saved" WE, she and Bruce became intimate, etc. while by the time Catwoman "betrayed" Batman, the only thing those 2 shared was her stealing from him, some flirtations, and a dance.

It's really unfortunate because Bale and Marion sold the reveal/betrayal so well. It's just that there wasn't really a foundation for it.

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Old 08-04-2012, 08:28 PM   #77
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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Yeah...really.

So, I think I have it: Somehow, people complaing about the lack of substance leading up to and after the twist is because we knew about the twist beforehand. Which makes no sense, as it really isnt a judgment on the twist itself.

Its just funny that there are critics, who probably didnt know the twist beforehand, who still dissed Marion's role/performance after their first viewing. I wonder what the explanation for their "tainted" view is.
And there are other critics who praised Marion who didn't know the twist(Richard Roeper being a case in point).

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Old 08-04-2012, 08:33 PM   #78
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

There is nothing wrong in Marion's performance except death scene. If you want Talia to be different, that's something else. She was quiet wifey material until reveal and then creepy femme fatale in stabbing scene and getting into car.

Some critics talk stupid things about Bane as well. People loved it though.You can't rely on critics more than casual movie viewer.

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Old 08-04-2012, 08:33 PM   #79
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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The funny thing is... I knew as well about Catwoman "betraying" Batman in the sewer fight and yet I still felt more about that scene rather than Tatelia stabbing Batman. The sad thing is, Bruce and Miranda technically should have a stronger bond than Batman/Catwoman at that point. Miranda "saved" WE, she and Bruce became intimate, etc. while by the time Catwoman "betrayed" Batman, the only thing those 2 shared was her stealing from him, some flirtations, and a dance.

It's really unfortunate because Bale and Marion sold the reveal/betrayal so well. It's just that there wasn't really a foundation for it.
This, really.

But get ready for your opinion to be invalidated, because the gen audience loved the twist, so you're wrong for thinking the way you do, lol.


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And there are other critics who praised Marion who didn't know the twist(Richard Roeper being a case in point).
That's nice.

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Old 08-04-2012, 08:34 PM   #80
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

I don't think Miranda was underdeveloped. She didn't have an arc, really, she was a fully formed character, but I think she was a complex one, particularly in the subtle ways she related to Bruce:

Encouraging Bruce to trust the world, to do what is necessary, to return to philanthropy, and criticizing his apathy; chastizing Dagget for only caring about money; the fact that she is persistently seeking out Bruce to talk about the energy project. Picking up Rachel's photograph in the Manor, and saying, "I'll protect your parents legacy" and "Where's Alfred?", hitting all the right spots of his vulnerability. Her background as a child; her relationship with Bane, her conflicted relationship with her father, etc.

I don't see how you can say she is underdeveloped. Small amount of screen time does not equal underdeveloped. You can say she should have had more screen time, or the twist was stupid, or even if you want that Marion acted poorly (although I disagree), but she certainly isn't underdeveloped.

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Old 08-04-2012, 08:36 PM   #81
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

Interesting. I felt less in Catwoman betrayal scene. Maybe because Batman was already asking for it.

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Old 08-04-2012, 08:41 PM   #82
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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This, really.

But get ready for your opinion to be invalidated, because the gen audience loved the twist, so you're wrong for thinking the way you do, lol.




That's nice.

Yeah, it is. I'm glad I liked the movie, even after I ruined a lot of the experience for myself by spending the last year learning everything about it. I'm glad that the movie was even better for those who let themselves experience the movie as Nolan intended.

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Old 08-04-2012, 08:53 PM   #83
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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The funny thing is... I knew as well about Catwoman "betraying" Batman in the sewer fight and yet I still felt more about that scene rather than Tatelia stabbing Batman. The sad thing is, Bruce and Miranda technically should have a stronger bond than Batman/Catwoman at that point. Miranda "saved" WE, she and Bruce became intimate, etc. while by the time Catwoman "betrayed" Batman, the only thing those 2 shared was her stealing from him, some flirtations, and a dance.

It's really unfortunate because Bale and Marion sold the reveal/betrayal so well. It's just that there wasn't really a foundation for it.
My problem wasn't so much with the reveal as it was to do with her and Bruce becoming intimate. It felt like it just came out of nowhere. Like there was no build up, or any real insight into the nature of their relationship to one another.

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Old 08-04-2012, 08:58 PM   #84
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

Actually if anything cotillard and bales acting made the stabbing pretty damn poignant, even for me who knew ahead of time. The cat woman "betrayal" wasn't nearly as emotional at all. And the batman you can't simply ignore and cherry pick. There's hundreds of critics who reviewed the movie who thought the twists were great. And I still say any of us who knew ahead of time really can't complain about it. At all. It's really one of those things that needs the element of surprise. The cat woman betrayal was telegraphed in all the trailers. The talia one.. Quite frankly.. We weren't supposed to know.

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Old 08-04-2012, 09:05 PM   #85
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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Characterization was weak not the twist, some of you guys are overkilling it. Like it was predictable,boring or unnecessary etc.
Well it is predictable and unnecessary if it's not executed in a way that makes us give a damn about the character, so yes it is a weak twist because there isn't something in there for everyone. I bring up the Harvey Dent comparison again. Even though we knew of Dent's fate it sucked when it happened because he was the driving force of the story, it mattered because the best person of the three in Batman, Gordon and Dent was the one who lost. If Talia turning on Bruce was also a foregone conclusion it needed to cut us as deeply as it was 'meant' to cut Bruce. But it doesn't, the character is so under developed that her 'turn' is emotionally empty, the ones who seem to be ok with and justifying it's presence are the ones who come across as simply wanting Talia to be in the movie. I've never understood the desire for this character in this series, especially when this film proves she works best when her father is alive.

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Old 08-04-2012, 09:08 PM   #86
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

Whether you wanted talia or not, (I didn't).. It was still something you weren't supposed to know. Even dent was shown as two face in some trailers. This was a twist that was a movie ruiner, and unfortunately here on this board we knew last August.

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Old 08-04-2012, 09:10 PM   #87
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

I was naive enough to believe Nolan had something else planned. I had myself convinced that all those shots done out in public meant nothing and that Nolan wouldn't be shooting such an important plot device outside for cameras to see. 'He wouldn't be that careless, this is Chris Nolan we're talking about' I said to myself. Sadly, I was wrong and gave the man too much credit.

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Old 08-04-2012, 09:11 PM   #88
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

There were at least 3 twists (or 3 parts of the twist) regarding Miranda

1) She is the child/heir of Ra's al Ghul, not Bane.
2) She stabs Batman out of nowhere.
3) She reveals her identity is fraudulent. She's Talia.

It was a great moment that Bale, Cotillard, and Hardy delivered here. I just wished for a more Vesper Lynd-like lead-up to it and got a very watered-down version of it, though they compensated for it a little bit by making her the final villain instead.

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Old 08-04-2012, 09:12 PM   #89
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

Does stabbing Batman really count as a twist?

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Old 08-04-2012, 09:14 PM   #90
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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Whether you wanted talia or not, (I didn't).. It was still something you weren't supposed to know. Even dent was shown as two face in some trailers. This was a twist that was a movie ruiner, and unfortunately here on this board we knew last August.
Plus it's pretty common knowledge that Harvey Dent becomes Two Face.It wasn't a question of "if", it was a question of "when".

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Old 08-04-2012, 09:14 PM   #91
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

Eh, I think that all kinda falls under the one 'twist'.

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Old 08-04-2012, 09:32 PM   #92
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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]But get ready for your opinion to be invalidated, because the gen audience loved the twist, so you're wrong for thinking the way you do, lol.
Heheeh. I saw TDKR for a third time with someone who hadn't seen trailers or anything (in other words someone from the general audience), and they said to me they thought the Talia reveal was weak and predictable, and they didn't do much of anything with it anyway.

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Old 08-04-2012, 09:39 PM   #93
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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I was naive enough to believe Nolan had something else planned. I had myself convinced that all those shots done out in public meant nothing and that Nolan wouldn't be shooting such an important plot device outside for cameras to see. 'He wouldn't be that careless, this is Chris Nolan we're talking about' I said to myself. Sadly, I was wrong and gave the man too much credit.
It's not about being careless. Time is changed. It'll happen to any movie especially not shooted in studio. They can record everything with far away in good quality with a mobile.

Back in the day you would hear spoilers after movie in theaters and if some moron would tell you. Now we get news from ninjas everywhere.It'll happen most of the really hyped movies.

I have watched Wolverine without special effects before in theaters. It was all greenscreen, ropes bunch of stuff. At least that didn't happen with TDKR

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Old 08-04-2012, 09:49 PM   #94
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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It's not about being careless. Time is changed. It'll happen to any movie especially not shooted in studio. They can record everything with far away in good quality with a mobile.

Back in the day you would hear spoilers after movie in theaters and if some moron would tell you. Now we get news from ninjas everywhere.It'll happen most of the really hyped movies.

I have watched Wolverine without special effects before in theaters. It was all greenscreen, ropes bunch of stuff. At least that didn't happen with TDKR
For such a secretive movie that spoiler got out remarkably easy. So, yeah I think it was careless if they were so adamant to keep it a surprise. They failed miserably.

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Old 08-04-2012, 10:01 PM   #95
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Old 08-04-2012, 10:15 PM   #96
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

Have you ever heard friend with benefits?

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Old 08-04-2012, 10:20 PM   #97
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

I don't even like to think about Talia and Bane as lovers because here, he's significantly older, and that's just icky. He knew her as a child, and he was already a man. So yeah, friendzoned.

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Old 08-04-2012, 10:22 PM   #98
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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That gif is implying a grown man romantically loved a not yet teen girl... Yeah,.. No

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Old 08-04-2012, 10:22 PM   #99
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

Personally, I think he's more of like her surrogate father. Like he's her "Alfred". It won't stop others from thinking otherwise of course.

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Old 08-04-2012, 10:23 PM   #100
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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Personally, I think he's more of like her surrogate father. Like he's her "Alfred". It won't stop others from thinking otherwise of course.
Going by what I've seen on tumblr, you're right lmao.

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