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Old 09-05-2012, 02:37 PM   #26
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Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

If you want to draw parallels like Tom Mankawitz did in 1978 then fine, but virtually impossible to argue that the original inspiration for Superman was Jesus Christ. It wasn't. Shuster and Siegel were the sons of Jewish immigrants who left Europe likely because of antisemitism and pogroms. They themselves were a couple of Jewish pulp fiction fanboys who likely created Superman as a catharsis.

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Batman is Batman because of his bat motif's. Take them away and he's just Manman.
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Old 09-05-2012, 02:37 PM   #27
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Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

Yes the character has religious parallels, but they should move away from that and treat him as a human being with character flaws. Treat him as a character, not an allegory.


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Old 09-05-2012, 02:53 PM   #28
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Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

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Whatever happened to desperate scientist of a dying world, sent his child to a planet where his child would have the best possibility of survival. Clark Kent/KalEL doesn't help people because a hologram of his alien dead father told him its his destiny. He does it because its in his nature to help people. I like how Superman for all seasons simply had Clark be a good natured child who liked helping people to the point of getting his tuxedo he had saved up to buy dirty just to lend a hand to a person you know want show appreciation.
I don't know why it has to be an either/or thing. Obviously Superman wouldn't be Superman if he wasn't good-natured at heart; he'd be a force of cosmic destruction. It's his choice what to do with his power. People telling him what to do, and telling him his destiny, is actually the kind of pressure that would cause lesser men to snap and go the opposite direction... but instead, Clark takes it all in stride and finds his place in the world. That's what I love about Superman - no matter what other people want from him or how others perceive him, he's his own man, following his own path.

Just because Supes is naturally allegorical doesn't mean that defines or changes his character. It just means he can be analyzed in many different ways - like any good character.

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Old 09-05-2012, 03:04 PM   #29
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Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

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I don't know why it has to be an either/or thing. Obviously Superman wouldn't be Superman if he wasn't good-natured at heart; he'd be a force of cosmic destruction. It's his choice what to do with his power. People telling him what to do, and telling him his destiny, is actually the kind of pressure that would cause lesser men to snap and go the opposite direction... but instead, Clark takes it all in stride and finds his place in the world. That's what I love about Superman - no matter what other people want from him or how others perceive him, he's his own man, following his own path.

Just because Supes is naturally allegorical doesn't mean that defines or changes his character. It just means he can be analyzed in many different ways - like any good character.
Great post

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Old 09-05-2012, 03:05 PM   #30
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Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

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I don't know why it has to be an either/or thing. Obviously Superman wouldn't be Superman if he wasn't good-natured at heart; he'd be a force of cosmic destruction. It's his choice what to do with his power. People telling him what to do, and telling him his destiny, is actually the kind of pressure that would cause lesser men to snap and go the opposite direction... but instead, Clark takes it all in stride and finds his place in the world. That's what I love about Superman - no matter what other people want from him or how others perceive him, he's his own man, following his own path.

Just because Supes is naturally allegorical doesn't mean that defines or changes his character. It just means he can be analyzed in many different ways - like any good character.
The whole concept of destiny usually leads to predetermined fate, I personally have never liked that. I view Superman as someone who would say we create our own paths and chose how we live our lives. I liked how MOS released two trailers with the concept of choice and destiny from Jorel and Jonathan. This way both groups of the fandom who favor both are pleased.

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Old 09-05-2012, 03:38 PM   #31
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Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

I think it would be great to see this film establish his code in MOS and then have his code challenged, and ultimately modified throughout the course of a trilogy, much like what Nolan did with batman. Allow for realistic and natural change in a person. And he should certainly make mistakes along the way, and have to learn from them. Having Lois die would be a hugely interesting test for Superman, but it would be hard not to compare it to Nolan's trilogy. Still, it would allow for a lot of character exploration.

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Old 09-05-2012, 03:50 PM   #32
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Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

I'd say he's more of an allegory of Moses than Jesus.

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Old 09-05-2012, 04:12 PM   #33
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Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

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Whatever happened to desperate scientist of a dying world, sent his child to a planet where his child would have the best possibility of survival. Clark Kent/KalEL doesn't help people because a hologram of his alien dead father told him its his destiny. He does it because its in his nature to help people.
That is what I want from MOS.

I don't even want Krypton to be mentioned much once it blows up. No more holograms or magic crystals. Let John be the only father figure in Clark's life and please let Superman build the Fortress of Solitude using his own power and imagination.

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Old 09-05-2012, 06:05 PM   #34
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That is what I want from MOS.

I don't even want Krypton to be mentioned much once it blows up. No more holograms or magic crystals. Let John be the only father figure in Clark's life and please let Superman build the Fortress of Solitude using his own power and imagination.
This movie will be Krypton heavy.The main villain is from krypton.If you seen the comic con trailer , clark meet face to face with jor-el.The fortress will be created through kryptonian technology.You will be disappointed if you expect them to abandon his kryptonian heritage.

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Old 09-05-2012, 07:11 PM   #35
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Default Re: Is Superman a Jesus metaphor?

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Not sure if this has been discussed. Sorry if that's the case!

With most of you Americans being quite conservative and very religious do you think it would be a good a idea to see Clark/Superman as a metaphor for Jesus in "MoS"... a type of messiah figure??

I got this idea while listening to Jor-Els words from the teaser trailer. It seemed very religion-themed to me. Jor-El sends his son to earth, who's raised by human parents, simple people. At some point in the comics he even dies and comes back to life shortly after. They could go the same route in a future installment. Also in the MoS teaser, Superman is confronted with the army, people seem to be afraid of him... This could be an analogy to the hatred that Jesus was confronted with.

Don't know if that'd be a good or a "dangerous" idea though... Didn't mean to offend anyone!
Superman was actually a Mosses metaphor. His origin story mimics Mosses’ origin. Superman in a way was supposed to be a stand in for the Jewish messiah just not the Christian Jewish messiah aka (Jesus).

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Old 09-05-2012, 07:33 PM   #36
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Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

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Originally Posted by StarvingArtist View Post
If you want to draw parallels like Tom Mankawitz did in 1978 then fine, but virtually impossible to argue that the original inspiration for Superman was Jesus Christ. It wasn't. Shuster and Siegel were the sons of Jewish immigrants who left Europe likely because of antisemitism and pogroms. They themselves were a couple of Jewish pulp fiction fanboys who likely created Superman as a catharsis.
I donít think you have to be Christian to be influenced by the Jesus/messiah archetype (which arguably derives from even earlier mythologies). It obviously impressed/influenced Mankiewicz, Donner and Singer (all Jewish).

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Old 09-05-2012, 07:48 PM   #37
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Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

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Originally Posted by LordofhouseEl View Post
Whatever happened to desperate scientist of a dying world, sent his child to a planet where his child would have the best possibility of survival. Clark Kent/KalEL doesn't help people because a hologram of his alien dead father told him its his destiny. He does it because its in his nature to help people. I like how Superman for all seasons simply had Clark be a good natured child who liked helping people to the point of getting his tuxedo he had saved up to buy dirty just to lend a hand to a person you know want show appreciation.

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Old 09-05-2012, 08:16 PM   #38
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Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

He can be, but he doesn't have to be and I would prefer him not to be, or at the least, a Jesus in the Last Temptation of Christ mode IE it's not easy being a savior.

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Old 09-05-2012, 08:21 PM   #39
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Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

Moses, Jesus, Heracles, the Nietzscheian Overman, the "epitome" of evolution, the pre-Nazi ideal of eugenic superscience, the two-fisted pulp hero; he's an amalgamation of all these archetypes, but with the moral values of a working class everyman. I don't want any one aspect of his to be overplayed. So, no, let's not go down the explicitly Jesus route with this reboot, please.


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Old 09-05-2012, 08:35 PM   #40
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Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

I think Superman can be interpreted in different ways and I've never had any problem with the Jesus metaphor. In general, I prefer Superman being presented as a metaphor to a god or some sort of deity, but not literally, but he doesn't have to specifically parallel Jesus.

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Old 09-05-2012, 10:49 PM   #41
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Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

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This movie will be Krypton heavy.The main villain is from krypton.If you seen the comic con trailer , clark meet face to face with jor-el.The fortress will be created through kryptonian technology.You will be disappointed if you expect them to abandon his kryptonian heritage.

Not gonna lie, I'm a little disappointed.

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Old 09-05-2012, 11:10 PM   #42
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Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

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Old 09-06-2012, 02:52 AM   #43
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Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

If they wanna throw in the allegories for Jesus or touch upon the religious undertones, I'd rather they just come out in the open with it instead of seeding an entire movie with it.

Just have Supes or Clark befriend a not-so fanatical priest and they could calmly discuss the (obvious) parallels with Supes as earth's savior. And Supes would respectfully shoot it down in his own grounded way. That way we'll get at least 2 sides to the character's motivations and symbolisms.

Might as well get it out of the way and not be so ambiguous about it. Could be done with in a matter of minutes really.

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Old 09-06-2012, 08:53 AM   #44
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Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

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4. Superman's alien aspect is directly tied to the Christ metaphor.
wait... Jesus is an alien? no wonder we killed him

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Old 09-06-2012, 08:56 AM   #45
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wait... Jesus is an alien? no wonder we killed him
A mangod who originates from on high? Yeah, sounds pretty alien to me.

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Old 09-06-2012, 09:41 AM   #46
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Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

The answer is yes.

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Old 09-06-2012, 10:26 AM   #47
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I guess that mean zod is satan.
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So I guess this still make Jor-El God...
Actually Lex Luthor has always shown devil like character, tempting Superman and being jealous of him.
Also, Superman has lotsa devil like villains like Satanus and etc.
There are also too many coincidences. Jor-el sending his son to earth and all. a young couple adopted superman. Johnathan and Martha. Joseph and Mary.
He was born on earth and raised up by great parents. But at the same time Superman has always had a very close relationship to Jor El. Via a certain mean. Be it in the fortress of solitude or other means. Kinda like how Jesus always talked to god and had a close relationship with god.

I mean the coincidences are just way too many. Both of them also died and came back to life in a few days. I'm sure the new film will draw influences also. I mean look at Jor El and Pa Kent's speech

You will give the people an ideal to strive towards. They'll race behind you, they will stumble, they will fall. In time, they join you in the sun. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders. -Jor El

You're not just anyone. One day you're going to have to make a choice, you have to decide what kinda man you want to grow up to be. Whoever that man is, good character or bad, its going to change the world. - Pa Kent

No other characters in DC or Marvel have their supporting characters say things like "you'll give the people an ideal to strive towards" no other character would be told by their father, they are going to change the world. Could you imagine someone telling Spiderman or Captain America that? I never saw Spiderman or Captain America as someone that is an ideal or that he will change the world. But I see Superman as someone with limitless power that can save the world.
Over the years writers have plenty of times written Superman as someone who is a Jesus Metaphor. Even Grant Morrison.

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Old 09-06-2012, 10:46 AM   #48
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Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

Funny observation, but "live like Superman" is an easy (albeit a bit glossed over) way of explaining how to be Buddhist.

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Old 09-06-2012, 12:18 PM   #49
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Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

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I donít think you have to be Christian to be influenced by the Jesus/messiah archetype (which arguably derives from even earlier mythologies). It obviously impressed/influenced Mankiewicz, Donner and Singer (all Jewish).
True, but documentation on S&S inspirations for the character speak of pulp fiction and details from their lives. No trace of christian influence anywhere There's been speculation on whether or not they were inspired by their Jewish backgrounds as sons of Jewish immigrants either unconsciously or overtly, I think there was a book written about it. But given the era in which they grew up and their backgrounds, making a case for Jesus being the inspiration is flimsy at best. The Jesus metaphor came later.

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Old 09-06-2012, 12:28 PM   #50
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Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

I don't if I'm bugging but I could have sworn Clark acknowledged that there was a God? I don't remember where I read it but I think he had said thank God you are alright.......

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