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Old 09-23-2012, 12:46 AM   #126
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Default Re: The Kirsten Dunst/Mary Jane Watson Thread - Part 1

Two important things:
1. Breaking a promise to do something trivial, we excuse you MJ for doing that, Peter sucks for breaking his promise to you just once on something so trivial. Then she breaks her promise to JJ, and she promised something big and lasts a life time, but she's excused for leaving John to be with the man she wants to be with? And it's ignored how she says nothing but her play to say "Peter, you're an empty seat. I cannot be reasonable like the MTV cartoon MJ with the play"
2. The festival, MJ tried to tell him at the festival about getting fired

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Old 09-23-2012, 01:43 AM   #127
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Default Re: The Kirsten Dunst/Mary Jane Watson Thread - Part 1

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Two important things:
1. Breaking a promise to do something trivial, we excuse you MJ for doing that, Peter sucks for breaking his promise to you just once on something so trivial. Then she breaks her promise to JJ, and she promised something big and lasts a life time, but she's excused for leaving John to be with the man she wants to be with?
Nobody excuses her behavior with John Jameson. She's a total biotch for doing that. However she didn't love John. Not saying that excuses her behavior, but the fact she treats Peter worse in Spider-Man 3, and she's supposed to love him and want to be with him, makes her even worse in Spider-Man 3 than she ever was in 2.

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2. The festival, MJ tried to tell him at the festival about getting fired
No she didn't. She told Peter she was fine when he asked if she was ok, agreed with him that they would be laughing about the review. That was it. Where did she attempt to tell him?

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Old 09-23-2012, 06:13 AM   #128
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Default Re: The Kirsten Dunst/Mary Jane Watson Thread - Part 1

What seems important to me is that in Spider-man 2, Parker never clearly expressed his desire to be with MJ. To the contrary, he had clearly stated that they should be friends and that he doesn't love her.
With such indecisiveness and hesitation to act on Parker's part, it would make no sense for MJ to wait around for someone who -for all she knows- could be gay or something. So I think it was perfectly acceptable for her to pursue other relationships, although she was a ***** for leading on Jameson and accepting his proposal.

Now for me, what made her behavior so appalling in the third movie, was the fact that her primary motivation seemed to be jealousy. She actually envied, resented and even lashed out at the guy she supposedly loves, all because by selflessly saving lives he had become more popular than her.
Right at the beginning she expresses her self-centered desire for fame, to be on stage her whole life with Peter sitting in awe of her 'in the first row'. She's with a guy who risks his life for strangers, who blindly worships and adores her, yet she punishes him, pushes him away and kisses his 'best friend' all because she's jealous of the attention he gets from the public for helping people!

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Old 09-23-2012, 06:38 AM   #129
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Default Re: The Kirsten Dunst/Mary Jane Watson Thread - Part 1

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What seems important to me is that in Spider-man 2, Parker never clearly expressed his desire to be with MJ. To the contrary, he had clearly stated that they should be friends and that he doesn't love her.
With such indecisiveness and hesitation to act on Parker's part, it would make no sense for MJ to wait around for someone who -for all she knows- could be gay or something. So I think it was perfectly acceptable for her to pursue other relationships, although she was a ***** for leading on Jameson and accepting his proposal.

Now for me, what made her behavior so appalling in the third movie, was the fact that her primary motivation seemed to be jealousy. She actually envied, resented and even lashed out at the guy she supposedly loves, all because by selflessly saving lives he had become more popular than her.
Right at the beginning she expresses her self-centered desire for fame, to be on stage her whole life with Peter sitting in awe of her 'in the first row'. She's with a guy who risks his life for strangers, who blindly worships and adores her, yet she punishes him, pushes him away and kisses his 'best friend' all because she's jealous of the attention he gets from the public for helping people!
Nicely summed up her behavior in SM 3, but she made no attempt to understand Peter in SM 2 either or show a bit of sympathy towards him, she was as much self centered in SM 2.

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Old 09-23-2012, 03:05 PM   #130
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Default Re: The Kirsten Dunst/Mary Jane Watson Thread - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Spider-Aziz View Post
Two important things:
1. Breaking a promise to do something trivial, we excuse you MJ for doing that, Peter sucks for breaking his promise to you just once on something so trivial. Then she breaks her promise to JJ, and she promised something big and lasts a life time, but she's excused for leaving John to be with the man she wants to be with? And it's ignored how she says nothing but her play to say "Peter, you're an empty seat. I cannot be reasonable like the MTV cartoon MJ with the play"
2. The festival, MJ tried to tell him at the festival about getting fired
1. She didn't truly love John Jameson. Yes, it's a *****y move to walk out of a wedding, but she only moved on because she was never going to be with Peter Parker, or so she thought. And it's at least better to walk out of a wedding than walking out of a marriage period.

2. She didn't try hard enough, now did she? Stammering and then deciding to open up to Harry instead.

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Old 09-29-2012, 01:24 AM   #131
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Default Re: The Kirsten Dunst/Mary Jane Watson Thread - Part 1

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Nicely summed up her behavior in SM 3, but she made no attempt to understand Peter in SM 2 either or show a bit of sympathy towards him, she was as much self centered in SM 2.
I don't agree. Remember that the first movie ended with MJ saying she loves Parker, and he basically rejects her. This continues into SM2 with Parker refusing to admit his feelings because he is Spider-man. MJ doesn't know he's Spider-man, so from her perspective it could only seem like he wasn't all that interested, or not willing to act, despite the chances she gives him to express himself.

She was more than patient enough for Parker to express himself. The only person she wronged was Jameson. She shouldn't have allowed things to get so serious with him, when part of her was still waiting for Parker to grow some balls.

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Old 09-29-2012, 02:40 PM   #132
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Default Re: The Kirsten Dunst/Mary Jane Watson Thread - Part 1

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I don't agree. Remember that the first movie ended with MJ saying she loves Parker, and he basically rejects her. This continues into SM2 with Parker refusing to admit his feelings because he is Spider-man. MJ doesn't know he's Spider-man, so from her perspective it could only seem like he wasn't all that interested, or not willing to act, despite the chances she gives him to express himself.

She was more than patient enough for Parker to express himself. The only person she wronged was Jameson. She shouldn't have allowed things to get so serious with him, when part of her was still waiting for Parker to grow some balls.
Exactly.

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Old 11-22-2012, 12:38 AM   #133
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Default Re: The Kirsten Dunst/Mary Jane Watson Thread - Part 1

Well let's not forget that MJ always suspected Pete to be Spider-Man -- in SM2 she acted the way any other girl would in such a position, and even said it was her choice to make to face those dangers. SO she didn't love Jameson what'd she do marry him anyway? It's true she shouldn't have led him on so far but she did make a choice.

She even went and asked Pete out on that date when Ock crashed it. MJ did take the steps to get to know Peter better, she had to -- she was dealing with Spider-Man, and she always suspected it.

Thing is, it happened, the characters were actually fleshed-out. Even Pete not telling Harry about his father was to honour the "don't tell harry" bit from the end. Pete shouldn't have pushed people away but what else was he supposed to do after what happened with the Goblin?

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Old 11-25-2012, 04:46 PM   #134
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Default Re: The Kirsten Dunst/Mary Jane Watson Thread - Part 1

MJ was self absorbed, whiny, over-emotional and seemed to put herself over others in relationships. Kirsten Dunst didn't look anyhting like Mary Jane either. Despite that, I still think Mary Jane's heart was in the right place, she was clearly sensitive. Sensitive, most of all to being neglected since we can only assume she was either neglected or abused her entire life growing up. I think she was a highly flawed character, but I think Kirsten could have given a little more life in her lines and given MJ a little more spice rather than non-stop depression and misery which is what we got in SM2 & 3. She literally sucked the life out of every scene she was in. Which is the oppisite of Mary Jane in the comics.

She was cute looking in the role and I like Kirsten as an actress alot, but it is so obvious she hated playing the role in the last two movies.

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Old 11-28-2012, 02:35 AM   #135
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Default Re: The Kirsten Dunst/Mary Jane Watson Thread - Part 1

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She was cute looking in the role and I like Kirsten as an actress alot, but it is so obvious she hated playing the role in the last two movies.

I really like Kirsten too,but you're right. You could tell her heart wasn't really into the role,esp. for part 3. Even watching alot of interviews she did for 2 and 3,you can just see how tired she is of talking about the films. Of course,all she really did over the course of the 3 films is scream and get kidnapped. I'm sure that,as an actress,that gets old...really quickly.

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Old 08-09-2013, 04:22 AM   #136
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Default Re: The Kirsten Dunst/Mary Jane Watson Thread - Part 1

What the Hell Happened to Kirsten Dunst?

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Old 08-09-2013, 06:14 AM   #137
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Default Re: The Kirsten Dunst/Mary Jane Watson Thread - Part 1

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Nobody excuses her behavior with John Jameson. She's a total biotch for doing that. However she didn't love John. Not saying that excuses her behavior, but the fact she treats Peter worse in Spider-Man 3, and she's supposed to love him and want to be with him, makes her even worse in Spider-Man 3 than she ever was in 2.



No she didn't. She told Peter she was fine when he asked if she was ok, agreed with him that they would be laughing about the review. That was it. Where did she attempt to tell him?
I liked that she was kinda passive aggressive in part 3, it felt like they were in a real relationship, not some fairy tale.

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Old 08-11-2013, 03:50 PM   #138
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Default Re: The Kirsten Dunst/Mary Jane Watson Thread - Part 1

^ Exactly.If a relationship had been written like that in TDK series,there would be no end to the praise of such a "revolutionary" move.

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Old 08-11-2013, 04:07 PM   #139
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Default Re: The Kirsten Dunst/Mary Jane Watson Thread - Part 1

There was no relationship in the TDK series. Bruce and Rachel never became an item. If the Peter/MJ relationship had been written like the good comic book movie relationships like Tony and Pepper, for example, which had friction in it, but not unreasonable selfish *****y friction that made Pepper look like a shallow two faced cow who used people, then it would get praise.

But it doesn't.

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Old 08-11-2013, 04:09 PM   #140
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Default Re: The Kirsten Dunst/Mary Jane Watson Thread - Part 1

One of the results of the Raimi films is that they made me hate the character MJ, thanks to the casting of Dunst and terrible scripting.

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Old 08-11-2013, 05:12 PM   #141
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Default Re: The Kirsten Dunst/Mary Jane Watson Thread - Part 1

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There was no relationship in the TDK series. Bruce and Rachel never became an item. If the Peter/MJ relationship had been written like the good comic book movie relationships like Tony and Pepper, for example, which had friction in it, but not unreasonable selfish *****y friction that made Pepper look like a shallow two faced cow who used people, then it would get praise.

But it doesn't.
Have you ever been in a relationship with a woman? More often then not, they tend to be like Pete and MJ, rather than Tony and Pepper.

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Old 08-11-2013, 05:18 PM   #142
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Default Re: The Kirsten Dunst/Mary Jane Watson Thread - Part 1

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Have you ever been in a relationship with a woman? More often then not, they tend to be like Pete and MJ, rather than Tony and Pepper.
Several. The only time they're like Peter and MJ is when one of them is as horrible and selfish as MJ was.

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Old 08-16-2013, 01:30 PM   #143
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Default Re: The Kirsten Dunst/Mary Jane Watson Thread - Part 1

I don't think MJ was ever horrendously bad in any moment for me, but the series always focused on the problems in their relationship and never gave us a sight of why these two worked. Throughout 3 films, there's barely any instances of them being happy together.

I don't blame Dunst. She's done a good job of being MJ in other films. It's all in the scripting and direction. She needed more zest.

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Old 08-28-2013, 10:48 AM   #144
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Default Re: The Kirsten Dunst/Mary Jane Watson Thread - Part 1

I wanted MJ to jump off a bridge in the Rami films.

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Old 06-22-2016, 03:19 PM   #145
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Default Re: The Kirsten Dunst/Mary Jane Watson Thread - Part 1

In an interview with Glamour UK, Elizabeth Banks said that she was turned down for the role of Mary-Jane Watson, the love interest in 2002's Spider-Man, for being “too old.” Banks was 28 at the time, only a year older than Tobey Maguire, who played Peter Parker/Spiderman.

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“I screen-tested for the role of Mary-Jane Watson in the first Spider-Man movie, opposite Tobey Maguire...Tobey and I are basically the same age and I was told I was too old to play her. I’m like, ‘Oh, okay, that’s what I’ve signed up for.’”
Typical Hollywood

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Old 06-24-2016, 01:40 AM   #146
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Wow, that's beyond ridiculous. I can't imagine how insulting that is...it's like someone spitting in your face. Too old when the lead is merely a year younger?

Absolute insanity.

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Old 06-24-2016, 06:02 AM   #147
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An Analysis Of Spider-Man 3, Part 3: Mary-Jane Watson, Her Characterization, Character Arc and Thematic Purpose...

There’s a common thing against Mary-Jane in these that she’s awful and a bad character. That’s not really true. I’ve seen Spider-Man 3 used as an example for that. There are those that interpret them not liking a character as them being bad. Many female characters get this. I’ve come to the conclusion that women can’t have not nice emotions all the time and can’t have flaws unless they’re cute to some. Her flaws aren’t cute and don’t make her an automatic great girlfriend for Peter and his life as Spider-Man. She’s not fully accepting of the fact that her relationship with him isn’t exactly working because of the responsibilities he has. She doesn’t blame him for this, but she doesn’t like it either. It causes problems in their relationship. Which is kind of the point.

Her poor review: She’s accused of being mean and a swear word in this scene. But Peter is doing what she gets angry at him for doing. Being self absorbed, only concerning himself with his own situation, not taking any time to give any real thought to hers. He makes her situation about his situation and how he triumphs over it. That’s apart of Peter’s character arc in the movie: Him being arrogant and self-centered. She’s in a temperamental place at this point, because her issues with her father are being brought to the surface, so she doesn’t react to this with much patience. They don’t get a chance to have a real conversation about it because he has to go and she doesn’t berate him for it. She just doesn’t say anything, because she wants to have a conversation with her boyfriend, but her boyfriend has a job and he can’t put her ahead of his job to do that.

Her insecurities: This puts Mary-Jane in a bit of an insecure place. No girlfriend wants a boyfriend that’s consumed by his job and doesn’t have time for her, but she can’t tell him that because he has responsibilities that are more important than her problems. She can’t express herself to him because he’s in such a good place and has bigger responsibilities than her and she feels bad because she isn’t and she does want someone to be able to talk to. This is where the counterpoint of her and Peter’s character arcs are: Her insecurity and his arrogance. This leads her to be able to talk to Harry, who is a clean slate for her at the moment. Mary-Jane does get jealous at seeing Peter being adored by the public while she is being rejected from her dream job. It’s a thing that happens with couples when one is more successful than another. It can make you feel like lesser than your mate. People don’t wanna feel like they aren’t good enough like that, especially someone who has already had that feeling for most of their life.

Mary-Jane’s anger: Regardless of this Mary-Jane is supportive of Peter’s accomplishments. She doesn’t want to bring him down. Then Peter cheats on her, which makes her feel even worse about herself. I’ve heard some say that Peter was acting and that he doesn’t get onto her about kissing other guys when she’s acting, so why should she? But Peter isn’t an actor and Gwen isn’t an actress and Gwen wasn’t acting. She was kissing a superhero, along with doing so Peter did this while in the same position as he and MJ were with their kiss. I’ve seen again an argument against her saying that if it was their kiss then why she’d kiss John in a similar way in Spider-Man 2? But she didn’t know it was their kiss at the time because she wasn’t really knowledgeable about Peter being Spider-Man, so she couldn’t view it as anything special between her and Peter. But she doesn’t say anything against him about it and gives him the crap he deserves about it only when she discovers that not only does he have a personal relationship with the girl he cheated on her with that he never told her about, but that she also clearly has a crush on him and one that he obviously knew of himself. He had it coming. So they go on a break, but she goes to him regardless when she’s learns of his Uncle’s killer, and she does the one thing he couldn’t for her: She understands how he feels. And she has got him down to a tee. She knows exactly what he’s out to do: Go out and get himself some reckless stupid selfish vengeance. He blows her off, and she leaves because she can't coddle someone who doesn’t want nor will accept help.

The Harry/Mary-Jane kiss: I’d go against Harry with the kiss before I’d go against MJ. Her and Peter are half-dead in the water and she’s in a messy place emotionally, while he’s not and is in best bud mode with Pete. But I don’t think it’s worth the time. Same with Pete gettin’ hot and heavy in the rain with his supposedly best bud’s girl in Spider-Man 1. All parties involved are to blame. I can’t hate one without hating all. Same goes for Peter trying to break up an engagement after he’s missed his shot in Spider-Man 2. MJ tells him she’s in a relationship, one that’s becoming more than companionship, she gives him a clear opening, and he doesn’t go for it, so she gives him a message that’s even clearer: She’s not waiting anymore, she’s gonna move on. Peter didn’t need to send her signals either after that, but he did. He point blank asked her out, an engaged woman, and she shut him down. The whole situation was unfortunate for everyone involved to be honest. But it’s something that happens all the time, and something that’s not really my place to judge her or Peter on. No matter what though, none of the things that have been listed against her come even close to Peter and Harry’s worst offenses: Actively making choices that they know will hurt or get someone killed in one way or another. Choices that THEY make, no one else. But Mary-Jane gets trashed for her lesser actions, but the male characters don’t really.

Mary-Jane’s character arc: She really does have an interesting arc in this movie that kind of parallels Peter’s from Spider-Man 2. There Peter had to deal with the decision he made at the end of the last movie of being Spider-Man and dismissing anything else in his life. Mary-Jane here has to deal with her decision at the end of Spider-Man 2 of being Spider-Man’s girlfriend and how that effects her as a person. The movie doesn’t really sugarcoat it either. It’s not fun. We see her face her desire to have him when she can’t, his contact with other women, her insecurity at this and how successful he is and even with his life being threatened. She goes through a lot. She would’ve had a more interesting conclusion to her character arc, if there hadn’t been any change at the end of the movie. Originally, Eddie was going to kidnap Gwen and Peter would have gone to Harry for help and Harry would have rejected him. But Mary-Jane would have come and convinced him to help with that speech about forgiveness that was in the trailers, making her the mouthpiece for one of the main themes of the movie. But that got changed. Not to say that getting kidnapped is a bad thing for the character. It doesn’t hurt her as a person and isn’t her fault. She’s not superpowered. She's a regular person. That’s what makes a developed character. But the kidnapping in this case had a bit of a stunting effect on the character in the movie.
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Old 07-08-2016, 11:58 AM   #148
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Default Re: The Kirsten Dunst/Mary Jane Watson Thread - Part 1

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"Peter you jerk, I won't invite you to my marriage of John we known about all this time, I'm marrying the guy I just knew this short while, but my upside kiss of him reminded me of my kiss with Spider-Man."
LOL. Her almost marrying someone else, let alone John Jameson (although he does kind of come off as a nicer version of Flash) is one of the more pretentious and underdeveloped and character-hurting elements of the series. Her claim at the end that she always knew Peter was Spider-Man also makes her seem a little too unreasonable in the rest of the film.

In general, the character is pretty self-absorbed (dating Harry for seemingly no reason and actually not being into him and more into others, abandoning John so abruptly, being so crushed at Peter missing a show and getting a bad review) and yet she also has affection and chemistry with Peter and tries to tone-down her absorption and be more understanding and supportive.

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Old 09-11-2016, 06:02 AM   #149
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Old 09-13-2016, 01:41 PM   #150
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LOL. Her almost marrying someone else, let alone John Jameson (although he does kind of come off as a nicer version of Flash) is one of the more pretentious and underdeveloped and character-hurting elements of the series. Her claim at the end that she always knew Peter was Spider-Man also makes her seem a little too unreasonable in the rest of the film.

In general, the character is pretty self-absorbed (dating Harry for seemingly no reason and actually not being into him and more into others, abandoning John so abruptly, being so crushed at Peter missing a show and getting a bad review) and yet she also has affection and chemistry with Peter and tries to tone-down her absorption and be more understanding and supportive.

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