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Old 09-15-2012, 02:58 PM   #151
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Default Re: Anthony Mackie in talks to play Falcon

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Which would be the lesser of two evils, the bird telepath or the pimp?
Sam being a pimp would explain how his pimp hand got so strong

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Old 09-15-2012, 04:08 PM   #152
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Default Re: Anthony Mackie in talks to play Falcon

They just need to make his wings as functional and awesome as they did Hawkeye's bow in Avengers and all will be good.

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Old 09-15-2012, 08:55 PM   #153
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Default Re: Anthony Mackie in talks to play Falcon

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First of all, Falcon is not an iconic character, he does not have an iconic power. Some of y'all throw around the word iconic all willy-nilly.

Second of all, he can have a telepathic connection to birds without having a pet falcon that follows him around. And I think the bird wings cover him being named Falcon.
Yeah, no.
He was the (grounded) Falcon for five years before T'Challa ever gave him wings. Redwing is the first and oldest part of his identity; you don't just throw that away because *you* don't like it.

I'm all for Sam having an expanded telepathy extending to all birds; could actually be a useful skill. As for flight, it's obviously a useful skill, but not as your only power. "Hey, look, Cap, I can fly!" "Big ***in' deal there, Snap....so can half of Marvel's Manhattan." Or in MCU terms: so can Thor and Iron Man already (and even Hawkeye, if they'll ever give him his freakin' Skycycle).

Besides, I think there's a very good way to give Sam a falconry backstory in the modern age. Falconry is still a very prominent sport in the Middle East, so it would be easy enough to make Sam a veteran of Iraq or Afghanistan, and say that he acquired Redwing and his falconry skills from a mystical Middle Eastern mentor over there --- a Yinsen type character.

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Old 09-16-2012, 10:48 AM   #154
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Default Re: Anthony Mackie in talks to play Falcon

I think Falcon is lame

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Old 09-16-2012, 10:55 AM   #155
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Default Re: Anthony Mackie in talks to play Falcon

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I think Falcon is lame
Falcon thinks you're lame.

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Old 09-16-2012, 10:59 AM   #156
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Default Re: Anthony Mackie in talks to play Falcon

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I think Falcon is lame
Me too. But I also think Hawkeye is lame, and they made him awesome. That's what I figure will happen with Falcon.

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The people who are whining about potential changes now will love those very same changes two years from now. It's an endless cycle on SHH

The "core" of the character is that's he's Cap's bestie and he flies with big wings attached to his arms. Doubt either of those will change. I'm game with the filmmakers doing just about anything with the character, to be honest
Here here. The character is obscure enough to be almost completely flexible from background to costume. While bird telepathy might set him apart... it's the hardest to explain in the context of the MCU. His wings however, like Hawkeye's bow, leave a lot of room for cool execution from solar panels to razor sharp projectile feathers to energy shielding to whatever. All sorts of cool stuff.

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Old 09-16-2012, 11:00 AM   #157
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Default Re: Anthony Mackie in talks to play Falcon

Falcon is cool.

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Old 09-16-2012, 11:07 AM   #158
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Default Re: Anthony Mackie in talks to play Falcon

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I think Falcon is lame
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Me too. But I also think Hawkeye is lame

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Old 09-16-2012, 02:17 PM   #159
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Default Re: Anthony Mackie in talks to play Falcon

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Me too. But I also think Hawkeye is lame, and they made him awesome. That's what I figure will happen with Falcon.



Here here. The character is obscure enough to be almost completely flexible from background to costume. While bird telepathy might set him apart... it's the hardest to explain in the context of the MCU. His wings however, like Hawkeye's bow, leave a lot of room for cool execution from solar panels to razor sharp projectile feathers to energy shielding to whatever. All sorts of cool stuff.
The telepathy isn't hard to explain in the context of the MCU. Yeah, maybe the full-blown bird telepathy/control that Sam exhibits nowadays, which tend to indicate he's a mutant, but MS can't explore that corridor even if they want to. But a link to Redwing? Here's the way I see it playing out, simple enough:

Sam is a SHIELD agent somewhere in the Middle East. At some point, he is alone and lost in the desert (maybe his chopper crashed, maybe he was ambushed by al-Qaeda or Taliban, whatever), and about to die. Suddenly, there's a falcon standing in the sand beside him, and Sam realizes he must be getting close to water and food --- hey, if the bird is alive, it's eating and drinking something, right? So he follows the falcon as it flies, and the falcon oddly seems to be trying to lead him to safety. And that's what the falcon does --- leads him to an oasis, where he recovers, and finds that the falcon is a trained bird belonging to some mystic sheikh or other. Sheikh befriends Sam, teaches him the ancient art of falconry, Sam and Redwing develop a strong psychic bond, and the sheikh lets him take Redwing back to the States.

As for the wings --- yeah, they look cool and they let him fly. But that's not nearly unique enough to qualify for a superpower, especially if he's trying to put together a resume to join the Avengers. As I said before, there's at least two other fliers already on the team, and both are *better* fliers than Falcon could ever hope to be.

Sam *needs* far more than just the power of flight to sell the character. Just keep it simple --- what's worked for Marvel Studios so far has been to be true to the comic book characters' powers, look and origins. Whiplash is the only MCU character who significantly deviated from his comic-book counterpart, and by all counts (especially by Mickey Rourke, of course), it ruined the character.

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Old 09-16-2012, 02:26 PM   #160
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Default Re: Anthony Mackie in talks to play Falcon

I know in the comics Red Skull gave him the power via the cube, but just say it was a side effect of some SHIELD testing or whatever.

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Old 09-16-2012, 05:46 PM   #161
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Default Re: Anthony Mackie in talks to play Falcon

clawed by a radioactive falcon, sam wilson develops a unique telepathic bond with birds

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Old 09-16-2012, 07:21 PM   #162
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Default Re: Anthony Mackie in talks to play Falcon

I prefer, Sam Wilson, left for dead after an Afghani ambush attempt he's discovered and nursed back to health by a Falcon named Redwing. They build a telepathic bond over this extended period together in a remote Afghan cave.

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Old 09-16-2012, 08:42 PM   #163
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Default Re: Anthony Mackie in talks to play Falcon

This movie is called Captain America: The Winter Soldier. There won't be enough room to give Falcon a backstory for his powers. I assume He'll just be like Black Widow and Hawkeye, a special SHIELD agent.

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Old 09-16-2012, 10:09 PM   #164
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Default Re: Anthony Mackie in talks to play Falcon

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This movie is called Captain America: The Winter Soldier. There won't be enough room to give Falcon a backstory for his powers. I assume He'll just be like Black Widow and Hawkeye, a special SHIELD agent.
How much time do they need to spend on backstory for secondary heroes, anyway? Unless they get into the convoluted Exile Island rigamarole with Red Skull (they won't, since Skully hasn't made his return to Earth yet), or the reformed pimp backstory (unlikely, to avoid cries of racial stereotypes), then the only thing they need to reveal is that he's a SHIELD agent who has a very handy falcon, and a great big pair of wings.

Personally, I'd like to see Falc earn his (literal) wings during the course of the movie. i.e., a special gift from the King of Wakanda. (I always thought that gave Steve and Sam an extra layer to complement their friendship: i.e., both of their iconic tools of the trade were made with Wakandan technology/vibranium).

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Old 09-16-2012, 11:27 PM   #165
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Default Re: Anthony Mackie in talks to play Falcon

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The telepathy isn't hard to explain in the context of the MCU. Yeah, maybe the full-blown bird telepathy/control that Sam exhibits nowadays, which tend to indicate he's a mutant, but MS can't explore that corridor even if they want to. But a link to Redwing? Here's the way I see it playing out, simple enough:

Sam is a SHIELD agent somewhere in the Middle East. At some point, he is alone and lost in the desert (maybe his chopper crashed, maybe he was ambushed by al-Qaeda or Taliban, whatever), and about to die. Suddenly, there's a falcon standing in the sand beside him, and Sam realizes he must be getting close to water and food --- hey, if the bird is alive, it's eating and drinking something, right? So he follows the falcon as it flies, and the falcon oddly seems to be trying to lead him to safety. And that's what the falcon does --- leads him to an oasis, where he recovers, and finds that the falcon is a trained bird belonging to some mystic sheikh or other. Sheikh befriends Sam, teaches him the ancient art of falconry, Sam and Redwing develop a strong psychic bond, and the sheikh lets him take Redwing back to the States.

As for the wings --- yeah, they look cool and they let him fly. But that's not nearly unique enough to qualify for a superpower, especially if he's trying to put together a resume to join the Avengers. As I said before, there's at least two other fliers already on the team, and both are *better* fliers than Falcon could ever hope to be.

Sam *needs* far more than just the power of flight to sell the character. Just keep it simple --- what's worked for Marvel Studios so far has been to be true to the comic book characters' powers, look and origins. Whiplash is the only MCU character who significantly deviated from his comic-book counterpart, and by all counts (especially by Mickey Rourke, of course), it ruined the character.
Mickey Rourke explicitly explained that cutting his performance ruined the character, not the difference from comics, and, iirc, he was the only one who complained about Whiplash. And while, if screen time allows and it plays into Captain America's story, Sam could get a backstory with Redwing, there's no amount of birds that will make him of any value to the Avengers. Consider Hawkeye: there are other character that can shoot much more powerfully than Hawkeye, but because they do other things, and Hawkeye specializes, he is still valuable to the team. Same exact thing with Falcon when it comes to flying and razor sharp wings and such. He's every bit as qualified as Hawkeye, and will be deveoped similarly in order to be Avengers-level.

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Old 09-17-2012, 12:47 AM   #166
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Default Re: Anthony Mackie in talks to play Falcon

What is Ultimate Falcon's bio like....god I hate Ultimates...

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Old 09-17-2012, 04:07 AM   #167
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Default Re: Anthony Mackie in talks to play Falcon

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What is Ultimate Falcon's bio like....god I hate Ultimates...
I hate the Ultimates too, but there are a couple of good ideas, and Ultimate Falcon is one.

He's an ex-soldier who served under Fury, who later quit to pursue scientific research. Fury keeps him on the payroll, but he isn't an active agent. Fury calls him in every once in a while, whenever he needs a sober ass-kicking scientist.

He has the wings, which he made himself, and submachine guns.

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Old 09-17-2012, 04:15 AM   #168
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Default Re: Anthony Mackie in talks to play Falcon

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How much time do they need to spend on backstory for secondary heroes, anyway? Unless they get into the convoluted Exile Island rigamarole with Red Skull (they won't, since Skully hasn't made his return to Earth yet), or the reformed pimp backstory (unlikely, to avoid cries of racial stereotypes), then the only thing they need to reveal is that he's a SHIELD agent who has a very handy falcon, and a great big pair of wings.

Personally, I'd like to see Falc earn his (literal) wings during the course of the movie. i.e., a special gift from the King of Wakanda. (I always thought that gave Steve and Sam an extra layer to complement their friendship: i.e., both of their iconic tools of the trade were made with Wakandan technology/vibranium).
It would be pretty out of left field, though.

The movie is going to be about Winter Soldier. It's been touted as a political thriller, there's going to be remnants of the Cold War, rogue KGB types, maybe the Black Widow, espionage and intrigue.... And then there's a guy who got his powers of bird-whispering from a mystic.

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Old 09-17-2012, 07:28 AM   #169
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Default Re: Anthony Mackie in talks to play Falcon

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It would be pretty out of left field, though.

The movie is going to be about Winter Soldier. It's been touted as a political thriller, there's going to be remnants of the Cold War, rogue KGB types, maybe the Black Widow, espionage and intrigue.... And then there's a guy who got his powers of bird-whispering from a mystic.
He fits in pretty good with the WWII-era chemically-enhanced superman who spent the last seventy years frozen and unaging inside an iceberg.

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Old 09-17-2012, 07:59 AM   #170
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Default Re: Anthony Mackie in talks to play Falcon

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This movie is called Captain America: The Winter Soldier. There won't be enough room to give Falcon a backstory for his powers. I assume He'll just be like Black Widow and Hawkeye, a special SHIELD agent.
lol Our suggestions were jokes. At least mine was.

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Old 09-17-2012, 08:49 AM   #171
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He fits in pretty good with the WWII-era chemically-enhanced superman who spent the last seventy years frozen and unaging inside an iceberg.
It isn't a question of realism. It is a question of how much fantastic elements are directly the focus of the plot.

In CATFA, you had a serum that could turn one into a super-soldier, and a cosmic cube, but both were very prominent points of the story.

If mysticism is a big part of the plot of CATWS, then sure. But if its just something that is brough up in relation to Falcon's powers withot having any bearing on anything else, that's just weird.

It'd be as if you took CATFA and kept it the same, only uoi made Peggy a werewolf.

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Old 09-17-2012, 09:09 AM   #172
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Default Re: Anthony Mackie in talks to play Falcon

...skip the mid-70s retcon of the pimp/"racketeer" career.. scientist, or social worker, work fine..

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Old 09-17-2012, 09:30 AM   #173
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Default Re: Anthony Mackie in talks to play Falcon

Just not the horrid grey costume!

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Old 09-17-2012, 09:39 AM   #174
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Default Re: Anthony Mackie in talks to play Falcon

Which grey costume?

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Old 09-17-2012, 10:38 AM   #175
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Default Re: Anthony Mackie in talks to play Falcon

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Just not the horrid grey costume!
This one?


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