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Old 08-12-2012, 01:15 PM   #51
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Default Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?

Winter soldier seems like a good addition but do hope it doesnt fall into the same traps as Ironman 2

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Old 08-12-2012, 03:37 PM   #52
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Default Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?

Ahem.
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Originally Posted by Majik1387 View Post
I don't see how it's adding a lot of characters at all. Most of who Steve interacted with in the past would be too old or dead by now.

Peggy Carter - Too old or dead
Colonel Phillips - Too old or dead
Howard Stark - Most likely dead(based on Iron Man movies' time-frame)
Dr. Erskine - Dead
Heinz Kruger - Dead
The 5 Howling Commando members:
Tim "Dum Dum" Dugan - Too old, or a Shield agent as in the comics
Gabe Jones - Too old or dead
Jim Morita - Too old or dead
Jacques Denier - Too old or dead
James Falsworth - Too old, dead, or saved to later be used as Union Jack

That's 8-10 characters out. Plenty of room for more.

So far the only new characters are Falcon and Winter Soldier, though the latter was technically in the last movie. Maybe Sharon Carter if the end female Shield Agent(Amanda Righetti) isn't her.

Returning characters?
Captain America
Nick Fury(most likely)

Those added up are 5 characters total.

Possible returning characters if story/script permits:
Red Skull(depending on if he really dissolved by the Cosmic Cube or was transported to another dimension; etc)
Arnim Zola(depending on how much inspiration they take from the comic for the character)

So.....7 characters?

Yeah, you are the only one who doesn't like how this is going.

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Old 08-12-2012, 04:51 PM   #53
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Default Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?

Cap
Fury
Falcon
Bucky
Sharon
another villain (Zemo?)
possibly Widow and Hawkeye

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Old 08-12-2012, 04:53 PM   #54
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Default Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?

Exactly. Nothing to worry about.

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Old 08-23-2012, 11:57 PM   #55
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Default Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?

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The fact that during the course of its production they already planed to use MODOK, plan to make it about a man out of time, are already going to use the Winter Soldier, are going to have the Falcon, there are rumors of SHIELD being important, of Hawkeye and maybe Black Widow making an appearance, confronting an old Peggy, more flashbacks of world war II are being mentioned since they mentioned a sequel, and Armin Zola as villain was foreshadowed in the first film.

In my humble opinion they haven't seemed to be shure about what to do until now, but that's just my opinion.


Until theirs proof, I call fanboy speculation. The old Peggy thing is the Avengers scene that was never filmed and possibly wont. Even still, it's not like Steve is going to on some adventure with a 90 year old woman. Shield is house the Captain but that doesn't mean they are going to have Hawkeye and Widow being on him the whole movie, if they even make a cameo. It's just a way to get Cap the tools and what not he needs to do the job. He isn't Tony Stark with a crap ton of money. I doubt the movie is going to be pure WW2 flashbacks. I doubt we will anything more then Steve and Bucky chilling out and cut to Captain America vs the Winter Soldier. Armin Zola may have been foreshadowed but that doesn't mean he has to appear. It's alright to have unresolved plot threads. It doesn't mean they need to be resolved in the next film.

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Old 09-04-2012, 05:35 PM   #56
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Default Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?

It goes without saying that it's far too early to say whether the film will be any good or not, but I don't have a problem with any of the story concepts thus far.

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Old 09-05-2012, 12:56 AM   #57
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Default Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?

It isn't so much as I don't like where this is going as much as I had hoped this isn't where they were going.

I think the Winter Soldier storyline is one of the best that Marvel could do, but there's a an optimal time for time, and that was Captain America 3. It works, in my opinion, because Bucky came back at a time when his death was the status quo and Steve had accepted it.

Allegedly, the film picks up soon after the Avengers, so to Steve, Bucky has only been dead for three months or so. That's too soon.

The other reason is that a Winter Soldier movie would have to be heavily about Steve and Bucky, meaning stuff like Steve's relationship with Sharon and friendship with Sam would have to receive less emphasis than if it was another movie.

Ideally, I'd wanted Cap2 to be Steve fighting a new villain, meeting Sam and Sharon in the process and establishing him as Rogers' people in the 21st century before focusing on Steve and Bucky in the third movie.

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Old 09-05-2012, 04:53 AM   #58
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Default Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?

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It isn't so much as I don't like where this is going as much as I had hoped this isn't where they were going.

I think the Winter Soldier storyline is one of the best that Marvel could do, but there's a an optimal time for time, and that was Captain America 3. It works, in my opinion, because Bucky came back at a time when his death was the status quo and Steve had accepted it.

Allegedly, the film picks up soon after the Avengers, so to Steve, Bucky has only been dead for three months or so. That's too soon.

The other reason is that a Winter Soldier movie would have to be heavily about Steve and Bucky, meaning stuff like Steve's relationship with Sharon and friendship with Sam would have to receive less emphasis than if it was another movie.

Ideally, I'd wanted Cap2 to be Steve fighting a new villain, meeting Sam and Sharon in the process and establishing him as Rogers' people in the 21st century before focusing on Steve and Bucky in the third movie.
Where are you getting your timeline info? Here's my go to timeline. It seems to fit very nicely together and the guy does/cites a lot of work:

http://www.tiki-toki.com/timeline/en...01-01_15:06:15!

By this, Cap continued fighting in WWII for several (up to 11) months after Bucky "dies." Then, a year passes after Rogers is found in the ice. To Steve, Bucky has been dead for closer to 2 years. To the rest of the world, he has been dead for roughly 70. Hope that makes you feel better.

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Old 09-05-2012, 05:22 AM   #59
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Default Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?

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Where are you getting your timeline info? Here's my go to timeline. It seems to fit very nicely together and the guy does/cites a lot of work:

http://www.tiki-toki.com/timeline/en...01-01_15:06:15!

By this, Cap continued fighting in WWII for several (up to 11) months after Bucky "dies." Then, a year passes after Rogers is found in the ice. To Steve, Bucky has been dead for closer to 2 years. To the rest of the world, he has been dead for roughly 70. Hope that makes you feel better.
That isn't official. It doesn't mention Bucky, anyway.

Bucky falls off the train in a mission to grab Zola. When they get Zola back to HQ, he talks to Col. Philips, who debriefs the Commandos that Schmidt's offensive will launch in twenty-four hours.

That, at most, is two, three days between Bucky and Cap going MIA.

As for the modern day. I don't see any sources for why The Avengers is a year after Cap is found.

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Old 09-05-2012, 07:57 AM   #60
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Default Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?

I agree with you about saving Bucky for a later film, Bull.
I don't think it matters how much time Steve perceives Bucky has been dead, though --- I think what made Brubaker's Winter Soldier story arc so effective, instead, was the fact that Steve had *long* been established in the modern era, and his ties to Sam Wilson and Sharon Carter were a lot stronger and more developed before WS arrived on the scene.

In this movie, we won't get that....Sam and Sharon will be just as new to Cap's world as Winter Soldier will. So there's definitely less dramatic tension there than Brubaker was able to show.

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Old 09-05-2012, 12:33 PM   #61
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Default Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?

It kinda makes you wonder if they are thinking about having Cap die in a later movie and have Bucky take over... why else rush to bring him back so quickly??

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Old 09-05-2012, 01:26 PM   #62
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Default Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?

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It kinda makes you wonder if they are thinking about having Cap die in a later movie and have Bucky take over... why else rush to bring him back so quickly??
Well, its a very popular storyline. The success of the 2nd movie isn't a guarantee and they might not get to make a 3rd.

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Old 09-05-2012, 01:29 PM   #63
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Default Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?

And they probably already have a third movie with either the return of Red Skull or Baron Zemo's shenanigans plotted out

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Old 09-05-2012, 02:29 PM   #64
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Default Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?

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And they probably already have a third movie with either the return of Red Skull or Baron Zemo's shenanigans plotted out


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Old 09-05-2012, 04:14 PM   #65
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Default Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?

I'm not so sure about bringing in Falcon so fast.There's going to be a lot of stuff to deal with,so I think they should've held Falcon back to 3.

Of course,if they just introduce Sam Wilson (like Rhodey in Iron Man) I guess that would serve.Just wait to give him the wings.

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Old 09-05-2012, 10:17 PM   #66
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Default Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?

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I'm not so sure about bringing in Falcon so fast.There's going to be a lot of stuff to deal with,so I think they should've held Falcon back to 3.

Of course,if they just introduce Sam Wilson (like Rhodey in Iron Man) I guess that would serve.Just wait to give him the wings.
Why wait? Audiences are savvy enough to keep up with more than one superhero at a time (Avengers proved that).

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Old 09-06-2012, 01:52 AM   #67
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Default Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?

It depends on where the story goes,I guess.We have so much to deal with already:

Cap getting acclimated/fish out of water stuff (this wasn't really handled in Avengers)
Finding out what happened to Peggy/Howling Commandos
Bucky/Winter Solder
Probably Black Widow's involvement
Possibly Hawkeye
Sharon Carter introduction
Sam Wilson introduction

Don't get me wrong,it's not that I don't want to see Falcon,I just want his origin done justice,and not shoe-horned into a movie that's overly stuffed.

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Old 09-06-2012, 01:53 PM   #68
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Default Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?

I would have preferred Marvel saving the Winter Soldier arc for the third movie and have him fight Hydra or some equivalent first. Perhaps a robot Zola, return of the Skull, Zemo (introduced with flashbacks from WW2), etc.

But I'm sure they will make the Bucky story work. And I think Falcon will be fine, especially if he is Shield Agent Sam Wilson, who's gimmick is a flight suit. Much like Ultimate Falcon or Hawkeye from Thor/Avengers movies. He does need to be more of a minor character and maybe even get offed/injured by the Winter Soldier.

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Old 09-06-2012, 02:08 PM   #69
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Default Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?

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He does need to be more of a minor character and maybe even get offed/injured by the Winter Soldier.
Why?

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Old 09-08-2012, 10:40 AM   #70
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Default Re: Am i the only one that doesn't like how this is going?

I think some of the concerns about the film having too many disparate elements are unfounded. In theory, all the characters and themes of the film should operate in harmony with each other and the plot. Thus, looking at the problem as 'including Falcon, the Winter Solider and Cap's man out of time issues will mean the film is stretched too thin' or any permutation of that is flawed. A good script will link these elements and mean they work in context with each other. If the script is bad, then it doesn't matter whether one or one hundred different characters are used.

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