Which female character shared a deeper connection w/ Bruce?

[rickfox]

there are at least five charges against Selina according to her profile showed in TDKR---2 counts of shoplifting,2 counts of resisting arrest,1 count of drunk and disorderly--

[Nevincer]

Where's that screenshot from? If it's from a bootleg you should probably take it down or have they started releasing HD clips of the film?

[The Batman]

Originally Posted by Excelsior.

I think Bruce, Rachel, and appeal to different parts of his struggle and being, just as his villains reflect specific parts of his Batman persona. Rachel connected to a Bruce who was the heirloom of the Wayne foundation, the man that he could've been had it not been vengeance altering their paths. Miranda connected to the orphan who saw his world ripped apart and the drive to fix it in any way he can. Selina appealed to his darker, adventurous side, the side that craved the dangers of the night even as he preached a normal slate.

Alas, two of these (Rachel and Miranda) are done in an unsatisfying fashion and cemented the trend of being the worst aspect of these films.

Originally Posted by Nevincer

Selina is one of the characters that suffered imo because of the rushed pacing. I agree with those that don't think her pairing at the end felt very natural, saying that she's a better candidate than Rachel would have been as she wasn't able to handle Bruce's life as Batman and chose Dent. If we're going strictly by the title of the thread though, I'd say that in spite of my loathing of the character, Bruce had a deeper connection with Rachel without a doubt. Bruce's whole idealism, sense of justice and vision of a safer city is exactly the same as hers whereas Selina is a grey character. His romance with Selina doesn't really work so much based on his "deep" connection with her, more like "opposites attract" is how I always viewed it.

QFT.

I think some are forgetting, for the sake of their biases, that Bruce has different sides to his personality. He's not just a "broken person who dresses up in a mask". He's also an idealistic do gooder, which he inherited from his parents. Not only is Rachel a link to his past, but she herself has that idealism and she helped shape the idealism in Bruce.

[BatLobsterRises]

Originally Posted by Nevincer

This is why I'll never fully understand how Selina "settled down" with Bruce. If anything as a love interest she's more suited to a "Batman Continues"-esque ending. Don't get me wrong the scene itself was nice and I would have hated for Bruce to be Batman forever but I don't think her character really works with that kind of ending as Catwoman is supposed to represent the side of Bruce that wants to be Batman imo.

It's an example of how with TDKR it felt to me like they were just throwing in a lot of ideas, even if some were ultimately incompatible with one another which makes the film as a whole sum feel awkward to me.

I actually thought giving Bruce someone to retire with kind of helped me buy the ending more. If Bruce were to just retire and live happily ever after with Rachel (had she survived), that would be an entirely unsatisfying ending to Bruce's journey. Yet, with Selina I can accept it because you have two people trying together to leave behind their former lives and start anew. They can both share the weight of their pasts together while trying to build a new future.

It's the ending we'll never get in the comics, but one that always seemed like a best case scenario for the two of them.

[BlueLightning]

There is a lot of insightful dialogue in this thread, it is nice to read a lot of the arguments and analysis. It's kind of a testament for these films. I'd like too add a thing I didn't mentioned before. I loved the Batman - Catwoman team up scene. It showed how seamless they worked together. It was a fun, fast paced sequence filled with little details.

[kthevs]

Originally Posted by BlueLightning

There is a lot of insightful dialogue in this thread, it is nice to read a lot of the arguments and analysis. It's kind of a testament for these films. I'd like too add a thing I didn't mentioned before. I loved the Batman - Catwoman team up scene. It showed how seamless they worked together. It was a fun, fast paced sequence filled with little details.

Exactly. Even when they're not saying anything to each other, their chemistry is great. Just watching them walk side by side gave me chills.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by kthevs

Just watching them walk side by side gave me chills.

That's because it was like watching the comic book pages. It worked. The problem with Rachel, apart from being badly written, was she wasn't a comic book character. As a Batman fan I never really appreciated that Nolan chose her, some character he made up as the main love interest for two movies when Batman has so many love interests in the comics.

Then there's Talia, who in TDKR had none of the qualities that made Talia a good character or a good love interest in the comics.

[BatLobsterRises]

I don't think it's inherently bad that they used a made up love interest. In fact, arguably one of the greatest Batman movies ever made (MOTP) used a made up love interest and made up villain in one fell swoop.

I think the problem with Rachel lies with the casting unfortunately. But it is what it is. The character served her purpose in the plot. I don't see how she was badly written, I just think the problem with her was they never were able to fully convince us that she was worthy of the affections of both Bruce Wayne and Harvey Dent. Unfortunately that does come down to looks and casting, and chemistry too. Character-wise it was there though, as she was noble and a no BS moral crusader like the two of them.

I think given that the studio mandated they have a love interest in the first film when they weren't originally planning on it, they made the most out of it. By making Rachel a childhood friend, you lose that awkward obligatory "oh hai!" moment that would have resulted in trying to cram in a pure love interest that Bruce meets midway through the film. That just wouldn't have gelled with him being so focused on putting everything together for his mission.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises

I don't think it's inherently bad that they used a made up love interest. In fact, arguably one of the greatest Batman movies ever made (MOTP) used a made up love interest and made up villain in one fell swoop.

True, but MOTP was a spin off from BTAS which had already done infamous love interests like Selina and Talia. Andrea was just the latest one, albeit a very good one.

I think the problem with Rachel lies with the casting unfortunately.

In the case of Katie Holmes that was definitely a major downside.

But it is what it is. The character served her purpose in the plot. I don't see how she was badly written, I just think the problem with her was they never were able to fully convince us that she was worthy of the affections of both Bruce Wayne and Harvey Dent. Unfortunately that does come down to looks and casting, and chemistry too. Character-wise it was there though, as she was noble and a no BS moral crusader like the two of them.

Badly written as in all through Begins there's no hint of a romantic connection between Bruce and Rachel. They act like childhood friends. Bruce never gives the impression he has romantic feelings for her and vice versa with Rachel. They just seem like friends who care about each other. Then at the end of Begins Rachel blurts out of the blue that Bruce is the man she loves. It's like where did that come from?

TDK is left to continue that established character dynamic. At least in TDK they had Rachel move onto Harvey, and it was really Bruce who was clinging to the idea he and Rachel could still be together.

I think given that the studio mandated they have a love interest in the first film when they weren't originally planning on it, they made the most out of it. By making Rachel a childhood friend, you lose that awkward obligatory "oh hai!" moment that would have resulted in trying to cram in a pure love interest that Bruce meets midway through the film. That just wouldn't have gelled with him being so focused on putting everything together for his mission.

A well written script can always accommodate a love interest organically. It's not a hard task to accomplish. You're looking at the Begins script the way it's written which has no romantic undertones between Bruce and Rachel until the end, where as I said it comes out of nowhere.

Then in TDK it's obvious Bruce wants Rachel as Alfred makes remarks like "Are you interested in his character or his social circle?" when he sees Bruce watching Harvey with Rachel. The way he eyes up Rachel and Dent holding hands at the dinner table etc.

TDK felt like it had a love interest throughout it's story. Begins never did.

[BatLobsterRises]

Originally Posted by The Joker

A well written script can always accommodate a love interest organically. It's not a hard task to accomplish. You're looking at the Begins script the way it's written which has no romantic undertones between Bruce and Rachel until the end, where as I said it comes out of nowhere.

Then in TDK it's obvious Bruce wants Rachel as Alfred makes remarks like "Are you interested in his character or his social circle?" when he sees Bruce watching Harvey with Rachel. The way he eyes up Rachel and Dent holding hands at the dinner table etc.

TDK felt like it had a love interest throughout it's story. Begins never did.

Well, I'm saying I don't think Nolan or Goyer particularly wanted to have a love interest in the version of Batman Begins they originally envisioned, in which Rachel's role would have been Harvey. It's well-known that the studio mandated a love interest, which really means they wanted a popular actress to put on the marquee to broaden the audience.

You're right though, they tried to have their cake and eat it too by making her a tow the line between friend and love interest, and her declaration of love did seem to come out of nowhere at the end. They kind of side stepped having to deal with the romance in any way that took up screen time by having it be more of an implied love. To be fair though, it was playing a bit on the trope of guys and girls never being able to stay "just friends" and there always being more under the surface. This obviously isn't 100% true in life, but it often is.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not the biggest fan of Rachel by any stretch. I'm a Bruce/Selina shipper all the way and always have been.

[J0k3r]

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises

I actually thought giving Bruce someone to retire with kind of helped me buy the ending more. If Bruce were to just retire and live happily ever after with Rachel (had she survived), that would be an entirely unsatisfying ending to Bruce's journey. Yet, with Selina I can accept it because you have two people trying together to leave behind their former lives and start anew. They can both share the weight of their pasts together while trying to build a new future.

It's the ending we'll never get in the comics, but one that always seemed like a best case scenario for the two of them.

I think if Bruce ended with Rachel would be contradictory with she says on Begins to him, about "the man she loved never came back". And Rachel was convicted of her ideas as Bruce. I bought Bruce ending with Selina because despite the comics, where they can't be together because of activities, in Rises, both want to leave their lifes behind. Bruce talks about that since TDK. To me, makes complete sense in a universe where Bruce Wayne doesn't want to be (and can't be) Batman "forever" that Selina wants the same thing and both try to move on together after that.

And about the topic, I can't decide between Rachel and Selina. I think each one fits in some moment: Rachel, during all the years while Bruce believed he could return to be what he was before his parents death. He tries to do that until Rises, with the reactor and even returning to live in the mansion. That's why he still mourning Rachel, because he believed if she was alive they could be there. Selina fits when Bruce became to see the truth about Rachel and about his life. He'll never be like was before because of the consequences of the years as Batman in many ways. And being with someone else who needs to deal with your past and the consequences is a way to deal better too.

[J0k3r]

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises

Well, I'm saying I don't think Nolan or Goyer particularly wanted to have a love interest in the version of Batman Begins they originally envisioned, in which Rachel's role would have been Harvey. It's well-known that the studio mandated a love interest, which really means they wanted a popular actress to put on the marquee to broaden the audience.

You're right though, they tried to have their cake and eat it too by making her a tow the line between friend and love interest, and her declaration of love did seem to come out of nowhere at the end. They kind of side stepped having to deal with the romance in any way that took up screen time by having it be more of an implied love. To be fair though, it was playing a bit on the trope of guys and girls never being able to stay "just friends" and there always being more under the surface. This obviously isn't 100% true in life, but it often is.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not the biggest fan of Rachel by any stretch. I'm a Bruce/Selina shipper all the way and always have been.

I agree. I always tought their last scene in Begins akward, as the scene in Bruce's penthouse in TDK, but there is another situation: Rachel already moved on, I think was on purpose.

[rickfox]

Bruce to Rachel: Rachel, all of...all this..It's.. It’s not me. it's...Inside, I am…I am more.

Bruce to Selina: There’s more to you than that/I still think there’s more to you

[Ecuanime]

As much as I would like to say Rachel, being that he grew up with her and seen her as a way to be a normal person, but then to be left devastated after her death in TDKR. The ideal relationship looks good on paper, but did not work for me on screen in BB and TKR. In BB, we never really know exactly why Bruce is in love with Rachel. We know that she was part of his childhood and also she convinces him that killing won't solve his problems. But there's no intimacy in the film between the two.


In TKR, we have a new actress playing the role, in which she did well. But again, no real intimacy. We don't see what Bruce sees in her, my thoughts would be she, other than Alfred, is only person that knows him from childhood, when his life was normal, innocent and not vengeful. But as for a deep connection between her and Bruce, nothing. On top of that, the audience really don't care for her. What really illustrates this is the fact that in the film, she gets blown away right in front of us--which comes as a complete shock and defies superhero films because the damsel usually doesn't die--but her death soon becomes an afterthought as we are absorbed into what Joker does next and the emergence of Two Face. We really don't know--and forget--how much her death affected Bruce until TDKR.


So Selina does have the deepest connection with Bruce, AND IT SHOWS ON SCREEN. The charity ball scene was key. They're fighting thugs together. They are both looking for an escape, a clean slate. They save each other"s life. The passionate kiss at the end. Another funny thing is that those around them seen something in them two. Alfred makes a remark after finding out Selina stole the pearl necklace and sees that Bruce is more amazed than upset (which is funny how posters here think that Alfred does not know of their relationship). Fox says "Like your girlfriend" . The cafe scene at the end was a nice visual touch also, especially with Selena wearing the pearls. Throughout the movie, Bruce sees something in her, and believes in her to make the right decisions.


I could write more, but I'll stop there...just my 2 cents

[J0k3r]

Originally Posted by Ecuanime

As much as I would like to say Rachel, being that he grew up with her and seen her as a way to be a normal person, but then to be left devastated after her death in TDKR. The ideal relationship looks good on paper, but did not work for me on screen in BB and TKR. In BB, we never really know exactly why Bruce is in love with Rachel. We know that she was part of his childhood and also she convinces him that killing won't solve his problems. But there's no intimacy in the film between the two.


In TKR, we have a new actress playing the role, in which she did well. But again, no real intimacy. We don't see what Bruce sees in her, my thoughts would be she, other than Alfred, is only person that knows him from childhood, when his life was normal, innocent and not vengeful. But as for a deep connection between her and Bruce, nothing. On top of that, the audience really don't care for her. What really illustrates this is the fact that in the film, she gets blown away right in front of us--which comes as a complete shock and defies superhero films because the damsel usually doesn't die--but her death soon becomes an afterthought as we are absorbed into what Joker does next and the emergence of Two Face. We really don't know--and forget--how much her death affected Bruce until TDKR.

Today I think the impression that doesn't worked, manly in TDK, was on purpose. First, because Rachel already moved on, and because I think Bruce was more "in love" of what Rachel represented than her as a human being. Was almost an obsession. He saw she was with Harvey, maybe even living with him and was like nothing to him.

[Panthro]

Originally Posted by J0k3r

I think if Bruce ended with Rachel would be contradictory with she says on Begins to him, about "the man she loved never came back". And Rachel was convicted of her ideas as Bruce. I bought Bruce ending with Selina because despite the comics, where they can't be together because of activities, in Rises, both want to leave their lifes behind. Bruce talks about that since TDK. To me, makes complete sense in a universe where Bruce Wayne doesn't want to be (and can't be) Batman "forever" that Selina wants the same thing and both try to move on together after that.

And about the topic, I can't decide between Rachel and Selina. I think each one fits in some moment: Rachel, during all the years while Bruce believed he could return to be what he was before his parents death. He tries to do that until Rises, with the reactor and even returning to live in the mansion. That's why he still mourning Rachel, because he believed if she was alive they could be there. Selina fits when Bruce became to see the truth about Rachel and about his life. He'll never be like was before because of the consequences of the years as Batman in many ways. And being with someone else who needs to deal with your past and the consequences is a way to deal better too.

Yeah I think the saga ending with Bruce and Rachel together (had she survived) would have represented regression rather than progression. In the end Rachel did not represent love, she represented a fixation Bruce had with his past, with a lost childhood innocence that was simply never going to come back no matter how much he wanted it to. Or, as you said, he was infatuated with the ideas & ideals Rachel represented rather than loving her for the person she was. I believe Dent loved Rachel for who she was, and I think it was pretty obvious in the end that Rachel loved Dent and not Bruce because in her own heart Rachel had already moved on while Bruce hadn't.

Bruce being with Selina at the end better demonstrates that he's finally moved on and is in a better place mentally and emotionally than he had been in years and ever would have been if he'd ended up with Rachel.

[The Batman]

Originally Posted by kthevs

You can state your opinion all you want, but that's not what was shown on screen.

I just wanted to address this, as the rest of your post was your usual shipping. I know I can state my opinion, and I dont need your permission. Personally, I think Rachel understood Bruce in ways Selina didn't, and Selina had more surface things in common with Bruce then Selina did. However, this dosent mean Selina was more suitable than Rachel on paper, IMO. Selina was a good fit for Bruce given the circumstances.

[mao]

Lol. It's definitely not Miranda. He got over that delusion real quick. He kind of just stood there stupefied at how someone could die so badly on screen.

[kthevs]

Originally Posted by The Batman

I just wanted to address this, as the rest of your post was your usual shipping. I know I can state my opinion, and I dont need your permission. Personally, I think Rachel understood Bruce in ways Selina didn't, and Selina had more surface things in common with Bruce then Selina did. However, this dosent mean Selina was more suitable than Rachel on paper, IMO. Selina was a good fit for Bruce given the circumstances.

It's not shipping. It's facts. And as I said, you can state your opinion all you want, that's your right. I'm saying that's not what was shown on screen. Rachel and Bruce had chemistry in BB. Then in TDK, they had none at all. Throughout that entire movie, Rachel came across as just being annoyed by Bruce.

She was the usual, damsel in distress character. Bottom line is that Selina is the most iconic of all of Bruce's love interests and by far the most famous amongst the masses. Rachel is a character that Goyer made up out of thin air when the studio told him and Nolan to add a token love interest.

You don't even have to take my word for it. Read the production notes. Selina is the yin to his yang. They're meant to come across as kindred spirits. And as I said before, how often does someone who dresses up in black and sneaks out at night meet someone else who does the exact same thing.

Bruce and Rachel had a connection, sure, but it was the type of connection where one person will never fully able to understand the other's mental scars. Not to mention that Bruce and Rachel seemed to have no kinetic energy whatsoever, as opposed to Bruce and Selina, who, from their very first scene together, seem to already have the energy about them (which also has to do with the choice of actors). The "Oops" moment always gets applause from whatever audience I'm watching the film with.

This quote from another poster says it well - Yeah I think the saga ending with Bruce and Rachel together (had she survived) would have represented regression rather than progression. In the end Rachel did not represent love, she represented a fixation Bruce had with his past, with a lost childhood innocence that was simply never going to come back no matter how much he wanted it to. Or, as you said, he was infatuated with the ideas & ideals Rachel represented rather than loving her for the person she was. I believe Dent loved Rachel for who she was, and I think it was pretty obvious in the end that Rachel loved Dent and not Bruce because in her own heart Rachel had already moved on while Bruce hadn't.

Bruce being with Selina at the end better demonstrates that he's finally moved on and is in a better place mentally and emotionally than he had been in years and ever would have been if he'd ended up with Rachel.

Here's another post from someone else on this page. Great points brought up here - As much as I would like to say Rachel, being that he grew up with her and seen her as a way to be a normal person, but then to be left devastated after her death in TDKR. The ideal relationship looks good on paper, but did not work for me on screen in BB and TKR. In BB, we never really know exactly why Bruce is in love with Rachel. We know that she was part of his childhood and also she convinces him that killing won't solve his problems. But there's no intimacy in the film between the two.


In TKR, we have a new actress playing the role, in which she did well. But again, no real intimacy. We don't see what Bruce sees in her, my thoughts would be she, other than Alfred, is only person that knows him from childhood, when his life was normal, innocent and not vengeful. But as for a deep connection between her and Bruce, nothing. On top of that, the audience really don't care for her. What really illustrates this is the fact that in the film, she gets blown away right in front of us--which comes as a complete shock and defies superhero films because the damsel usually doesn't die--but her death soon becomes an afterthought as we are absorbed into what Joker does next and the emergence of Two Face. We really don't know--and forget--how much her death affected Bruce until TDKR.


So Selina does have the deepest connection with Bruce, AND IT SHOWS ON SCREEN. The charity ball scene was key. They're fighting thugs together. They are both looking for an escape, a clean slate. They save each other"s life. The passionate kiss at the end. Another funny thing is that those around them seen something in them two. Alfred makes a remark after finding out Selina stole the pearl necklace and sees that Bruce is more amazed than upset (which is funny how posters here think that Alfred does not know of their relationship). Fox says "Like your girlfriend" . The cafe scene at the end was a nice visual touch also, especially with Selena wearing the pearls. Throughout the movie, Bruce sees something in her, and believes in her to make the right decisions.


I could write more, but I'll stop there...just my 2 cents

[rickfox]

Rachel --Bruce-Selina

what if

---------------------

....Don't you understand? You're the one thing he thinks is holding me back from going back to that life – the one factor that was different. He'll kill you the first chance he gets just to draw me out and start this all over again, to put me back in the part he wants me to play in this twisted evil game of his," he shouted. Selina wasn't cowed. She reared up on her heels and leveled her face eyelevel with him.

"I can handle myself, Bruce, and if you'd have let me shoot him properly in the ****ing head we'd have been out of this miserable city a week ago. If you'd just killed him nine years ago, we would be back home and away from all this. If you'd killed him nine years ago, there wouldn't be a grave to put me next to if he does get around to putting me in the ground next to Rachel Dawes."

That stung. His face must've said as much, but she steeled her face further into a mask of resolve.

"I've lived with the consequences of my decisions since that day. Do you want me to rewind time and redo what I've done? I don't kill. You know the reasons better than anyone why I stick to that principle," he gritted out.

"I do, and I respect that. But this is a rinse and repeat situation. If Harvey Dent went off the deep end after he took out Rachel Dawes, then think of all the fun he could have by making you choose again. Me or Gotham, Bruce? What's it going to be?"

"Step off, Selina – you're angry, and I understand that-"

"You haven't a single idea of how this feels, Bruce. Waiting up here because you think I'm inadequate to handle myself out there. Waiting for him to knock me off just to get to you – this is just dragging out the inevitable. We need to go down there and fight for what we're worth," she pleaded. It was miles beyond what she would've done a year ago. A year ago Selina would have up and left or taken the issue into her own hands with or without his consent.

"You're the one thing more valuable than anything in this world to me, Selina. Look at me."

She wrenched her head around, and tears of frustration were starting to brim in her eyes. Bruce caught her chin and forced her eyes to meet his.

"I love you. Now, and always." At that admission from him, a tear rolled down her cheek.

"I can't bury you. And I can't let you sink down to his level. You killed Bane because there was no other option. Now we have a chance to let Blake rise up and show that someone other than the Batman has the conviction to uphold what that symbol stood for. You need to sit tight and let this work out, and stay safe for my sake. Do you hear me?" he said in a shaking voice, his hands hard around her shoulders as he clasped her to him. Selina shuddered.

"I'm not Rachel, Bruce. Stop filling in the gap by thinking I'm the civilian that can't fight that sort of scum. Stop holding me to her standard."

"You're not Rachel, alright? I'm surprised you're even letting the thought of her get under your skin. All the women in my life can't hold a candle to you because you're the one and only that could truly understand every aspect of me and keep a sane mind. Every facet," he muttered against her brow, the skin warm and smooth. "And in the end, the only one I could understand."

"I think of her because she touched you on some level I could never reach. Childhood sweethearts and enchanting, alluring career women – I can't compete with memories," she said.
"Rachel's love for me was purely platonic," he tried to reason with her, but her logic found the loophole.

"And what did you feel for her?"

He halted. That, he couldn't lie about. He had loved Rachel all those years until he met Selina. Or at least the memory of her. An illusion Alfred hadn't shattered until much later. Selina picked up on his hesitation and wrenched herself away from him to slam her way into the bathroom. The sound of the shower came hissing on, and Bruce slumped.

Then a little seedling of conviction planted itself in his mind, and he picked himself off the couch and slammed in after her.

His wife, the former Cat burglar was curled up naked in a corner of the shower, hugging her knees to her chest and letting the hot water scour her back a burning red.

Bruce yanked open the glass door and stepped onto the tile, the water soaking through his suit as he picked her up and set her against the wall at eyelevel. Her feet rose a few inches off the floor, and her toes were barely brushing it as he pinned her shoulders.

"You won't say the words because you're too damned frightened of losing me – I don't love a dead woman, I don't love the idea of some old flame. You brought me out of my own pit, Selina. You snuck into my life and made me start living," he shouted into her face. Water was dripping down her cheeks, and for a moment he couldn't distinguish tears and the hot droplets.

One day they'd be able to have that seamless communication and unspoken language. For now, it was a clash of miscommunication and frustration.

"I do love you, Bruce….I ..love you so much" Selina said. And the mask slipped, her face crumpling as if she'd just admitted a horrible lie. But it wasn't a lie – it was a truth that hurt her too much to admit. He leaned in to swallow her sobs with his mouth,......


by Yours Hopefully

[The Batman]

Originally Posted by kthevs

I could write more, but I'll stop there...just my 2 cents

Oh, I didnt bother to read your giant wall of text to begin with, as its probably your usual argument that I dont care for or agree with. All you're really doing is twisting facts to support your shipper fantasies. *Shrugs*

[Excelsior.]

You're looking at the Begins script the way it's written which has no romantic undertones between Bruce and Rachel until the end, where as I said it comes out of nowhere.

Not only does it come out of nowhere unnaturally, it's shot amd edited the EXACT SAME WAY as Pete's kiss with Mary Jane at the end of SP1. It bothers the heck out me.

[kthevs]

Originally Posted by The Batman

Oh, I didnt bother to read your giant wall of text to begin with, as its probably your usual argument that I dont care for or agree with. All you're really doing is twisting facts to support your shipper fantasies. *Shrugs*

If you had read it, you would see that I posted quotes from other posters. I am not twisting. I am providing facts. I am providing quotes from the actual production notes that many of us on here read.

Shipper fantasies? Okay, this is just trolling on your part. I didn't write the movie or direct. It's not the fault of anyone here that you're bitter about Bruce and Selina ending up together in the movie. I provided valid claims and facts from the films. You didn't even bother to attemtp to refute any of it... and that's because you can't.

it's not just me. The vast majority of the posts on here match what I've been saying.

You're still hoping mad about what the Nolan Bros decided to do with the romance in this movie, so now you're venting and trying to twist things to support your desire for Bruce and Rachel to have been more than what they were. Read some of te other posts on this page. The Bruce/Rachel thing is destroyed. Man, those pearls being around Selina neck at the end must have really pissed you off. No need to take it out on others. Write the Nolan Bros an angry letter if it makes you feel better.

Oh, and the two cents comment was part of something I quoted from another poster. I didn't say that. I merely cpied and pasted his words at the end as part of the quote. Pay attention next time.

[iceman77]

Originally Posted by The Batman

Oh, I didnt bother to read your giant wall of text to begin with, as its probably your usual argument that I dont care for or agree with. All you're really doing is twisting facts to support your shipper fantasies. *Shrugs*

Having read this entire thread, the only person i see twisting facts to support their shipper fantases is you. Everyone else is in agreement about the BruceXSelina stuff. We get it right in the movie. It's not a fantasy, because it actually happens. BruceXRachel never happens and wouldn't have happened even if she was alive. She chose Dent and said in the letter that she could only be there as his FRIEND. He was friendzoned. The end. Rachel saw how wrong she was for Bruce. He loved the idea of her more than he loved the actual person.

All the stuff we get in the movie was mentioned by several posters. The "yin/Yang" was mentoned as well. Rather than create counter arguments to supprt your viewpoint on things, all you did was go, "But, but, but... i don't like Bruce and Selina being together so I'm going to pretend it never happened."

You can write fanfics about Bruce ending up with Talia or Rachel, but that doesn't change what we got in the movie. It's obvious that the Nolan brothers themselves are fans of Bruce and Selina being together. The chemistry between them was great (as opposed to the chemistry between Bruce and Rachel, which was nonexistent). And Bruce giving Selina his mother's necklace-- man, that was a jaw dropper. I never thought I'd see the day where Christopher Nolan included such huge romantic symbolism in one of his films.

Perfectly handled by the Nolan brothers, and most of us loved it.

[C. Lee]

Originally Posted by iceman77

Having read this entire thread, the only person i see twisting facts to support their shipper fantases is you. Everyone else is in agreement about the BruceXSelina stuff. We get it right in the movie. It's not a fantasy, because it actually happens. BruceXRachel never happens and wouldn't have happened even if she was alive. She chose Dent and said in the letter that she could only be there as his FRIEND. He was friendzoned. The end. Rachel saw how wrong she was for Bruce. He loved the idea of her more than he loved the actual person.

All the stuff we get in the movie was mentioned by several posters. The "yin/Yang" was mentoned as well. Rather than create counter arguments to supprt your viewpoint on things, all you did was go, "But, but, but... i don't like Bruce and Selina being together so I'm going to pretend it never happened."

You can write fanfics about Bruce ending up with Talia or Rachel, but that doesn't change what we got in the movie. It's obvious that the Nolan brothers themselves are fans of Bruce and Selina being together. The chemistry between them was great (as opposed to the chemistry between Bruce and Rachel, which was nonexistent). And Bruce giving Selina his mother's necklace-- man, that was a jaw dropper. I never thought I'd see the day where Christopher Nolan included such huge romantic symbolism in one of his films.

Perfectly handled by the Nolan brothers, and most of us loved it.

Creating a new name to reinforce the arguments of your original name is trolling. This name is now permabanned......do it again and your original name will be banned as well.