Justice League Status Updates Thread - Part 1

[shauner111]

I can also say that the Justice League is more popular than Avengers with people. Ive seen more references on tv (Big Bang Theory and various other sitcoms) for JL compared to Avengers over the last 15 years. Animated as well.

From my experiences with ppl, they seem to be able to name a good chunk of the JL lineup. Nobody (and these are GA types or the odd CBM goer) seem to know who Martian Manhunter is, or Cyborg. But they get the rest right. Avengers? Maybe it's because they've had so many members over the years but before the movie, these "people" thought Spider-Man was a part of the team. And they mention Iron Man, Hulk and Captain America and maybe Thor but ive never heard them mention Hawkeye, Black Widow or know who Ant-man/Wasp are. Before 2011 it was rare for me to hear Thors name at all.

So maybe that means nothing to some. But it does make a bit of difference. People need to get over it. JL and a good chunk of its heroes are just "larger" characters and ill say it til the death...they dont need the level of setting up.

[Jake Cassidy]

^ If it wasn't for the movies, most people wouldn't know much about the Avengers at all. Maybe Cap and Iron Man, but none of them come close to Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman in terms of iconic status.

Wonder Woman's costume change got more media exposure than Captain America's "death". That says it all.

[Eddie Brock]

Originally Posted by Radioactive1980

Who said anything about Blake as Batman?
Blake would obviously assume the role of Robin or Nightwing, whilst Batman, now that his body has been rejuvenated by 'the pit' could easily be brought back if something happened to disturb his happy ending with Selina.

Ruining the perfect ending that Nolan crafted would be worse than rebooting.

[The Guard]

Gimme a break.

Batman and Superman are cultural icons yes.

Wonder Woman? Perhaps in the 1970's when the live action show was airing. But kids of today, non comic readers, I'm not so sure and I'd be surprised if any of em knew who The Flash or Aquaman were. As for GL same thing before the film came out- non comic readers (lets say the youth demographic- teens to 25) had probably never heard of him. We're not talking Spidey and the Hulk here. Flash, WW etc might be giants in comics, but there has not been anything significant in other media that has kept them in the public consciousness outside of comics.

It doesn’t matter that they're not giants outside of comics. They're known entities, unlike most of Marvel's characters prior to the Avengers members' solo films and THE AVENGERS

Green Lantern may have been more or less a complete unknown to people before the movie. He is not anymore. Even if you didn't see the movie, you'd have to be living under a rock not to know that symbol on a green field now, after that marketing campaign.

Go to a mall in the last few years. Go to a toy store. DC superhero merchandise/clothing/toys etc is everywhere, much like Marvel's characters, except that for DC, its happened before the solo films/team up film were released.

Wonder Woman is an instantly recognizeable symbol/character. She's basically a female icon, along with Supergirl.

And as I mentioned, Green Lantern's symbol is instantly recognizeable, as is The Flash's lightning bolt. People know who they are.

And pretty much everyone knows who Aquaman is, even if they think he's a joke.

Point is, people, especially WB's target audiences, know who they are, even if they don’t know much about them. You can’t say this about some of Marvel’s characters prior to their solo films and THE AVENGERS.

[CConn]

Yup, The Guard's right. Anyone disagrees that Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman aren't apart of our social consciousness simply doesn't understand the nature of the beast.

[Radioactive1980]

Originally Posted by shauner111

Now is a little different than pre-Avengers. Iron Man is huge now, Captain America and Thor are known by every little kid whether they own comics or not.

I was mainly talking about pre-Downey/Stark vs what it's always been for Batman/Superman, etc.

Well, you said Avengers did not have the A-listers like JL 'have'- present tense. Granted Thor, Cap, Hawkeye and Widow were not AS well known as they are now, but EVERYONE already knew who Iron Man and Hulk were.
If you're talking about The individual Avengers fame/public recognition before the movies, then only the Hulk is on the same level as Batman and big blue.

Originally Posted by shauner111

"JL has Superman and Batman and bunch of characters no one outside of comics knows of, 'cept for maybe WW"..that is wrong. Everybody has heard of at least Flash and Aquaman. Especially Flash, and definately Wonder Woman. No question. Everybody and their grandmother.

I don't know if things are different in America (I'm in the UK), but kids today (non comic reading teens) do not know who The Flash is, or WW or Aquaman. Theese characters have not produced cartoons, or popular enough videogames that have kept them in the public eye. I am a comicbook reader since 1990, and I could not even tell you the first thing about Aquaman. The only reason I even know what he looks like is because I am old enough to have blurred memories of a naff cartoon from some 30 years ago.

Originally Posted by shauner111

Even now, not everybody knows who Captain America and Thor are. You have to be pretty shut off, but im not lying. And as popular as Iron Man has been in the last 4 years, he will never be an A-List character to a lot of people. You take Downey out of the suit and i guarantee he's back to being a B-List superhero like he has been since the 60s. He's not like Superman or Batman, where it doesnt matter who's playing him, you will always get movies and tv shows every decade for the next 200 years. Their symbols are everlasting. I can say the same with Spider-man pretty much.

Depends what you mean by 'A-lister'. In comicbook terms, everyone on The Avengers (movie version, bar Hawkeye and BW) roster is an A-lister. But if your talking about their fame/recognition in the real world, there are three superheros who are way above everyone else- Superman, Batman & Spider-Man (Spidey's the best btw). You could argue that Hulk is on the same level as those guys, he's certainly as famous, but he's more like the 2nd biggest superhero ever.

Originally Posted by shauner111

This is not a "DC is better than Marvel" thing. Facts are just facts. Justice League has more iconic characters that dont need the amount of building as Avengers did at the time.

Well, what can I say, I don't see it like you do. Your facts are in fact just opinion, and you seem to think we are still living the 1940's where every kid on the street knows who The Flash, WW and Aquaman are. That is not how it is. Even separate from the fame issue, how can anyone be more iconic than Captain freaking America?!! or The Hulk unless your name is Spidey, Supes or Batman. Your trippin man seriously.

Originally Posted by shauner111

If you think Hulk is an A-lister, then fine, i wont say ur wrong.

That's because I'm not.

Originally Posted by shauner111

But as popular as he is, 95 percent of people will agree that they still havent seen a great Hulk movie.

Hey, I've only seen ONE great Superman movie and that was 34 years ago!
Kinda lame for a guy who's supposed to be the original and greatest Superhero of them all huh?

Originally Posted by shauner111

And i personally cant name a single comic of his that i can regard as a classic or memorable.

Look, I'm clearly a Marvel (even tho I love Supes and Batman) having never read an Aquaman comic, and you a DC. But I can only assume you have not read much Hulk. Peter David's run is INCREDIBLE. After the initial 20 issues, every issue is a classic. You can pick up Peter David's Hulk on amazon in a series of TPB's. That's the first classic series off the top of my head.

Originally Posted by shauner111

A lot of the Justice League has this problem too, but if Hulk is the biggest thing going for Avengers since it was invented, then how does that compare to JLA's big leaguers??

He would smash them.

[Boosted]

tons of kids today know who the flash, aquaman and wonder woman are. You can always find them on TV in the form of cartoons. Or all of DC's animated movies. Heck, you can watch family guy and know who they are.

[Zionite1]

Do they know how flash got his powers?can they name one rogue from his gallery?do they know his real name.No.
Same with Aquaman,Wonderwoman etc
All they know is what they look like and their powers.End off.

[Boosted]

Originally Posted by Zionite1

Do they know how flash got his powers?can they name one rogue from his gallery?do they know his real name.No.
Same with Aquaman,Wonderwoman etc
All they know is what they look like and their powers.End off.

You talk like that stuff is particularly important. I'd imagine that most of the kids don't remember the names Captain America or the Hulk's villains were. Most kids didn't even see the Hulk movie. And do you think they remember the name of the villain in Iron Man I?

Do you think it's important for a JLA movie that the kids in the crowd know who Captain Cold is?

Even the Flash's origin story is completely unnecessary. All I know is that he was bathed in chemicals and struck by lightning. Actually, have you ever seen a Justice League cartoon where they go over that? Hmm. No, I cant. Pretty sure that Young Justice show just starts with them teaming up, no individual origins.

Heh, "end off". What a joke.

[tekken]

I can't believe there are people out there who think Justice League is as unknown as Avengers, and needs some kind of build up for the hype. That's just not true at all.

JLA has been a part of American pop culture for as long as I've been alive, and even longer. From Superfriends, to the JLA comics, to Bruce Timm's animated JL series - I mean most people (apart from fans) think Green Lantern is originally a black character, and that WB was racist to cast Ryan Reynolds in the movie. That's how popular Bruce Timm's JL series was. I can only speak for the 18-25 male crowd, but isn't that part of the main demographic?

It doesn't matter that people don't know their secret origins. What matters is that they know who they are, and that they're SUPER marketable - especially when together. I mean I could argue that most of these characters don't even work that well apart from the League. To me, the team is its own entity much like the X-Men.

[metaphysician]

I'll be blunt: cartoons don't matter. "Cartoons are for kids." They do not add to GA exposure in any really meaningful way. The best way to measure GA exposure is to ask yourself "Has this character gotten a live action adaptation on TV or big screen?" If the answer is "yes," then they have GA awareness. If not, then they don't.

Which means prior to the modern era, the only super heroes with GA awareness were Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, the Hulk, and *just barely* Spider-man. It means that, now today, everybody in Avengers has more GA awareness than Wonder Woman ( a huge megahit movie now is worth more than a TV show in the 70s ). It also, sadly, means that when looking at Green Lantern's GA exposure, Ryan Reynolds is worth more than all the cartoons combined. Sigh.

[Rodrigo90]

When I was a kid in the 90's, cartoons got me knowing who those characters were.

I remember being 3 years old and seeing a Batman comic in the store and it had Michael Keaton as Batman on the cover, I was in awe! That's what started me off. Then I started watching TAS, then I started seeing cartoons of The Hulk, Spider-Man, and I started getting those comics as well.

But things work entirely different to that, I understand. For kids it's cartoons. For the GA it's hype over movies.

[The Guard]

Cartoons very much matter...because the kids that watched them grow up and they remember the cartoons. Which is why so many cartoons are getting made/have been made into movies.

Well, you said Avengers did not have the A-listers like JL 'have'- present tense. Granted Thor, Cap, Hawkeye and Widow were not AS well known as they are now, but EVERYONE already knew who Iron Man and Hulk were.

No, Iron Man was pretty much an unknown character to most people prior to his film.

Pop culture wise, people knew of Captain America and The Hulk, and to a lesser extent maybe Thor, because he's a mythological character as well as a Marvel superhero. They probably had some vague idea that The Avengers is a team of superheroes. But I doubt most people had a clue what SHIELD was, and who Nick Fury, Black Widow and Hawkeye were, let alone Ant Man, The Wasp, Vision, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch...

[Radioactive1980]

Originally Posted by The Guard

No, Iron Man was pretty much an unknown character to most people prior to his film.

Pop culture wise, people knew of Captain America and The Hulk, and to a lesser extent maybe Thor, because he's a mythological character as well as a Marvel superhero. They probably had some vague idea that The Avengers is a team of superheroes. But I doubt most people had a clue what SHIELD was, and who Nick Fury, Black Widow and Hawkeye were, let alone Ant Man, The Wasp, Vision, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch...

Agree.

I was saying everyone knew who Iron Man and co were prior to TA because of their solo films, and that the solo films played a big part in the success of TA because they introduced the GA to these characters and built anticipation for the event/team movie.

I can see how Batman and Superman teaming up in one film is enough in itself to build massive hype for a JL film, but I just think outside of America, the rest of the leaguers are not as well known as some of you would have us believe.

[Eddie Brock]

Originally Posted by Radioactive1980

Agree.

I was saying everyone knew who Iron Man and co were prior to TA because of their solo films, and that the solo films played a big part in the success of TA because it introduced the GA to these characters and built anticipation for the event/team movie.

And we're saying that's not necessary in the JL's case because Wonder Woman has more face-value appeal/recognition than Black Widow, the Flash has more than Hawkeye, etc.

[Radioactive1980]

^Read the second part of my post.

[shauner111]

Iron Man was pretty unknown before 2008. Iron Man has never been an A-Lister. I like him, but he's also a one-dimensional character when you compare him to a lot of the other superheroes. He will never reach the level of Spider-Man even if his movies make millions of dollars with RDJ.

"Even separate from the fame issue, how can anyone be more iconic than Captain freaking America?!!" - RadioActive1980.....Really? LOL it's not hard trust me. He's one of the more well-known characters in Marvel no doubt, and he's inspirational to a lot of people im sure. Not me, because im just not into the whole "american soldier patriotic thing with no charisma" but i see its appeal. But he's not as iconic as you seem to think. Not worldwide. He's not in the top 5 superheroes that's for sure. Not everybody knows he is either.

Im sorry but everyone knows who Wonder Woman, Flash and Aquaman are. Whether they look at them as goofy because they havent seen a movie that has taken them seriously? It's irrelevant. Whether they know their real names? Irrelevant to what im saying. Do they know their names, what they look like and a general idea of what they can do? Yes.

[Project862006]

how can someone argue WW is not well known commodity?

WW is more iconic than everyone in the avengers

[raybia]

Originally Posted by Zionite1

Do they know how flash got his powers?can they name one rogue from his gallery?do they know his real name.No.
Same with Aquaman,Wonderwoman etc
All they know is what they look like and their powers.End off.

Originally Posted by Boosted

You talk like that stuff is particularly important. I'd imagine that most of the kids don't remember the names Captain America or the Hulk's villains were. Most kids didn't even see the Hulk movie. And do you think they remember the name of the villain in Iron Man I?

Do you think it's important for a JLA movie that the kids in the crowd know who Captain Cold is?

Even the Flash's origin story is completely unnecessary. All I know is that he was bathed in chemicals and struck by lightning. Actually, have you ever seen a Justice League cartoon where they go over that? Hmm. No, I cant. Pretty sure that Young Justice show just starts with them teaming up, no individual origins.

Heh, "end off". What a joke.

Do you know why the superhero/comic book movie genre is still in its infancy?

Its because Hollywood as a whole still doesn't understand it which is evident of its insistency to focus on the origins of this characters.

As a result it has not been able move on and tap into the potential of the genre's various mythologies. Focus on the mythologies of these character's, not just on the characters themselves and how they got started. Can you imagine if Indiana Jones started with the IJ Chronicles? No way would we have ever gotten Raiders of the Lost Ark even if Chronicles would have been a success. Its success would have kept Indy perpetually 23-26 years of age. Same with Jack Ryan or James Bond. I would love to see a Batman or Superman movie with the main character is in there 50s to 60s but this will NEVER happen by current Hollywood standards.

Once Hollywood figures all of this out then rich and powerful stories will follow.

[Airwings]

Why can't Warner Brother go "all in" with a project as big as JL, and atleast ask guys like Jackson and Scott if they're interested? Or Spielberg?
What have they got to loose?

[Boosted]

Originally Posted by Project862006

how can someone argue WW is not well known commodity?

WW is more iconic than everyone in the avengers

ha seriously. Wonder Woman is a pop icon. Almost as much as the Superman shield. She's one of those characters who has a meaning past just being a comic book character.

[Karem-Knight]

Look I can defiantly say everyone knows who Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are. That is without question (most people however don't know that Wonder Woman is an Amazon etc.) and Aquaman's fame is more infamy in the general audience as a joke character that needs to be shown faithfully as the badass he is.

But please people, as much as I love him The Flash is not that "iconic". That might be my experience from being in the UK but everyone confuses him with Flash Gordon. I'd say he's as "popular" as Aquaman but he's no way near the level of fame as Supes, Bats and WW are and at this point a lot more people know who Cap, Thor, Iron Man are than the Flash. GL was in the same place before the movie came out but now he also suffers the same stigma as Aquaman.

Saying this, I honestly don't know why a Wonder Woman film hasn't been made yet. If the quality was there it could easily make WB a great amount of money as she's the only truly "iconic" hero who hasn't gotten a movie yet. If I had to say who the most famous/popular superheroes were before the 2000's it would be: Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Hulk, Spider-Man and some of the X-Men with Cap trailing somewhere behind them.

[HighFivingMF]

I think Big Bang Theory has boosted Flash's awareness considerably.

[CConn]

I...kinda have to agree.

[Eddie Brock]

Originally Posted by HighFivingMF

I think Big Bang Theory has boosted Flash's awareness considerably.

Heh. I was going to mention that, actually. Besides, even if people don't know Flash, he's who they picture when they think of superspeed.