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View Poll Results: Henry Cavill As Superman
Love It 145 64.73%
Hate It 3 1.34%
I'll Deal With It 20 8.93%
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Old 09-27-2012, 02:18 PM   #101
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman: - Part 10

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Originally Posted by Project862006 View Post
well jor el's line is directing taken from all star superman so if you have a problem with it's biblical references well it is in the comics lol
I do not like All-Star because of the preachiness.

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Originally Posted by Super Kal View Post
yes, i understand that, however they dont have to lay it on Superman so darn thick all the time...
Exactly...just tone it down to a low level. Don't beat the audience over the head with it.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.

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Old 09-27-2012, 02:57 PM   #102
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman: - Part 10

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That is true, Showey.

I think it's okay to make him like a god, but they go over board when they go all out with the persecution like in SR or make Jor-El's motivation to save his son from a dying planet more then it actually should be.

I'm hoping the speech used from All Star was just for the teaser and is not a part of the film.
Yep. The whole "You will lead the people of Earth into the light, Kal-El" makes no sense coming from Jor-El. He knows nothing about his son's personality; Kal-El could just as easily grow up to be a tyrant as Earth's savior. His motivation for sending his son to Earth should be to save him, and that's all, just like the story of Moses.

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But Moses is part of the Messiah archetype as is Jesus. I see Superman falling in that category and able to have traits of both regardless of the religion of his creators. To me, it simply gives him a more broader fan base.
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Since Moses and Jesus overlap so much, what kind of Moses elements would you like to see? The parting of a Red Sea allegory? The New Krypton run in the comics has a some Moses elements in it -- the way he is trying to lead his people to peace. That element could possibly be present in MOS. Maybe he is trying to foster a relationship between Zod and Faora with humans.
The only aspect of Moses's life that I want to be a direct influence on Superman is his being sent away by a parent at birth. Everything else about Superman's story should be as unique as possible with the occasional inevitable overlap. For example, Superman will save Earth from Zod just like Moses saved the Hebrews from Pharaoh, but all heroes have to save someone eventually so that link was always going to be there.

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Old 09-27-2012, 03:12 PM   #103
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman: - Part 10

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Yep. The whole "You will lead the people of Earth into the light, Kal-El" makes no sense coming from Jor-El. He knows nothing about his son's personality; Kal-El could just as easily grow up to be a tyrant as Earth's savior. His motivation for sending his son to Earth should be to save him, and that's all, just like the story of Moses.
We don't necessarily know if he tells him that before he sends him off.

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The only aspect of Moses's life that I want to be a direct influence on Superman is his being sent away by a parent at birth. Everything else about Superman's story should be as unique as possible with the occasional inevitable overlap. For example, Superman will save Earth from Zod just like Moses saved the Hebrews from Pharaoh, but all heroes have to save someone eventually so that link was always going to be there.
Fair enough. Seeing as this is an origin film, we should be getting the send off scene much like S:TM had.

Do you want to see the Moses allegory in this film or do you want to see it throughout the series? Sequels won't have the luxury of having Kal-El being sent away again.

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Old 09-27-2012, 03:20 PM   #104
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman: - Part 10

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We don't necessarily know if he tells him that before he sends him off.
It's not a speech that makes sense regardless of when it's given. He dies shorty after Kal-El is sent away. There's no reason for him to assume that his son is going to turn into a shining example of goodness. Compare his speech to Jonathan's and the latter'sis so much more plausible.

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Fair enough. Seeing as this is an origin film, we should be getting the send off scene much like S:TM had.

Do you want to see the Moses allegory in this film or do you want to see it throughout the series? Sequels won't have the luxury of having Kal-El being sent away again.
Nope, I'd rather not see any more religious allegory than is necessary. No Moses, Jesus, Buddha, or any other such references if it can be avoided. Let Superman be himself.

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Old 09-27-2012, 03:24 PM   #105
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman: - Part 10

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Nope, I'd rather not see any more religious allegory than is necessary. No Moses, Jesus, Buddha, or any other such references if it can be avoided. Let Superman be himself.
Agreed. What I'd like to see presented more is Jonathon and Martha's human influence. For me whenever the Krytonian super religious vibes begin the human influence on Kal/Clark is diminished and he becomes less grounded to the people he is actually protecting.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:34 PM   #106
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman: - Part 10

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It's not a speech that makes sense regardless of when it's given. He dies shorty after Kal-El is sent away. There's no reason for him to assume that his son is going to turn into a shining example of goodness. Compare his speech to Jonathan's and the latter'sis so much more plausible.
I was just saying that he may talk to Jor-El at some point when he is older like in S:TM. He may be told while he is forming his identity.

However, I was never able to figure out if the Jor-El and Lara holograms in the Donner-verse were sentient or just recordings -- Kryptonian technology could explain the former.

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Nope, I'd rather not see any more religious allegory than is necessary. No Moses, Jesus, Buddha, or any other such references if it can be avoided. Let Superman be himself.
Sound good to me. I was just wondering how far you'd want to take it.

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Old 09-27-2012, 03:47 PM   #107
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman: - Part 10

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Yep. The whole "You will lead the people of Earth into the light, Kal-El" makes no sense coming from Jor-El. He knows nothing about his son's personality; Kal-El could just as easily grow up to be a tyrant as Earth's savior.
Maybe. But a responsible and loving father (on his "deathbed," essentially) would convey the highest aspirations he had for his son - and kinda skip over the more negative possibilities.

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Old 09-27-2012, 04:11 PM   #108
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman: - Part 10

Gina Carano... 'favorite' to play Wonder Woman? Sure.

As for the All-Star dialogue, there's nothing preachy about it. Quite simply, it's the type of dialogue Jor-El has been known for when he's discussing Clark's 'destiny'. While on the subject, I doubt that Jor-El will be reciting those lines to baby Kal-El as Krypton is falling apart. It's more likely that Jor-El's recorded hologram will be inspiring young Clark (after discovering the ship and/or Fortress) of what his purpose is living amongst the humans.

Superman's image must be one of a savior and/or beacon of hope. Similar to Batman, Superman is a symbol to all mankind, and will be the ambassador to all 'alien' life on Earth, after all.

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Old 09-27-2012, 04:29 PM   #109
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman: - Part 10

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Superman's image must be one of a savior and/or beacon of hope. Similar to Batman, Superman is a symbol to all mankind, and will be the ambassador to all 'alien' life on Earth, after all.
That's a good point. Yes, we definitely need to FEEL Superman is what Jor-El is saying he is but it always helps to have flowery dialogue to enhance it. I mean, how many times in the TDK Trilogy did we hear the idea that Batman is a symbol, he strikes fear, blah, blah, blah? It helps sell the point.

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Old 09-28-2012, 02:12 AM   #110
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman: - Part 10

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Maybe. But a responsible and loving father (on his "deathbed," essentially) would convey the highest aspirations he had for his son - and kinda skip over the more negative possibilities.
This.

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Old 09-28-2012, 02:17 AM   #111
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman: - Part 10

Again, let's talk more about Jonathon and Martha's influence. Why is Jor-El the only influence allowed for Kal/Clark? Why is this this case when the man/Superman was raised on earth from a baby? Why must the Kryptonian influence be the only influence that is recognized?

Again, I do not like the Christ parallels. Yes, I get that they are there and a part of the mythos, but they shouldn't be an enormous part of it. IMO, Superman needs to be grounded to the earth...not Krypton.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:19 AM   #112
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman: - Part 10

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Anybody see this?


Superman Man of Steel Henry Cavill Seen With Wonder Woman Gina Carano

Posted by: Matt McGloin, Editor/Publisher
September 26, 2012 23:22 | Updated: 13 hours 51 min Ago



Guess what's rumored for the new Superman movie, Man of Steel?

A Wonder Woman appearance.

Guess who is a couple in the DC Comics?

Superman and Wonder Woman.

Guess who was spotted together at the recent McLaren Automotive unveiling?

Henry Cavill with fitness model/mma star/actress/americangladiator Gina Carano.

Guess who's the "favorite" to play Wonder Woman.

Yup.

We know Henry Cavill broke up with his fiancee.

Wonder where Cavill and Carano met?

Yup.





Source: http://movies.cosmicbooknews.com/con...an-gina-carano


They look good together.

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Old 09-28-2012, 08:11 AM   #113
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman: - Part 10

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Again, let's talk more about Jonathon and Martha's influence. Why is Jor-El the only influence allowed for Kal/Clark? Why is this this case when the man/Superman was raised on earth from a baby? Why must the Kryptonian influence be the only influence that is recognized?

Again, I do not like the Christ parallels. Yes, I get that they are there and a part of the mythos, but they shouldn't be an enormous part of it. IMO, Superman needs to be grounded to the earth...not Krypton.
i think jor el's message comes across more powerful and the teaser back up this claim

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Old 09-28-2012, 09:09 AM   #114
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman: - Part 10

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Again, let's talk more about Jonathon and Martha's influence. Why is Jor-El the only influence allowed for Kal/Clark? Why is this this case when the man/Superman was raised on earth from a baby? Why must the Kryptonian influence be the only influence that is recognized?
It’s not. Typically, the Kent influence is substantial too. Indeed, the aspirations of both sets of parents are largely in sync. With his extraordinary abilities, Kal-El/Clark is expected to do good works and be a noble symbol.

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Old 09-28-2012, 09:21 AM   #115
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman: - Part 10

I would also say that the Kryptonians have the ability to speak to him from the fortress unlike that Kents -- if they are dead -- so of course their influence would be stronger.

I wouldn't mind seeing Superman being completely alone however. No connection to either set after a point.

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Old 09-28-2012, 09:28 AM   #116
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^ isn't that what Alaska clark is? alone

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Old 09-28-2012, 09:42 AM   #117
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^ isn't that what Alaska clark is? alone
I assume so. But I guess I'm speaking more about the series down the line. I wonder how it would play if he couldn't speak to Jor-El and Lara in the fortress or the Kents.

Part of me thinks it might be boring since he has no one to talk to. But at the same time, it might strengthen his relationships with Lois and Jimmy (if we ever see him) because he has no one else.

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Old 09-28-2012, 09:51 AM   #118
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman: - Part 10

That awkward moment where you find out Henry actually just hired Gina to be his bodyguard.

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Old 09-28-2012, 09:55 AM   #119
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman: - Part 10

These Heroes possess powerful personalities and if they do not interact with anyone "Normal" they would become cold and distant.

It is the main reason why heroes like Sherlock Holmes has a Dr. Watson, Spider-Man has Aunt May, Batman has Alfred and Superman has Kents and Jor El.

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Old 09-28-2012, 09:59 AM   #120
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman: - Part 10

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These Heroes possess powerful personalities and if they do not interact with anyone "Normal" they would become cold and distant.

It is the main reason why heroes like Sherlock Holmes has a Dr. Watson, Spider-Man has Aunt May, Batman has Alfred and Superman has Kents and Jor El.
Oh, I agree. But IF the Kents are dead then all that is left are Jor-El and Lara. I was wondering how it would be if it was neither as some people are tired of the heavy Kryptonian influence.

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Old 09-28-2012, 10:06 AM   #121
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman: - Part 10

I don't think that they will show much of A.I. Jor-El in the sequels, then you have Lois Lane and Jimmy Olsen as normal characters with whom Clark can talk to.

I expect Lois to know Clark's identity by the end of this movie and I don't think that there will be any amnesia kiss this time.

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Old 09-28-2012, 10:11 AM   #122
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman: - Part 10

The All-Star derived speech from Jor-El is epic and fantastic, I don't get how you could dislike it. Maybe it's because I'm an atheist and don't have a personal relationship to the biblical references and parallels, and just love them cause they are great themes and story-elements to use.

It's a huge part of my love for Superman. Different strokes I guess, but it feels like such a big part of Superman that it's hard to imagine someone being a super Superman-fan and totally hating those things.

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Old 09-28-2012, 11:22 AM   #123
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman: - Part 10

Who says Jor-El will be the only inspiration for Kal-El in becoming Superman? If anything, The Kents will serve as the larger influence.

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Quote:

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Old 09-28-2012, 02:40 PM   #124
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman: - Part 10

I have never liked the idea that Jor-El sends his son to earth to be a savior. It makes it sound like he is selflessly giving his son away for some greater good which is not the case. His planet is dying and Jor-El's dying wish is that he wants his only son to survive and live on. That is why I like Birthright so much.

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Old 09-29-2012, 01:17 PM   #125
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman: - Part 10

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The All-Star derived speech from Jor-El is epic and fantastic, I don't get how you could dislike it. Maybe it's because I'm an atheist and don't have a personal relationship to the biblical references and parallels, and just love them cause they are great themes and story-elements to use.

It's a huge part of my love for Superman. Different strokes I guess, but it feels like such a big part of Superman that it's hard to imagine someone being a super Superman-fan and totally hating those things.
Same here its a great speech

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