Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns Animated

[the.wolf]

Originally Posted by Drz

Batman refers Robin as a soldier because he always deemed his crusade as a war. He took the pill againts Superman, because he couldn't defeat him and thus they had to fake his death, despite Superman working for the government, he still chose to not tell his secret.

I don't get your "old chum" complaiment, since the book was still filled with alot of humor, especially in the dialogue.

Your favorite Batman book is a story where Batman is a complete idiot however, that was amusing to learn. I mean, you dislike changes because you don't accept them, but you can totally buy the idea that Batman is the worst detective out there? Despite Year One showing his talents? Whaaaat?

I liked it because of exactly that. Batman is still learning in Long Halloween and I like to see that in Batman.

I like to see that Batman wasn't always right, that he made mistakes.

Just like in Year One.

As far as me saying "Old Chum" I was complimenting The Dark Knight Returns in the fact that Miller made Batman a darker character, getting rid of the goofiness that was attributed to Batman in the years before "Returns".

But, I may be answering this wrong because you said "Complaiment" so I'm not sure if you were saying "complaint", "compliment" or a mixture of both words.

So I wouldn't say I dislike changes, but I see how I could have worded my previous post better.

I didn't completely dislike "Returns", there are still aspects of it I like, a couple were found in my previous post.

And I definitely see that this is the wrong thread to post my opinions about "Returns" as mostly everyone who has commented on this thread likes the novel, but I did this in the hopes that someone could bring something out to make me go read "Returns" again.

Something I overlooked, that way I wouldn't be so closed-minded and negative against this novel.

[theMan-Bat]

Originally Posted by the.wolf

Yeah, same here. I gave it two chances read the first graphic novel twice and the sequel once. They didn't do anything for me.

I disliked many things very heavily.

Batman refers Robin as a soldier for some reason.

My pal Drz already explained this.

His "death", the destruction of Wayne Manor and Alfred dying.

The one redeeming factor of it is Batman laying the smack down on Superman, but he doesn't even succeed because of the pill he took before the fight.

Always wanted to know why he took that pill, can't remember.

Bruce Wayne faked his death, appearing to have died from a heart attack, to end his public activities in order to get the government and Superman off his back and had Alfred destroy Wayne Manor to destroy any evidence publicly and conceal the entrance to the Batcave, because the Batcave is still Bruce's secret home. Also, Bruce kept his fortune by emptying all of his bank accounts. Alfred was 70 years old and suffered a stroke and died.

I do, however, owe the graphic novel thanks.

Frank Miller made Batman, well, Batman again.

No blue costume, no "old chum", just the relentless pursuit for justice in an unjust and broken Gotham, but despite all this novel did for batman, I still do not like it.

The virtues that made Batman are all gone. Especially, when he snapped Joker's neck, at least he decided to keep him alive, until Joker killed himself.

It was more virtues of Batman to finally put an end to the Joker's body count by paralyzing the Joker so he couldn't kill anybody ever again, rather than just knocking the Joker unconscious again and tieing him up again and taking him to the police again so he could go back to Arkham again and escape again and commit mass murder again and again and again.

[the.wolf]

Originally Posted by theMan-Bat

It was more virtues of Batman to finally put an end to the Joker's body count by paralyzing the Joker so he couldn't kill anybody ever again, rather than just knocking the Joker unconscious again and tieing him up again and taking him to the police again so he could go back to Arkham again and escape again and commit mass murder again and again and again.

Never thought of it that way when I read it.

Joker had just murdered children, if I recall correctly.

Is it true that All Star Batman and Robin takes place in the same universe as "Returns"?

[Oberon sexton]

Frank Miller says it does.

[Léo Ho Tep]

Miller didn't end the goofiness. Batman was already back to his dark roots for years when TDKR was released. Even if it wasn't as dark and gritty, it was already serious and more mature.

[the.wolf]

Originally Posted by Léo Ho Tep

Miller didn't end the goofiness. Batman was already back to his dark roots for years when TDKR was released. Even if it wasn't as dark and gritty, it was already serious and more mature.

See, I figured as much, but people always credit Miller with that and I never found any sources contrary to that.

Please, share some example. I'd love to read the comics you're talking about.

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Basically pick up some Denny O Neil stories or anything from the early 80's...

He's not breaking legs or calling Gotham ''my whore of a city'' but it's still a serious take on Bats.

[Léo Ho Tep]

Try to pick "Joker 5 ways revenge", it's from O'neil. It's in Batman 251, it was released in the early 70's... 1973 I would say, but I'm not sure. It's a damn great dark story.

Or you could read steve englehart work. Try to read strange apparitions for instance. While some things were still cheesy in these stories, it perfectly show that Batman didn't need Miller to be dark again.

While I love both year one and TDKR, i also think Miller's work is really overrated.

[Léo Ho Tep]

Try to pick The Joker greatest stories ever told. This story is featured in this anthology.

[theMan-Bat]

Some people are not aware of this, but long before Frank Miller's Batman material, Batman had been brought back to the dark, nocturnal vigilante roots by Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams, Steve Englehart and Marshall Rogers, etc. in the 1970s, and many of those stories are still in print by DC and available in:
Batman Illustrated by Neal Adams volume 2.
http://www.dccomics.com/graphic-nove...al-adams-vol-2
Batman Illustrated by Neal Adams volume 3 (this one features "The Joker's Five-Way Revenge").
http://www.dccomics.com/graphic-nove...al-adams-vol-3
Batman: Tales of the Demon.
http://www.dccomics.com/graphic-nove...s-of-the-demon
Batman in the Seventies.
http://www.dccomics.com/graphic-nove...-the-seventies
Batman: Strange Apparitions.
http://www.dccomics.com/graphic-nove...ge-apparitions
Tales of Batman: Gene Colan volume 1.
http://www.dccomics.com/graphic-nove...ne-colan-vol-1

What Frank Miller was aloud to do (without Comics Code Authority restrictions), was bring Batman back to his dark roots further, even more in line with the original vision of the character. Closer to the police beating, bone breaking, gun-toting original version. The use of the bat emblem on his chest without the yellow circle in Batman The Dark Knight Returns. In the Golden Age this was the standard. Batman carrying and using his own guns, which hadn't been seen since 1940. Frank Miller brought back Robin's sling shot which had not been seen since 1940. The gadgets and bat vehicles, which had been toned way down in the '70s. Batman originally was a terror striking creature of the night wanted by the police. Batman The Dark Knight Returns was a return to that concept. Frank Miller made Batman darker - more brutal than he's been in decades - breaking criminals bones, punching out police, etc.

As Denny O'Neil said, in the documentary Heart of Vengeance: Returning Batman to His Roots, which is on the Batman: Year One DVD Two-Disc and the Blu-ray, "Neal, Julie Schwartz and I darkened the character and gave him some psychological realism, some psychological validity, and Frank (Miller) took Batman several shades darker."

Bronze Age Batman writer Len Wein said on the documentary, "When Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams took over the books they were actually looking for what made it work to begin with. The first thing you do when a book isn't working is - 'well, it worked for years, why?' And they sat down and they studied the original stories and went back to the creature of the night, they went back from being Batman - Mister Average Joe's pal, to The Batman - you don't want to be in the same room with him. Frank (Miller) took what Denny and Neal did and just expanded on it. He took it to it's extremes."

[theMan-Bat]

Official Press Release:

Warner Home Video Announces Bi-Coastal Premieres For Batman: The Dark Knight Returns - Part 1, Plus New Images

Warner Home Video and The Paley Center for Media proudly present the bi-coastal World Premieres of Batman: The Dark Knight Returns - Part 1, in New York City, New York on September 20th and Los Angeles, California on September 24th. Filmmakers and members of the voice cast will attend both events for red carpet media interviews and post-screening panel discussions.

On Thursday, September 20th, Batman: The Dark Knight Returns - Part 1 will be screened at the Paley Center in New York City, New York (25 West 52nd Street) with media interviews starting at 5:00 p.m. and screening commencing at 6:30 p.m. Following the screening, David Selby, the voice of Commissioner Gordon, and eight-time Emmy Award winning dialogue/casting director Andrea Romano will lead a panel discussion. Additional panelists will be announced as confirmed.

On Monday, September 24th, Batman: The Dark Knight Returns - Part 1 will screen at the Paley Center in Los Angeles, California (465 North Beverly Drive in Beverly Hills) with media interviews starting at 5:30 p.m. and screening commencing at 7:00 p.m. A panel discussion will follow the screening featuring David Selby and Ariel Winter, the voice of Robin/Carrie Kelley, executive producer Bruce Timm, director Jay Oliva, writer Bob Goodman and dialogue/casting director Andrea Romano. Additional participants, including voice cast members, will be announced as confirmed.

A limited number of free tickets are available for the general public.

Fans wishing to receive free tickets to the New York event on September 20th must RSVP via email to DKReturns1@gmail.com.

Fans wishing to receive free tickets to the Los Angeles event on September 24th must RSVP via email to DKReturns1@gmail.com.

All fan RSVPs email MUST include the name of the entrant, a valid email, and the name of the media outlet/website by which the entrant learned of the screening.

Tickets to both events will be distributed on a “first come, first served” basis.





http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/20...ne-new-images/

[theMan-Bat]

Official Press Release:

Warner Home Video Announces Bi-Coastal Premieres For Batman: The Dark Knight Returns - Part 1, Plus New Images

Warner Home Video and The Paley Center for Media proudly present the bi-coastal World Premieres of Batman: The Dark Knight Returns - Part 1, in New York City, New York on September 20th and Los Angeles, California on September 24th. Filmmakers and members of the voice cast will attend both events for red carpet media interviews and post-screening panel discussions.

On Thursday, September 20th, Batman: The Dark Knight Returns - Part 1 will be screened at the Paley Center in New York City, New York (25 West 52nd Street) with media interviews starting at 5:00 p.m. and screening commencing at 6:30 p.m. Following the screening, David Selby, the voice of Commissioner Gordon, and eight-time Emmy Award winning dialogue/casting director Andrea Romano will lead a panel discussion. Additional panelists will be announced as confirmed.

On Monday, September 24th, Batman: The Dark Knight Returns - Part 1 will screen at the Paley Center in Los Angeles, California (465 North Beverly Drive in Beverly Hills) with media interviews starting at 5:30 p.m. and screening commencing at 7:00 p.m. A panel discussion will follow the screening featuring David Selby and Ariel Winter, the voice of Robin/Carrie Kelley, executive producer Bruce Timm, director Jay Oliva, writer Bob Goodman and dialogue/casting director Andrea Romano. Additional participants, including voice cast members, will be announced as confirmed.

A limited number of free tickets are available for the general public.

Fans wishing to receive free tickets to the New York event on September 20th must RSVP via email to DKReturns1@gmail.com.

Fans wishing to receive free tickets to the Los Angeles event on September 24th must RSVP via email to DKReturns1@gmail.com.

All fan RSVPs email MUST include the name of the entrant, a valid email, and the name of the media outlet/website by which the entrant learned of the screening.

Tickets to both events will be distributed on a “first come, first served” basis.





http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/20...ne-new-images/

[Eklypze]

Ive had the novel for like 5 years now and still have never read it through. It gets really boring and tedious at times. Its been laying on my coffee table for months now awaiting me to read it but I just haven't gotten around to it. My newly developed GL obsession is the most attributing factor for not finally reading it through though

[the.wolf]

Thanks for the info, guys. I'll definitely look these stories up.

[Caped Crusader]

I thought this was coming out in December!? September sounds great to me!

[theMan-Bat]

Originally Posted by Eklypze

Ive had the novel for like 5 years now and still have never read it through. It gets really boring and tedious at times. Its been laying on my coffee table for months now awaiting me to read it but I just haven't gotten around to it. My newly developed GL obsession is the most attributing factor for not finally reading it through though

Perhaps watching the film will change your perspective of it, and give you a newly developed interest to read through the novel.

[craigdbfan]

I just noticed they gave him the yellow oval along with a different bat insignia more akin to that of Burton's.

I haven't seen anyone bring that up.

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

The oval is on his first costume in the book.

[theMan-Bat]

Batman did wear the yellow oval in the beginning of The Dark Knight Returns.

It's even explained that he used the round yellow oval as an armored target to draw gunfire away from his head.

His last yellow oval costume is destroyed during the fight with the savage Mutant leader at the garbage dump.

After that he wears the none yellow oval costume.

Frank Miller's idea of Batman using the round yellow oval as an armored target to draw gunfire away from his head influenced Sam Hamm in writing the script for Tim Burton's first Batman film. Sam Hamm explained in the Comics Interview Batman Special (1989):




Frank Miller's idea of Batman using the round yellow oval as an armored target to draw gunfire away from his head also influenced other Batman comic book writers, as seen in Batman #528 (March, 1996) "Two-Face Part 2: Schismid Faces" written by Doug Moench, for example.

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

This is my favorite image of Batman in any form.



It's a big reason why that costume is the definitive look for the character for me.

[craigdbfan]

Ah, I haven't read it in a while. Completely forgot about the yellow oval.

The bat insignia is still different though.

[Baramos]

Frankly I would pay for Frank Miller to return to whatever state of mind he was in when he wrote The Dark Knight Returns and get away from the uber-jingoistic drivel of stuff like Holy Terror. I used to think he was an anarchist (The Dark Knight Returns seems to take potshots at both liberals, with its portrayal of psychologists getting violent criminals out of prison sentences, a waffling mayor, etc. and conservatives, since it paints the government as this fascistic force out to kill Batman using Superman as its patriotic tool, and since Reagan was president at the time I assumed he didn't care for him that much), or maybe in more recent years liberatarian/objectivist, but Holy Terror combined with his idiotic rants about Occupy Wall Street last year make him look like just another conservative neocon.

EDIT: Actually in retrospect Robocop 3, which came out ages ago, makes him look like a xenophobe, just against Japanese people instead of, in the current age, Muslims. I can think of no other reason for him to change the message of the series from "Corporatism is bad" to "Japanese takeovers of corporations (and America!) is bad!". And that was ages ago. So maybe I've been naively giving him the benefit of the doubt all these years.

[Kane52630]

Originally Posted by craigdbfan

Ah, I haven't read it in a while. Completely forgot about the yellow oval.

The bat insignia is still different though.

And you call yourself a Batman fan.

[craigdbfan]

Originally Posted by Kane52630

And you call yourself a Batman fan.

Shush. Says the guy that loves Batman & Robin.

[Baramos]

Honestly I've never read it more than...twice, I think. Maybe three times. Whereas I've read shorter ones like The Long Halloween, Dark Victory, Year One, The Man Who Laughs, The Killing Joke, Joker, etc. multiple times.

And honestly it's not the length that really keeps me from reading it. I read Watchmen every year, for instance. It's just not very compelling.