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Old 08-23-2012, 09:59 PM   #951
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Default Re: Joseph Gordon-Levitt as John Blake V

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You want him to be Batman, he is not worthy he killed two guys.
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And was immediately regretful and disgusted.
Yes. Damian Wayne: Use of deadly force despite him later despising himself for it.

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Old 08-23-2012, 10:14 PM   #952
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Default Re: Joseph Gordon-Levitt as John Blake V

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... I count 2.

He blew up half the league of shadows in begins. Killed Talia and her driver. Killed Dent. Probably killed a few people in TDK with his tumbler on the highway. He also pretty much killed Ras al ghul. Real Batman would have grabbed him take him to a rooftop, punch him out and take him to jail,

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Old 08-23-2012, 10:30 PM   #953
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Default Re: Joseph Gordon-Levitt as John Blake V

My mistake thought you were purely on about TDKR

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Old 08-23-2012, 10:40 PM   #954
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Default Re: Joseph Gordon-Levitt as John Blake V

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Hey, don't get me started on Batman killing in this series. It was absurd. His body count was probably close to 15.
You must love Tim Burton.

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Old 08-23-2012, 10:55 PM   #955
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Default Re: Joseph Gordon-Levitt as John Blake V

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He blew up half the league of shadows in begins.
There's no way those poor helpless ninjas managed to escape.

Quote:
Killed Talia and her driver.
Yeah. He should have just let Gotham blow up instead.

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Killed Dent.
On accident while trying to protect a kid from getting shot in the head.

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Probably killed a few people in TDK with his tumbler on the highway.
I didn't see any bodies or hear him killing anybody referenced. So nope.

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He also pretty much killed Ras al ghul.
According to the movie he didn't. He just didn't save him.

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Real Batman would have grabbed him take him to a rooftop, punch him out and take him to jail,
Batman's fictional. There's no real Batman. What there are are several different interpretations of the Batman concept.

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Old 08-23-2012, 10:56 PM   #956
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Default Re: Joseph Gordon-Levitt as John Blake V

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Not to mention Batman had no problem shooting directly at the driver of the bomb instead of going for the wheels. Then there's the garbage truck guy in TDK. It's a blink and you'll miss it scene but you can see him duck down to avoid getting his head smashed but Batman couldn't have guessed that.

Batman in these films doesn't want to kill but he has a few times. So I don't get the *****ing about Blake. Especially that last shot seemed reactionary from struggling with the gun. He wouldn't have known the bullet would have ricocheted into the guy.

Then there's also the fact that sometimes cops do need to take lives at times if it's necessary. By the end of the film he throws away his badge realizing it's not for him.
Yeah, Blake was a cop. He killed those men (out of self-defense) before fully becoming 'Robin', so to speak.

As far as Batman killing people in this series, people greatly overreact about this whole thing. Batman (in Nolan's series) never killed anyone directly. By that, I mean with the intention to murder another person. Most deaths which were cause by Batman could be considered "collateral damage" during times of great distress..except for Ra's, which Nolan even admitted he was on the fence about. In TDKR, the death of the truck driver was due to Batman frantically attempting to avert a nuclear disaster. He was trying to get the truck to change its course by shooting his cannons in the truck's path. If anything, it's the truck driver's fault for not changing course and driving straight onwards (under Talia's orders).

Dent died as Batman made a last-second dive to save a young boy from a madman. Now, if Dent was standing there by himself and Batman shoulder-bumped him off the ledge, that would be murder. Instead, Batman did exactly the right thing by essentially tackling Dent and grabbing the boy.

My point is that Batman hasn't killed anyone in cold blood. His rule is no guns, no killing...and he has stuck by that in this series. He hasn't aimed a weapon at someone with the mindset of "I'm going to kill this person" (as Batman did in B'89 when aiming his Batwing missiles directly at the Joker). But there are casualties in every war and Batman does fight a war on crime. His casualties are clearly unintention and sometimes unavoidable.

Note -- Any deaths he caused when escaping from the LOS headquarters in BB should be considered out of self-defense. He wasn't going to murder the man they set before him. Upon realizing that he was living among a radical group of 'murdering psychopaths', he reacted quickly and did he was had to do to orchestrate his own escape to safety. Shouldn't be considered murder by any means.

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Old 08-23-2012, 10:56 PM   #957
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Default Re: Joseph Gordon-Levitt as John Blake V

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He blew up half the league of shadows in begins. Killed Talia and her driver. Killed Dent. Probably killed a few people in TDK with his tumbler on the highway. He also pretty much killed Ras al ghul. Real Batman would have grabbed him take him to a rooftop, punch him out and take him to jail,
............ that **** cray.

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Old 08-24-2012, 12:53 AM   #958
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Default Re: Joseph Gordon-Levitt as John Blake V

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Yeah, Blake was a cop. He killed those men (out of self-defense) before fully becoming 'Robin', so to speak.

As far as Batman killing people in this series, people greatly overreact about this whole thing. Batman (in Nolan's series) never killed anyone directly. By that, I mean with the intention to murder another person. Most deaths which were cause by Batman could be considered "collateral damage" during times of great distress..except for Ra's, which Nolan even admitted he was on the fence about. In TDKR, the death of the truck driver was due to Batman frantically attempting to avert a nuclear disaster. He was trying to get the truck to change its course by shooting his cannons in the truck's path. If anything, it's the truck driver's fault for not changing course and driving straight onwards (under Talia's orders).

Dent died as Batman made a last-second dive to save a young boy from a madman. Now, if Dent was standing there by himself and Batman shoulder-bumped him off the ledge, that would be murder. Instead, Batman did exactly the right thing by essentially tackling Dent and grabbing the boy.

My point is that Batman hasn't killed anyone in cold blood. His rule is no guns, no killing...and he has stuck by that in this series. He hasn't aimed a weapon at someone with the mindset of "I'm going to kill this person" (as Batman did in B'89 when aiming his Batwing missiles directly at the Joker). But there are casualties in every war and Batman does fight a war on crime. His casualties are clearly unintention and sometimes unavoidable.

Note -- Any deaths he caused when escaping from the LOS headquarters in BB should be considered out of self-defense. He wasn't going to murder the man they set before him. Upon realizing that he was living among a radical group of 'murdering psychopaths', he reacted quickly and did he was had to do to orchestrate his own escape to safety. Shouldn't be considered murder by any means.
Exactly!!

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Old 08-24-2012, 12:57 AM   #959
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Default Re: Joseph Gordon-Levitt as John Blake V

Well said theShape.

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Old 08-24-2012, 01:28 AM   #960
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Default Re: Joseph Gordon-Levitt as John Blake V

Honestly, if you're going to count unintentional deaths as times Batman broke his one rule you might as well include all the people the villains killed because the villains were acting in part as a response to Batman and his action. When you put it that way you kind of make Batman out to be the real villain of the series.

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Old 08-24-2012, 02:36 AM   #961
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Default Re: Joseph Gordon-Levitt as John Blake V

theShape gets it.

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Old 08-24-2012, 03:44 AM   #962
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Default Re: Joseph Gordon-Levitt as John Blake V

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Originally Posted by theShape View Post
Yeah, Blake was a cop. He killed those men (out of self-defense) before fully becoming 'Robin', so to speak.

As far as Batman killing people in this series, people greatly overreact about this whole thing. Batman (in Nolan's series) never killed anyone directly. By that, I mean with the intention to murder another person. Most deaths which were cause by Batman could be considered "collateral damage" during times of great distress..except for Ra's, which Nolan even admitted he was on the fence about. In TDKR, the death of the truck driver was due to Batman frantically attempting to avert a nuclear disaster. He was trying to get the truck to change its course by shooting his cannons in the truck's path. If anything, it's the truck driver's fault for not changing course and driving straight onwards (under Talia's orders).

Dent died as Batman made a last-second dive to save a young boy from a madman. Now, if Dent was standing there by himself and Batman shoulder-bumped him off the ledge, that would be murder. Instead, Batman did exactly the right thing by essentially tackling Dent and grabbing the boy.

My point is that Batman hasn't killed anyone in cold blood. His rule is no guns, no killing...and he has stuck by that in this series. He hasn't aimed a weapon at someone with the mindset of "I'm going to kill this person" (as Batman did in B'89 when aiming his Batwing missiles directly at the Joker). But there are casualties in every war and Batman does fight a war on crime. His casualties are clearly unintention and sometimes unavoidable.

Note -- Any deaths he caused when escaping from the LOS headquarters in BB should be considered out of self-defense. He wasn't going to murder the man they set before him. Upon realizing that he was living among a radical group of 'murdering psychopaths', he reacted quickly and did he was had to do to orchestrate his own escape to safety. Shouldn't be considered murder by any means.
I Dont think anyone has said it better. Great post.

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Old 08-24-2012, 05:28 AM   #963
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Default Re: Joseph Gordon-Levitt as John Blake V

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Originally Posted by HighFivingMF View Post
There's no way those poor helpless ninjas managed to escape.



Yeah. He should have just let Gotham blow up instead.


On accident while trying to protect a kid from getting shot in the head.



I didn't see any bodies or hear him killing anybody referenced. So nope.



According to the movie he didn't. He just didn't save him.



Batman's fictional. There's no real Batman. What there are are several different interpretations of the Batman concept.
Yes, that's all fine, but it is perfectly valid to point out that comicbook Batman always finds a way not to kill. It is a significant variance between the comics and the movies, of which you can approve or disapprove.

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Old 08-24-2012, 11:22 AM   #964
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Default Re: Joseph Gordon-Levitt as John Blake V

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Yes, that's all fine, but it is perfectly valid to point out that comicbook Batman always finds a way not to kill. It is a significant variance between the comics and the movies, of which you can approve or disapprove.
Yeah, but comicbook Batman is much more fictional than Nolanverse Batman. It works great on paper but if you put it on the big screen... I'm not really sure...

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Old 08-24-2012, 11:26 AM   #965
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Default Re: Joseph Gordon-Levitt as John Blake V

There's a difference between killing and murder.

As long as Batman never murders, you're kind of in the clear.

That's why people make such a fuss over Ra's and not Two-Face; Batman killed Two-Face, but he didn't murder him. Ra's...not so much.

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Old 08-24-2012, 01:17 PM   #966
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Default Re: Joseph Gordon-Levitt as John Blake V

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There's a difference between killing and murder.

As long as Batman never murders, you're kind of in the clear.

That's why people make such a fuss over Ra's and not Two-Face; Batman killed Two-Face, but he didn't murder him. Ra's...not so much.

That's why we have Manslaughter and Capital murder.

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Old 08-24-2012, 09:33 PM   #967
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Default Re: Joseph Gordon-Levitt as John Blake V

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Originally Posted by theShape View Post
Yeah, Blake was a cop. He killed those men (out of self-defense) before fully becoming 'Robin', so to speak.

As far as Batman killing people in this series, people greatly overreact about this whole thing. Batman (in Nolan's series) never killed anyone directly. By that, I mean with the intention to murder another person. Most deaths which were cause by Batman could be considered "collateral damage" during times of great distress..except for Ra's, which Nolan even admitted he was on the fence about. In TDKR, the death of the truck driver was due to Batman frantically attempting to avert a nuclear disaster. He was trying to get the truck to change its course by shooting his cannons in the truck's path. If anything, it's the truck driver's fault for not changing course and driving straight onwards (under Talia's orders).

Dent died as Batman made a last-second dive to save a young boy from a madman. Now, if Dent was standing there by himself and Batman shoulder-bumped him off the ledge, that would be murder. Instead, Batman did exactly the right thing by essentially tackling Dent and grabbing the boy.

My point is that Batman hasn't killed anyone in cold blood. His rule is no guns, no killing...and he has stuck by that in this series. He hasn't aimed a weapon at someone with the mindset of "I'm going to kill this person" (as Batman did in B'89 when aiming his Batwing missiles directly at the Joker). But there are casualties in every war and Batman does fight a war on crime. His casualties are clearly unintention and sometimes unavoidable.

Note -- Any deaths he caused when escaping from the LOS headquarters in BB should be considered out of self-defense. He wasn't going to murder the man they set before him. Upon realizing that he was living among a radical group of 'murdering psychopaths', he reacted quickly and did he was had to do to orchestrate his own escape to safety. Shouldn't be considered murder by any means.

Yep.. Agree with you..

Gonna add one more point, Ra's death..
When Batman choked Ra's on the ground, he had his batarangs in his hand (he was able and ready to pin it on Ra's neck, kill him). Batman's in higher position.



But he chose to throw it away, didn't wanna kill Ra's. Then he used his grenade to make his way out.
So, yeah Batman didn't save Ra's..
But Batman didn't kill Ra's.

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Old 08-24-2012, 10:44 PM   #968
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Default Re: Joseph Gordon-Levitt as John Blake V

As Wayne put it in the film-- anyone can be Batman. It is clear that Robin is to become Batman.

Also, Gordon didn't find a Owlman-signal at the end of the movie-- that was a new Bat-signal.

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Old 08-24-2012, 10:46 PM   #969
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Default Re: Joseph Gordon-Levitt as John Blake V

Batman can be anyone yes. But not anyone can be Batman.

Yes that does make sense

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Psychic though? That sounds like something out of science-fiction.

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Old 08-25-2012, 06:16 AM   #970
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Default Re: Joseph Gordon-Levitt as John Blake V

For example: I'm being Batman for Halloween.

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Old 08-26-2012, 02:25 PM   #971
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Default Re: Joseph Gordon-Levitt as John Blake V

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On accident while trying to protect a kid from getting shot in the head.
...
I didn't see any bodies or hear him killing anybody referenced. So nope.
So I'm assuming you'd have no problem with Batman killing Joker right? As long as he was doing it to save people.

"I will go back to Gotham and I will fight men like this, but I will not become an executioner."

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Old 08-26-2012, 02:30 PM   #972
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Default Re: Joseph Gordon-Levitt as John Blake V

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So I'm assuming you'd have no problem with Batman killing Joker right? As long as he was doing it to save people.

"I will go back to Gotham and I will fight men like this, but I will not become an executioner."
I don't see how that ties into what you quoted.

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Old 08-26-2012, 02:39 PM   #973
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Default Re: Joseph Gordon-Levitt as John Blake V

I think it's easier to not kill in the more fantasy based books because he has this author granted ability to always be a few steps ahead even when by all rights he shouldn't be.

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Old 08-26-2012, 04:01 PM   #974
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Default Re: Joseph Gordon-Levitt as John Blake V

I saw Premium Rush earlier today and JGL was pretty awesome in it. I kept thinking he was riding the Batpod the whole time.

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Old 08-26-2012, 06:07 PM   #975
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Default Re: Joseph Gordon-Levitt as John Blake V

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Killed Talia and her driver.
Batman fire-bombed their windshield to obscure the driver's view and blew apart the street ahead.

They could have stopped the truck at any time and lived.

They chose to keep driving.

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