Ms. Marvel in the works? - Part 1

[Chewy]

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

Boom. That's it. Everyone seems to have their 'thing' that they do, except Carol.

And they've got a great one that's right in front of them, that they keep inching toward but still haven't gone all-in on. She's the perfect connective tissue between the Avengers and the cosmic.

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

What is it she stands for again?
Honestly.

Not much really. Carol's history, is at it's core a "woman trying to make it in a man's world" story. She came from a traditional family/ her dad loved her brothers more etc. etc.

Her relationship with Mar-Vell was more of one where she was in awe and inspired by him, yet saw him as a challenge she had to meet vs. any sort of love interest.

The thing that keeps her from being an inspirational tale of feminism is well...being raped, exploited, depowered, cast out of the avengers, becoming an alcoholic...For every step forward she takes, she always seems to take 5 or 10 back.

[spideymouse]

Originally Posted by Chewy

Will you look at us, we're having an actual conversation about things that are actually relevant here

Ms. Marvel needs to have exposed thighs.


Heh. Kidding.

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

What is it she stands for again?
Honestly.

I'd like to see her stand for humanity, in both its vulnerability and its strength, in its frailty and its fortitude. In the face of foreign entities that would threaten humanity, it would be cool to see her represent the human spirit and how it continues to fight despite terrible odds. I think the Kree would be the perfect enemy to speak against that.

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by Chewy

And they've got a great one that's right in front of them, that they keep inching toward but still haven't gone all-in on. She's the perfect connective tissue between the Avengers and the cosmic.

Captain Marvel is begging to become Marvel's Wonder Woman. Marvel's top females have always been someone's wife, someone's girlfriend, lost in a team dynamic etc. There's never been a real solo woman franchise in Marvel, and I think Carol's as good of a choice as any.

[Human Torch]

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

Bare legs would be great, there's no problem/fear with that. Perhaps you should read up on Thigh High Boots (third paragraph, or the fetish section), if you have any other questions about why that particular clothing item is so closely identified with prostitution.

Hot Pants were associated with prostitution as well,but that didn't stop Supergirl (America's Superhero sweetheart) from wearing them in the 70's.

It's a Superhero costume.There's no need to read too much into it.

[Chewy]

Originally Posted by KangConquers

Captain Marvel is begging to become Marvel's Wonder Woman. Marvel's top females have always been someone's wife, someone's girlfriend, lost in a team dynamic etc. There's never been a real solo woman franchise in Marvel, and I think Carol's as good of a choice as any.

Yep. Give her SWORD and the Avengers as a supporting cast, start exploring/creating alien races beyond the Skrulls/Kree/Shi'ar as your "in". There's your story, there's your book. They're on the right track but they need to think bigger

[spideymouse]

Originally Posted by Chewy

Yep. Give her SWORD and the Avengers as a supporting cast, start exploring/creating alien races beyond the Skrulls/Kree/Shi'ar as your "in". There's your story, there's your book. They're on the right track but they need to think bigger

Hopefully GOTG and the Thanos mid-credits scene is a signal that the Earth is ready for a higher form of warbird. And a sign that Marvel Studios is thinking bigger.

[Chewy]

Hopefully. I rarely buy single issue comics anymore but I've been picking up Captain Marvel to support the cause.

Don't **** this up, Marvel

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by Chewy

Hopefully. I rarely buy single issue comics anymore but I've been picking up Captain Marvel to support the cause.

Don't **** this up, Marvel

I just thought of your ultimate nightmare...Frank Miller's Captain Marvel...

[Chewy]

Originally Posted by KangConquers

I just thought of your ultimate nightmare...Frank Miller's Captain Marvel...

Wouldn't be any worse than the immortus stuff

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by Chewy

Wouldn't be any worse than the immortus stuff

Well...it would be EXACTLY the Immortus stuff. Except Ms. Marvel would be a hooker.

[Whiskey Tango]

Originally Posted by KangConquers

I just thought of your ultimate nightmare...Frank Miller's Captain Marvel...

"And so then Captain Marvel punches the guy and WHORESWHORESWHORES"

[DrCosmic]

Originally Posted by Whiskey Tango

"And so then Captain Marvel punches the guy and WHORESWHORESWHORES"

"I've seen the seedy underbelly of the universe. The cosmos stinks like a dog in heat. Too much bleeding, not enough blood..."

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by Whiskey Tango

"And so then Captain Marvel punches the guy and WHORESWHORESWHORES"

Lol

Carol: Cap, Marcus raped me...
*Captain America backhands her*
WHORES WHORES WHORES!

[DrCosmic]

Originally Posted by Chewy

And they've got a great one that's right in front of them, that they keep inching toward but still haven't gone all-in on. She's the perfect connective tissue between the Avengers and the cosmic.

She is, even her powers lend towards dealing with cosmic energies and stuff. She has all the connections... man.

Originally Posted by KangConquers

Not much really. Carol's history, is at it's core a "woman trying to make it in a man's world" story. She came from a traditional family/ her dad loved her brothers more etc. etc.

Her relationship with Mar-Vell was more of one where she was in awe and inspired by him, yet saw him as a challenge she had to meet vs. any sort of love interest.

The thing that keeps her from being an inspirational tale of feminism is well...being raped, exploited, depowered, cast out of the avengers, becoming an alcoholic...For every step forward she takes, she always seems to take 5 or 10 back.

Hmmm... "Girls can do it too." That has some potential, and it's really what she's kinda there for/doing anyway. Especially if she actually does it, and becomes someone who's more than just a girl hero, but a super duper alien enforcer par excellance.

Originally Posted by spideymouse

I'd like to see her stand for humanity, in both its vulnerability and its strength, in its frailty and its fortitude. In the face of foreign entities that would threaten humanity, it would be cool to see her represent the human spirit and how it continues to fight despite terrible odds. I think the Kree would be the perfect enemy to speak against that.

Hmmm... that's cool for her own film... I wonder how such a take would play out in the Avengers. Would she be 'the people's Avenger?' Because that, and representing the human spirit, is kinda what Cap does in spades.

Hmmm... I'll think on this, come back to it later.

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

She is, even her powers lend towards dealing with cosmic energies and stuff. She has all the connections... man.



Hmmm... "Girls can do it too." That has some potential, and it's really what she's kinda there for/doing anyway. Especially if she actually does it, and becomes someone who's more than just a girl hero, but a super duper alien enforcer par excellance.



Hmmm... that's cool for her own film... I wonder how such a take would play out in the Avengers. Would she be 'the people's Avenger?' Because that, and representing the human spirit, is kinda what Cap does in spades.

Hmmm... I'll think on this, come back to it later.

A great thing to try to do with Carol would be make her face heavy adversity without...being raped, depowered etc. To have her own place in the Avengers, she'd probably have to be somwhere between Tony and Cap. More of Cap's spirit, but with some of Tony's flaws. If they can do that, then she has a niche in the team.

[spideymouse]

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

Hmmm... that's cool for her own film... I wonder how such a take would play out in the Avengers. Would she be 'the people's Avenger?' Because that, and representing the human spirit, is kinda what Cap does in spades.

Hmmm... I'll think on this, come back to it later.

That's a good point about Cap. But perhaps there's room for both. Cap is certainly "the people's Avenger," representing the little guy. Carol could be "the planet's Avenger," defending Earth's (and its inhabitants') very right to exist. Of course, that does overlap a bit with both Cap and Thor, but oh well. Still more of a role than token female.

I like the idea of Ms./Capt. Marvel actually having some authority on certain matters, as well as a contrasting leadership style from Cap's. The greatest of leaders have consultants/confidants regarding the areas in life in which they themselves do not have an expertise (see: Captain Kirk with Spock and Bones, and even Scotty at times). I could see Cap respecting Carol's knowledge/experience enough to delegate some responsibility/defer to her--and in doing so, the rest of the team (even the supergeniuses) would follow his lead.

[Chewy]

Originally Posted by KangConquers

A great thing to try to do with Carol would be make her face heavy adversity without...being raped, depowered etc. To have her own place in the Avengers, she'd probably have to be somwhere between Tony and Cap. More of Cap's spirit, but with some of Tony's flaws. If they can do that, then she has a niche in the team.

Yeah, "Earth's liaison to space" is kind of a daunting title. You can write a good story about a screw-up, an error in judgement, and having to put herself back together and overcome it. Without resorting to her being raped or stuffed in a fridge

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by Chewy

Yeah, "Earth's liaison to space" is kind of a daunting title. You can write a good story about a screw-up, an error in judgement, and having to put herself back together and overcome it. Without resorting to her being raped or stuffed in a fridge

It's a bit Mary Sue to have them all defer to her too. "Hey general audience, you know this 3.7 Billion dollar film franchise you've been watching for 5 years? All these characters are now deferring to a second stringer female you've never heard of!"

It'd be a bit hard to swallow.

[Chewy]

Yeah, they wouldn't defer to her any more than they'd defer to Stark or Thor. They might listen to her, but they'd probably listen to any of their members. She's not Captain America.

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by Chewy

Yeah, they wouldn't defer to her any more than they'd defer to Stark or Thor. They might listen to her, but they'd probably listen to any of their members. She's not Captain America.

Exactly. Everyone defers to Captain America. The God of Thunder defers to him, why shouldn't Ms. Marvel?

[Hypestyle]

amazing the comicbook fans who could pass for colonial-era puritans.. curious.

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by Hypestyle

amazing the comicbook fans who could pass for colonial-era puritans.. curious.

How do you figure, sportsfan?

[DrCosmic]

Originally Posted by Chewy

Yeah, "Earth's liaison to space" is kind of a daunting title. You can write a good story about a screw-up, an error in judgement, and having to put herself back together and overcome it. Without resorting to her being raped or stuffed in a fridge

I think it'd be interesting if her screw up was doing it the 'right' way, where she does things like any good pilot or intelligence officer would do, and that doesn't work on this level. It requires a personal touch and some unorthodoxy to deal with these things.

Originally Posted by spideymouse

That's a good point about Cap. But perhaps there's room for both. Cap is certainly "the people's Avenger," representing the little guy. Carol could be "the planet's Avenger," defending Earth's (and its inhabitants') very right to exist. Of course, that does overlap a bit with both Cap and Thor, but oh well. Still more of a role than token female.

I like the idea of Ms./Capt. Marvel actually having some authority on certain matters, as well as a contrasting leadership style from Cap's. The greatest of leaders have consultants/confidants regarding the areas in life in which they themselves do not have an expertise (see: Captain Kirk with Spock and Bones, and even Scotty at times). I could see Cap respecting Carol's knowledge/experience enough to delegate some responsibility/defer to her--and in doing so, the rest of the team (even the supergeniuses) would follow his lead.

Yeah, I think that putting females as a balance between two males limits them, they can't do too much at all because they can't overlap the male co-stars. She needs her very own thing, I think.

I think authority might be on the right track, if the Avengers break off from SHIELD, as they very well might, she could be the one Avenger that still is SHIELD, and is the Liason to the Avengers, and represents their authority and interests. Which has the danger of making her an obstructive bureaucrat, but also gives her a lot of exposition dialogue and she can still become cool anyway.

Edit: Expanding on this idea, Liason/Mediator could very well be her niche. She could be the broker/peacemaker type, the one who fixes situations in a more TNG Trek-ish way. She can do that for the cosmos in her own property, she can do that between SHIELD and the Avengers in the films. Could be fun. It synchs with the idea of the more 'relational' woman, but is still prfessional. You can bring in shades of The Closer and other 'bout business female heroines.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by Hypestyle

amazing the comicbook fans who could pass for colonial-era puritans.. curious.

Originally Posted by KangConquers

How do you figure, sportsfan?

He's probably referring to all the posters in this thread who are mortally offended that Ms. Marvel wears thigh-highs and Wonder Woman wears star-spangled panties.

And he's certainly got a point. There's more prudes in this thread than there are likely to be amongst audiences who actually care about a Ms. Marvel or Wonder Woman movie.