Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 5

[AvengeME]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

You seem to think that Fox is holding all the cards; I see the opposite. Fox has a LOT more to prove in rebooting a successful FF and/or DD, and the general consensus is that they can't. MS, on the other hand, has just made one of the biggest blockbusters of all time. And Marvel doesn't *need* Galactus and the Surfer to make Cosmic Marvel work: they've already proven that they've got Thanos and the GOTG and Inhumans, and Feige has confirmed that they can use Skrulls (just not Super-Skrull, who combines the powers of the FF).

Plus, I don't consider DD inconsequential to Marvel, either. If Carnahan is ready to go on the film, Marvel will be just as likely to want to work with him as Fox is.

Marvel will greenlight a 70's themed Frank Miller inspired DD reboot with Carnahan? Never going to happen in a million years.

Marvel doesn't have leverage until Fox fast approaches a deadline. We know how quickly Fox can put a film in production. Look at how quickly First Class came together. FF fills a tentpole and Fox doesn't have any big summer film in 2015. Since the turn around seems to be seven years, Fox has until Spring/Summer 2014 to get FF into production. No need to rush.

If I had to predict, I say Fox lets DD go unless Carnahan blows them away with a pitch. Meaning it may be another seven years before DD rights turn over. I think there is little doubt we get a major Marvel film in 2015 that isn't neccessarily Avengers 2. Most likely candidate is FF. It will either be a distribution deal where Fox gets a cut, or Fox will produce the film on their own. I think Marvel will be involved regardless, and it will be more collaborative than Sony/ASM, because there is a ton of overlap between the universes.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by AvengeME

Marvel will greenlight a 70's themed Frank Miller inspired DD reboot with Carnahan? Never going to happen in a million years.

They went with Edgar Wright, didn't they....? If they're okay with EW's R-rated adult-targeted fare to handle an Ant-Man movie, I don't think they'd blanch at Carnahan and Frank Miller. Plus: look at Patty Jenkins and Alan Taylor's resumes.

Marvel doesn't have leverage until Fox fast approaches a deadline.

I think October --- less than 2 months away --- qualifies as a fast-approaching deadline.

[ares834]

I'm still holding out on hope that the deadline report is incorrect. After all, that is the only place I have seen denying the rumors and it is according to "his" sources. And truthfully, I do think it makes sense. FF have plenty of villians, and seeing how Fox treated Galactus in RotSS, I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to let him go.

[AvengeME]

Which is why Fox immediately shut down that report. It would have been a complete hose job. It doesn't matter if Fox already featured Galactus and SS in a campy FF sequel. Those are staple characters and you don't give them up to extend DD rights.

No doubt Marvel will play hardball. But a DD movie right now is just meh. These reboots are getting tiresome. GR failed. ASM underperformed. I think Fox may be content letting it go. It's not the end of the world if they do, and the character will sit at Disney for a while anyhow.

[Willie Lumpkin]

Originally Posted by comics

Is it known that Galactus and Silver Surfer are part of FF as a whole, that for Marvel to get both it has to buy the entire FF franchise? Or are they separate properties?

My understanding is that they (along with Dr. Doom and presumably characters like Mad Thinker, Moleman, Puppet-Master etc.) are controlled by Fox as a part of their FF rights.

But the agreement can be re-written in any way that both parties agress to. If, for example, Marvel offered $40 million for Galactus alone and said: "You can keep Silver Surfer." They could rewrite the contract.

Any contract can be changed and renegotiated. It's just a matter of both parties agreeing on the terms.

[AvengeME]

What can Fox expect to do without those villains? They can't use Namor. Can't use BP. They can't use a version of Skrulls or the Inhumans. Annihilus is the only major baddie they have left besides Doom. Most of the other villains are bleh. There is no way Fox can just give these characters up for what may amount to nothing.

[ares834]

Doom is all you need.

[TheGuy]

Originally Posted by ares834

Doom is all you need.

But that would be a limited franchise.

[Project862006]

Originally Posted by comics

But that would be a limited franchise.

if x men had magneto as a core villian in pretty much every x men film i dont see a problem here

[AvengeME]

They also have Sebastian Shaw, Stryker, Sentinels, and God knows who else down the line.

[Chewy]

And Stryker was a random minor villain from a little-known arc before X2, which just goes to show you any villain can work if the story is right and they fit into it well

[AvengeME]

Fantastic Four needs an epic scale. Monumental landmarks and discoveries. Namor/Atlantis fits the bill. Space threats fit the bill. Terrestrial villains outside of Doom will be pretty lack luster on the big screen. Unlike X-Men which is a more grounded, real world setting, which works for that property. FF needs to have a huge scope. I don't think Mole Man and Puppet Master provide the stories you want to adapt on the big screen.

[Chewy]

Mole Man's subterranean setting is as grand as any other

[Willie Lumpkin]

Originally Posted by Chewy

Mole Man's subterranean setting is as grand as any other

Yeah, it just has to be done right.

[Steve Holt]

Let fox continue with their F4 film, but give Marvel creative control, split profits 60 (fox) 40 (Marvel) for the first film and renegotiate for and sequels. Have it be set in the MCU, that way Fox gets to capitalise on The Avengers with marketing and such and Marvel gets to use F4 characters in their films.
Effectively a co-production movie wise, but Marvel would have creative control story wise

[metaphysician]

Fox doesn't have Namor, they can't use him. He was one of the characters held by Universal before he reverted ( at the same time the Hulk did, IIRC ).

[babykhris]

What's all this talk about working with FOX? They have NEVER played fair with Marvel/Disney. A day after the merger what they do announce they were going to make new DD & FF films.

Wasn't their an article saying FOX would do everything it could to keep Marvel properties away from Disney? Look at Comic Con they were talk the same thing. NO DEALS we want it all (not all we're never getting the X-Men back)

[AvengeME]

Originally Posted by babykhris

What's all this talk about working with FOX? They have NEVER played fair with Marvel/Disney. A day after the merger what they do announce they were going to make new DD & FF films.

Wasn't their an article saying FOX would do everything it could to keep Marvel properties away from Disney? Look at Comic Con they were talk the same thing. NO DEALS we want it all (not all we're never getting the X-Men back)

There has been ongoing reports of trading and swapping characters. Working together? Not necessarily. But Universal and Paramount have already worked in tandem with Marvel/Disney.

I don't see a Universal/Hulk type deal though where Fox gets a measley portion of the box office. Unless they get a huge upfront sum. I could see swapping of certain characters.

[babykhris]

But wasn't Universal & Paramount just distro. Marvel owned the characters over there.

Unless FOX wants to give up OWNERSHIP of certain characters I say no dice.

[AvengeME]

Originally Posted by babykhris

But wasn't Universal & Paramount just distro. Marvel owned the characters over there.

Unless FOX wants to give up OWNERSHIP of certain characters I say no dice.

Yes on Paramount. No on universal because they had the rights in 03. Fox is giving up ownership on DD in a few months so unless they do something about it, there goes that character. Which is why Marvel probably offered that deal to Fox.

If I am Fox, I don't handcuff myself by limiting my rogue gallery. I also don't want to rehash certain characters and stories like Doom and Galactus, or a half arsed Skrulls that I own some aspects of but not everything.

Marvel also wants to get some C-list characters exposure. FF is a great platform to launch those characters. Look at the success of SS from that model. Would BP/Namor have a better chance of being successful in solo films or in FF movie? Seems obvious. I don't want to cram all those characters in Avengers either. I think Marvel and Fox can temporarily swap characters if they wanted to. It's trickier than exclusive control, but far more productive.

[Sebastos]

Originally Posted by AvengeME

Fantastic Four needs an epic scale. Monumental landmarks and discoveries. Namor/Atlantis fits the bill. Space threats fit the bill. Terrestrial villains outside of Doom will be pretty lack luster on the big screen. Unlike X-Men which is a more grounded, real world setting, which works for that property. FF needs to have a huge scope. I don't think Mole Man and Puppet Master provide the stories you want to adapt on the big screen.

It does indeed, but Namor is with MS.

[spideymouse]

Originally Posted by AvengeME

Yes on Paramount. No on universal because they had the rights in 03. Fox is giving up ownership on DD in a few months so unless they do something about it, there goes that character. Which is why Marvel probably offered that deal to Fox.

If I am Fox, I don't handcuff myself by limiting my rogue gallery. I also don't want to rehash certain characters and stories like Doom and Galactus, or a half arsed Skrulls that I own some aspects of but not everything.

Marvel also wants to get some C-list characters exposure. FF is a great platform to launch those characters. Does BP/Namor have a better chance of being successful by themselves or in FF movie? I don't want to cram all those characters in Avengers either. I think Marvel and Fox can temporarily swap characters if they wanted to. It's trickier than exclusive control, but far more productive.

Well, you're right and wrong about Universal. They did the distribution for TIH in 2008 in a similar way Paramount did for the other MCU movies.

Good point about the C-list characters; this whole time we have been working under the assumption that Marvel Studios wouldn't have FF at their disposal to introduce BP or Namor (and so we've been defaulting to solo movies or Avengers introductions), but it's definitely been exciting to even open up the FF conversation, even if it won't happen!

[psylockolussus]

I don't think I'd be happy if Silver Surfer and Galactus is gonna appear in MCU first before the Fantastic Four. If FOX are gonna give the rights to Marvel for some of their characters, it shouldn't be just Silver Surfer, Galactus, The Watcher. It should be all of the Fantastic Four characters. If not, FOX should just continue rebooting Fantastic Four and let Daredevil go back to Marvel.

[TheVileOne]

Originally Posted by AvengeME

Marvel will greenlight a 70's themed Frank Miller inspired DD reboot with Carnahan? Never going to happen in a million years.

Is 20th Century Fox? I doubt it.

[Destructus86]

It's clear Marvel wants the rights back BADLY. I wouldn't be surprised if there are negotiations going on right now. Especially for FF going back to Marvel. I think that's a franchise they've wanted back since they started Marvel studios.