Ms. Marvel in the works? - Part 1

[KangConquers]

They should do a documentary about the making of Ms. Marvel's costume...judging by the thread discussion...it'd probably be a bigger hit than her actual solo film.

[Hawkingbird]

Are we STILL on the costume!?

[marcvader]

Originally Posted by KangConquers

They should do a documentary about the making of Ms. Marvel's costume...judging by the thread discussion...it'd probably be a bigger hit than her actual solo film.

Nah, it would be called a copycat of the Captain America Cowl Documentary, To Have Wings or Not To Have Wings.

[Chewy]

Originally Posted by KangConquers

They should do a documentary about the making of Ms. Marvel's costume...judging by the thread discussion...it'd probably be a bigger hit than her actual solo film.

You're just jelly cause no one's posting in the Namor thread

Pretty much everyone's agreed on the banana hammock.

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by chewy

you're just jelly cause no one's posting in the namor thread

pretty much everyone's agreed on the banana hammock.

imperious rex!!

[Whiskey Tango]

They might base her outfit on the warbird costume, if she happens to be working for Shield or the Air Force. it's got more of a military look to it.



I can't even find any pics of the older version, what the hell....

[Young Superman]

Originally Posted by Whiskey Tango

They might base her outfit on the warbird costume, if she happens to be working for Shield or the Air Force. it's got more of a military look to it.



I can't even find any pics of the older version, what the hell....

I like this look.

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by Whiskey Tango

They might base her outfit on the warbird costume, if she happens to be working for Shield or the Air Force. it's got more of a military look to it.



I can't even find any pics of the older version, what the hell....

I always hated this costume. I'd rather just go with the new Captain Marvel costume, minus the mask.

[DrCosmic]

Originally Posted by Hawkingbird

Are we STILL on the costume!?

Traditionally, these characters (female superheroes) exist as sex objects, so their costume is the most important part by most accounts. Things like personality and story arc are relatively recent and varied developments for these characters, so there's not much to reference when it comes to 'who Ms. Marvel is' or 'what makes her cool' or even 'Who's in her supporting cast?'

[DrCosmic]

That's cool when she's a SHIELD agent, however, once she gets powers, she should boast something a bit cooler and more dynamic, imho.

Originally Posted by Hawkingbird

Are we STILL on the costume!?

Traditionally, these characters (female superheroes) exist as sex objects, so their costume is the most important part by most accounts. Things like personality and story arc are relatively recent and varied developments for these characters, so there's not much to reference when it comes to 'who Ms. Marvel is' or 'what makes her cool' or even 'Who's in her supporting cast?'

But if anyone starts up such conversations, I'll be glad to join in.

[Chewy]

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

Traditionally, these characters (female superheroes) exist as sex objects, so their costume is the most important part by most accounts. Things like personality and story arc are relatively recent and varied developments for these characters, so there's not much to reference when it comes to 'who Ms. Marvel is' or 'what makes her cool' or even 'Who's in her supporting cast?'

lol, it's funny because it's true

Anyway, supporting cast:
Mar-Vell
Ronan
Other Kree?
Moonstone
???
SWORD?
Maybe you could get Wonder Man in there? And, by extension, Grim Reaper?

That's so much harder than it ought to be.

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

Traditionally, these characters (female superheroes) exist as sex objects, so their costume is the most important part by most accounts. Things like personality and story arc are relatively recent and varied developments for these characters, so there's not much to reference when it comes to 'who Ms. Marvel is' or 'what makes her cool' or even 'Who's in her supporting cast?'

Exactly. Ms. Marvel literally has made it three or four volumes without establishing an actual rogues gallery or a consistent supporting cast. They just throw random threats at her so she can run around looking like this:





and in typical "Women in refrigerators" tradition, fall into convenient bondage situations, and situations where she's violated or abused mentally or physically.

[Human Torch]

The bottom line for me is,she should have the classic (black) costume because it looks great and that's what she actually wore in the comics.

I don't know why there's this fear of female heroes with bare legs.Wonder Woman has to wear pants or she looks like a tramp? I mean,from that reasoning all female tennis players should be made to wear pants.

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by Human Torch

The bottom line for me is,she should have the classic (black) costume because it looks great and that's what she actually wore in the comics.

I don't know why there's this fear of female heroes with bare legs.Wonder Woman has to wear pants or she looks like a tramp? I mean,from that reasoning all female tennis players should be made to wear pants.

I think the Black costume is fantastic. That's my #1. But if we have to cover up the legs, I'd rather see something other than just sticking leather pants over the trad costume.

[Chewy]

Originally Posted by KangConquers

Exactly. Ms. Marvel literally has made it three volumes without establishing an actual raogues gallery. They just throw random threats at her so she can run around looking like this:

and in typical "Women in refrigerators" tradition, fall into convenient bondage situations, and situations where she's violated or abused mentally or physically.

Although I agree with every point you make, the Guardians don't really have a rogues gallery either - they just fought a handful of the cosmic villains like, once a piece in their 25 issue book. Marvel isn't just translating their comics to the screen, in many ways they're improving upon them, streamlining stuff that needs to be and building as they go. Ms Capt Marvel has a ton of potential and some good stuff to build off, someone just needs to sit down and actually build those pieces into a cohesive whole.

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by Chewy

Although I agree with every point you make, the Guardians don't really have a rogues gallery either - they just fought a handful of the cosmic villains like, once a piece in their 25 issue book. Marvel isn't just translating their comics to the screen, in many ways they're improving upon them, streamlining stuff that needs to be and building as they go. Ms Capt Marvel has a ton of potential and some good stuff to build off, someone just needs to sit down and actually build those pieces into a cohesive whole.

Why does everyone have to take a shot at GOTG every time I make a point just because I have a Raccoon in my Avatar...(though I admit, GOTG just fought Adam Warlock's rogues.)

I want Ms. Captain to succeed, they just have a lot of work to do. Since becoming a Superhero in 1977, she's been raped, depowered, become an alcoholic, made a fool of herself, court marshaled for criminal endangerment....

They tried to make her a major player in 2005-2009, but she kind of just wound up as Tony's side kick with enormous hooters and butt cheeks hanging out vs a character with her own niche.

They either need to work really fast, or come up with original material to make her a character who can stand on her own in a solo film.

[Chewy]

I'm not taking a shot at GotG... I love GotG. It's just the first movie they're making that's not based on a series that ran for 50+ years, so it's the example

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by Chewy

I'm not taking a shot at GotG... I love GotG. It's just the first movie they're making that's not based on a series that ran for 50+ years, so it's the example

True, though to be fair to GoTG, it's a little like a C-list Avengers...you can fall back on elements of the characters individual arcs. They have the Celestial Madonna, 4 members of the Infinity Watch, a Member of the Mar-Vell family...there's a lot to fall back on there that's not necessarily in those 25 issues, and assorted crossovers.


I guess I just don't see a team that includes Adam Warlock fighting the Universal Church of Truth as being a "borrowed" element, any more than a team including Thor fighting Loki would be. Where as when Ms. Marvel fights Moonstone or MODOK, she's clearly borrowing from other rogue galleries.

[spideymouse]

Originally Posted by KangConquers

Why does everyone have to take a shot at GOTG every time I make a point just because I have a Raccoon in my Avatar...(though I admit, GOTG just fought Adam Warlock's rogues.)

I want Ms. Captain to succeed, they just have a lot of work to do. Since becoming a Superhero in 1977, she's been raped, depowered, become an alcoholic, made a fool of herself, court marshaled for criminal endangerment....

They tried to make her a major player in 2005-2009, but she kind of just wound up as Tony's side kick with enormous hooters and butt cheeks hanging out vs a character with her own niche.

They either need to work really fast, or come up with original material to make her a character who can stand on her own in a solo film.

I think her origin as it relates to the Kree (Mar-Vell, Ronan, etc.) can be pretty good material for a solo film (as well as lead-in for Avengers-related stuff), and some people have brought up her personal struggles with her parentage as a potentially intriguing character hook for a superhero. We've also discussed the idea of her niche being the human liaison between Earth and the cosmic side of the MCU, especially if she were to work for SWORD, a la A:EMH. Unfortunately, Peter Quill might very well be filling that niche instead.

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by spideymouse

I think her origin as it relates to the Kree (Mar-Vell, Ronan, etc.) can be pretty good material for a solo film (as well as lead-in for Avengers-related stuff), and some people have brought up her personal struggles with her parentage as a potentially intriguing character hook for a superhero. We've also discussed the idea of her niche being the human liaison between Earth and the cosmic side of the MCU, especially if she were to work for SWORD, a la A:EMH. Unfortunately, Peter Quill might very well be filling that niche instead.

I don't think Quill will be in SWORD. Quill as a character more or less leaves Earth behind, and almost never comes back. In one issue of GoTG (or one of the minis associated with one of the cosmic events, I forget) he shows that he doesn't even know the name of Reed Richards Team, which shows you how little he's involved with Earth affairs.

[Chewy]

Originally Posted by KangConquers

I guess I just don't see a team that includes Adam Warlock fighting the Universal Church of Truth as being a "borrowed" element, any more than a team including Thor fighting Loki would be. Where as when Ms. Marvel fights Moonstone or MODOK, she's clearly borrowing from other rogue galleries.

And that's fair. But at the same time, the villains they're using for the movies don't have to necessarily be long-time foes, either. Malekith and Kurse were in fewer than 10 issues each, Iron Monger was in fewer than 20, they just up and made a new Whiplash for the movie. They just have to find an "in" to tell specific stories with specific characters. I guess borrowing some of the other heroes' villains who won't make into their films doesn't bother me.

I'm hoping KSD gives her a nice villain or two over the next year or so, too.

[Chewy]

Will you look at us, we're having an actual conversation about things that are actually relevant here

[DrCosmic]

Originally Posted by Chewy

lol, it's funny because it's true

Anyway, supporting cast:
Mar-Vell
Ronan
Other Kree?
Moonstone
???
SWORD?
Maybe you could get Wonder Man in there? And, by extension, Grim Reaper?

That's so much harder than it ought to be.

It is... but to add to the list:
Michael "Ace" Rossi - This is Carol's Air Force ex-lover guy. Lots of history between the two. The Duncan to her Veronica Mars, if you will. I think he died recently in Ms. Marvel's series, but he was a long time supporting cast member, even through her X-Men years.

Dr. Michael (ugh, hate it when they do that) Barnett - This was Carol's therapist who became more than friends with her (real professional, guy). Mystique killed him way back in Ms. Marvel's original series.

Yon-Rogg - (filed under "Other Kree") Mar-Vell's superior officer, ostensibly the guy in telling Vell whatever it was that he decided not to do.

The Supreme Intelligence - (also filed under "Other Kree")

I think SWORD is valid, especially because the adaptation went so well in the cartoon, with Abigail Brand, Henry Peter Gyrich (another longtime X-Verse visitor) and Cidren.

It'd be interesting to take Moonstone from a purely Kree perspective (I think the stone is originally Kree in 616 as well.) Wonder Man doesn't flow with that so well, but with Moonstone subbing in for the whole Masters of Evil, Wonder Man can definitely fall under Ms. Marvel's umbrella. Interesting.

Edit: What would really be impressive is if they could some redeem the Marcus/Immortus storyline into something that wasn't completely deplorable.

Originally Posted by KangConquers

Exactly. Ms. Marvel literally has made it three or four volumes without establishing an actual rogues gallery or a consistent supporting cast. They just throw random threats at her so she can run around looking like this:

and in typical "Women in refrigerators" tradition, fall into convenient bondage situations, and situations where she's violated or abused mentally or physically.

Wow. Is it that bad? I picked up a trade with this random arc with Dr. Strange and a publicist, and some crazy time jumping wizard. I was hoping the whole thing wasn't like that.

Originally Posted by Human Torch

I don't know why there's this fear of female heroes with bare legs.Wonder Woman has to wear pants or she looks like a tramp? I mean,from that reasoning all female tennis players should be made to wear pants.

Bare legs would be great, there's no problem/fear with that. Perhaps you should read up on Thigh High Boots (third paragraph, or the fetish section), if you have any other questions about why that particular clothing item is so closely identified with prostitution.

Originally Posted by KangConquers

Why does everyone have to take a shot at GOTG every time I make a point just because I have a Raccoon in my Avatar...(though I admit, GOTG just fought Adam Warlock's rogues.)

I want Ms. Captain to succeed, they just have a lot of work to do. Since becoming a Superhero in 1977, she's been raped, depowered, become an alcoholic, made a fool of herself, court marshaled for criminal endangerment....

They tried to make her a major player in 2005-2009, but she kind of just wound up as Tony's side kick with enormous hooters and butt cheeks hanging out vs a character with her own niche.

They either need to work really fast, or come up with original material to make her a character who can stand on her own in a solo film.

Boom. That's it. Everyone seems to have their 'thing' that they do, except Carol.

Originally Posted by spideymouse

I think her origin as it relates to the Kree (Mar-Vell, Ronan, etc.) can be pretty good material for a solo film (as well as lead-in for Avengers-related stuff), and some people have brought up her personal struggles with her parentage as a potentially intriguing character hook for a superhero. We've also discussed the idea of her niche being the human liaison between Earth and the cosmic side of the MCU, especially if she were to work for SWORD, a la A:EMH. Unfortunately, Peter Quill might very well be filling that niche instead.

He might, but it's more likely that he'll be doing the opposite, and representing humanity to the cosmic side, or at least, that's what I'd dream and prefer! But I think her thing with her parents can really hit home as an emotional subplot, and that niche works, her as the alien go-to girl. With her in SWORD it works even better, and even moreso in the MCU where no one has the alien thing 'down' like they do in 616.

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by Chewy

And that's fair. But at the same time, the villains they're using for the movies don't have to necessarily be long-time foes, either. Malekith and Kurse were in fewer than 10 issues each, Iron Monger was in fewer than 20, they just up and made a new Whiplash for the movie. They just have to find an "in" to tell specific stories with specific characters. I guess borrowing some of the other heroes' villains who won't make into their films doesn't bother me.

I'm hoping KSD gives her a nice villain or two over the next year or so, too.

True. We have "strange" villain choices that have worked dating back to Zod in Superman II (at the time, he wasn't even really a top 10 Superman villain.) It's all about Having that in.


I like Moonstone, but she's a bit too much of an Evil Ms. Marvel in all of the wrong ways (looks and powers) without being a good foil (a soldier and a manipulative criminally insane psychologist.)

Ms. Marvel's gotten saddled with MODOK on more than one occasion, but I don't know that she has any reason to fight him other than that MODOK has always ping ponged around the Marvel Universe, fighting everyone, and only being mildly more associated with his original enemy (Captain America) than he is with about 5 other characters (Iron Man, Hulk, Spider-Man, Nick Fury, and Carol herself.)

She needs some sort of enemy that speaks to (or against) what she specifically stands for, and ties in with her history in a relevant way. At this point, the only villains she has true history with are Mar-Vell's villains, Avengers rogues, and Mystique.

[DrCosmic]

What is it she stands for again?
Honestly.