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Old 09-07-2012, 12:10 AM   #51
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Default Re: Thanos and Loki

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okay so a quick little conspiracy theory. what if loki was trying to get caught, not talking about the shield thing. i mean taken back to asgard long enough to be in the throneroom to do his little trick of making a false copy. the copy could be reemed by odin while the real loki steals the gauntlet for thanos. or loki getting yelled at and sentenced by odin is a diversion and thanos will just somehow break into the armory and steal the gauntlet himself. the destroyer is gone for now so all thanos needs to do is sneak in an steal it.

anyway as far as loki and thanos. i said before and i'll say it again. if they do the IF. loki is gonna take mephisto's place from the comic as a sidekick to thanos. also all this talk of dr. strange coming up all we need is for marvel to try and get galactus and the silver surfer and we could really do the infinity gauntlet story.
The growing Dr. Strange rumors make an odd bit of sense. For one thing, his services will probably be needed against Thanos, since he was part of that story line and all; and there was that Orb of Agamotto shown in Odin's Treasury, of course; and we know that Marvel have officially stated that there's a Dr. Strange movie coming sometime soon. So yeah, that lends creedence to the Gauntlet theory, too.

I'm not so sure that Loki needs to be Thanos' sidekick, though....I'd say that the original character "The Other" already fulfills the role that Mephisto played in the comics.

But otherwise, I like your theory that Loki might be double-crossing the double-crossers....his mind *is* that twisted and devious. Definitely can't put it past him.

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Old 09-07-2012, 04:22 AM   #52
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No. It will be too Thor centered. loki will not be in another Avengers movie

I am hoping Avengers 2 is Ultron with Thanos behind the scenes
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You can't really mix Ultron and Thanos. They're too completely different villains and it would seem forced.

Loki will be in Avengers 2 in some capacity, even if it's just a cameo. The most-likely villains of the film want to murder him after all.
I think Ultron with behind the scenes Thanos is possible. Not that he's controlling Ultron. I don't think we're talking team up here. At least, I don't think that's what jaqua is saying.

At its most minimal, Thanos could be the star of the after credits sequence again. Or maybe there could be a little more to it. Some suggest Ultron could be powered by the Power Gem. I like that idea. Also, some time during the film, a GotG rep might show up to warn about Thanos. Or Thanos himself sends them a message.

I'm sure there are plenty of ways to do it. But no I agree, Thanos won't team up with or be controlling Ultron.

No comment on Loki. Who knows what will happen to him in Thor:TDW

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Old 09-07-2012, 04:41 AM   #53
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Perhaps, it's not, but It was never said flat out in the movie that it wasn't the mind gem . If it is the exact same energy, and power as the cube, why is Thanos so desperate to get the cube?
In the comics he wanted it for general "controlling the universe" reasons I think. But it doesnt seem quite powerful enough in the MCU to do that.

I think he wants the cube to search for the gems and/or power the gems. I'm guessing the latter. They talk about the scepter being powered by the cube throughout the film. But a form of transportation isn't enough of a reason for Thanos to want the cube.

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Look for the Gems? IDK. I imagined it as just a portion of the Tesseract Thanos has. So it's not as powerful as the Cube but Thanos and The Other can use it as a weapon and are mentally linked to it.
Thanos doesn't have the Tesseract. Do you mean Thanos had said portion of the Tesseract from some point in MCU history? Thousands of years before? I guess maybe... but isnt that a little more convoluted than the theory of it being the Mind Gem?

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Old 09-07-2012, 04:50 AM   #54
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Default Re: Thanos and Loki

Loki's scepter couldve looked like ANYthing. But it looked like the one thing already confirmed in the universe that controls minds. The fact that it actually has something to do with Thanos only further supports the theory. He put it in Loki's hand. Is it harder to believe that Thanos would temporarily "give it up" than it is to believe there are two blue gems that do exactly the same thing in the same Universe?


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Old 09-07-2012, 07:49 AM   #55
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Default Re: Thanos and Loki

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Loki's scepter couldve looked like ANYthing. But it looked like the one thing already confirmed in the universe that controls minds. The fact that it actually has something to do with Thanos only further supports the theory. He put it in Loki's hand. Is it harder to believe that Thanos would temporarily "give it up" than it is to believe there are two blue gems that do exactly the same thing in the same Universe?

Sure, I agree the thing in the sceptre looks like a Mind Gem, and when it first appeared in set photos, I was among those who theorized the same thing. But after seeing the movie, and with the movie quotes referenced above, it seemed pretty clear to me that Joss was making no bones about the fact that the Tesseract was what gave the sceptre its power.

Joss is, of course, well-versed in Marvel lore, and knows all about the Infinity Gems. If he had intended for that to be the Mind Gem, I'm sure he would've at least referenced it. Instead, he went out of his way to show that the sceptre derived its power from the Tesseract. As far as I'm concerned, reading anything beyond that is reaching a bit too far.

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Old 09-07-2012, 08:46 AM   #56
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Default Re: Thanos and Loki

One thing is for certain, we don't know the full extent of the MCU cosmic cube's power.

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Old 09-07-2012, 10:23 AM   #57
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Default Re: Thanos and Loki

No, we don't. For all we know it COULD control minds.

Another thing that supports my theory: Loki says he's seen the true power of the Tesseract. Well, the guys he's working for don't have it. But what do they have that contains a part of the Tesseract?

The scepter.

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Old 09-07-2012, 10:44 AM   #58
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I still contend that the scepter is nothing particularly special. Its just a magic amplifier slash indestructible weapon, that happens to draw on the same energy source as the tesseract.

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Old 09-07-2012, 10:50 AM   #59
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Default Re: Thanos and Loki

Also, the BIGGEST piece of evidence that it's part of/powered by the Tesseract.

It was the only thing to shut down the portal, which was in turn powered by the Cube!

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Old 09-07-2012, 11:31 AM   #60
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Default Re: Thanos and Loki

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Also, the BIGGEST piece of evidence that it's part of/powered by the Tesseract.

It was the only thing to shut down the portal, which was in turn powered by the Cube!
Ya, the movie pretty explicitly states that the sceptor is powered by the cube.

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Old 09-07-2012, 01:17 PM   #61
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Default Re: Thanos and Loki

But does that mean Thanos once had the cube? Either that, or the sceptor only powered up once Loki was brought to earth with it. I'm going with the former, which would give Odin and Thanos even more history

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Old 09-07-2012, 01:34 PM   #62
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Or it could be they just both tap the same cosmic energy source.

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Old 09-07-2012, 01:47 PM   #63
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But the cube is an energy source, right? Selvig explained that when Fury told him to pull the plug. "We turn her off. She turns herself back on" or some jazz

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Old 09-07-2012, 02:41 PM   #64
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Default Re: Thanos and Loki

I always looked at it as the scepter is actually a portion of the Tesseract.

Does anyone else think the new Avengers Assemble comics are an idea of what we could see in Avengers 2? Like, AIM steal the scepter as a way to build their own Cosmic Cube, for Thanos, who will use it to find the Infinity Gems?

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Old 09-07-2012, 02:56 PM   #65
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I always looked at it as the scepter is actually a portion of the Tesseract.

Does anyone else think the new Avengers Assemble comics are an idea of what we could see in Avengers 2? Like, AIM steal the scepter as a way to build their own Cosmic Cube, for Thanos, who will use it to find the Infinity Gems?
I like that idea. That would mean Thanos had the cube a long time ago in order to make the sceptor. Odin realizes Thanos is using it to fill in his IG, takes him down and hides the cube on earth (and the partially completed gauntlet in his vault). Cut to the present and Thanos manipulates Odin's adopted son into getting the cube and his IG plan on track. I never read much Marvel, but do Odin and Thanos have any history together in the comics?

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Old 09-07-2012, 02:58 PM   #66
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I think so. But even if they don't they should in the MCU. Like when all the elders (Thor, Odin, Mar-Vell, Warlock, Surfer) hear Thanos are gathering the Gems, their reaction is,

"Oh ****."

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Old 09-07-2012, 09:57 PM   #67
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Default Re: Thanos and Loki

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No, we don't. For all we know it COULD control minds.

Another thing that supports my theory: Loki says he's seen the true power of the Tesseract. Well, the guys he's working for don't have it. But what do they have that contains a part of the Tesseract?

The scepter.
No: they don't.
The last time the sceptre is seen is in the hands of Black Widow as she and the Avengers stand over the fallen Loki.

So odds are very high that *SHIELD* has the sceptre.

Another thing to consider: Dr. Selvig and Hawkeye have also seen the true power of the Tesseract, too. When they're still mind-controlled, Selvig mentions that the Cube has shown him the truth about everything, and even Hawkeye was able to see his "next target" and how to take him out through the Cube....in other words, it allowed him to see the future.

So Selvig and Hawkeye might still have some residual energies at work, for future reference....

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Old 09-08-2012, 02:20 AM   #68
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No, I mean before the events of Avengers. Loki says that on the cliff with Thor.

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Old 09-08-2012, 09:48 AM   #69
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No, I mean before the events of Avengers. Loki says that on the cliff with Thor.
Yeah. But the "conventional wisdom" around this forum is that the Tesseract powered up the sceptre, which was apparently an ordinary sceptre beforehand.

IMHO, the jury's still out on the sceptre itself, though. We have no way of knowing what kind of innate powers the sceptre might or might not have already had before they plugged in the Cube. But knowing Thanos, there's no such thing as an "ordinary" sceptre just laying around his throne, you know....?

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Old 09-08-2012, 10:46 AM   #70
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Well we saw it was powered when The Other gave it to Loki at the beginning.

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Old 09-08-2012, 11:44 AM   #71
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Default Re: Thanos and Loki

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I always looked at it as the scepter is actually a portion of the Tesseract.

Does anyone else think the new Avengers Assemble comics are an idea of what we could see in Avengers 2? Like, AIM steal the scepter as a way to build their own Cosmic Cube, for Thanos, who will use it to find the Infinity Gems?
Haven't read them, but I mentioned stuff similar to that a few months ago when it came to AIM and building a new cube. I like it. Continue weaving that interconnectivity between the franchises.

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Old 09-08-2012, 12:34 PM   #72
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I think the problem with that is there wouldn't really be a villain in it. It would have John Carter syndrome, where there's no clear villain.

Thanos would be in space, The Other would presumably be on Earth running AIM and then give the finished Cube to Thanos.

One of the best things about Avengers was that Loki was the clear villain, and he manipulated each member until they overcame that to fight as a team.

That's why I think Joss Whedon is having an extremely difficult time trying to figure out the plot for Avengers 2. I know I am.

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Old 09-08-2012, 09:24 PM   #73
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Default Re: Thanos and Loki

It doesnt seem like he's having a difficult time. He's got 3 years to set up the dominoes before he knocks em down. That and it sounds like he already has ideas. Saying its gonna be smaller and more personal and all that.

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Old 09-09-2012, 05:35 AM   #74
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Well yeah actually, I doubt he is, because he knows more about the future of the MCU than we do at the moment.

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Old 09-09-2012, 02:14 PM   #75
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oh I am sure he does. He said he already has ideas.

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