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View Poll Results: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?
Captain America 9 5.56%
Iron Man 17 10.49%
Thor 7 4.32%
Hulk 5 3.09%
Black Widow 19 11.73%
Hawkeye 24 14.81%
Nick Fury 20 12.35%
Maria Hill 26 16.05%
A new Avenger (please specify) 3 1.85%
A new SHIELD agent (please specify) 1 0.62%
Other (please specify) 6 3.70%
No one! 25 15.43%
Voters: 162. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-13-2012, 05:46 PM   #251
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

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If its post-Avengers 3 like I said, thats over 6 years from now. That kind of CGI will be run of the mill in 6 years.

If anyone is concerned about Ruffalo's screen time in a Planet Hulk film, he could come in and talk to Hulk in dreams or when he is alone on screen. That could be really cool in my opinion.
Plus there's the fact that Ruffalo would be playing the character through mo-cap and voice, so it's not like he wouldn't be involved.

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Old 09-13-2012, 08:48 PM   #252
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

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Plus there's the fact that Ruffalo would be playing the character through mo-cap and voice, so it's not like he wouldn't be involved.
Yea I hope they will be progressing him along as a more intelligent hulk. He made a lot of progress from TIH to Avengers so no matter what his next solo movie is I hope he can at least carry on a small conversation.

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Old 09-14-2012, 07:05 PM   #253
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

I don't want to see Whedon kill a character just to do it. And any characters that have their own franchises are not going to be killed. Which leaves Hawkeye and Black Widow as potential victims. Instead of killing them off, why not just have them leave the team or get injured and forced to stay out of a fight.

Regarding a Planet Hulk film, I think you could have Hulk turn into Banner on the planet. I know it wasn't that way in the comics, but it would work in a film. It would also allow for quite a bit of drama, as Banner is far more vulnerable to all the crazy aliens. It would actually work well as an animated tv show, too. I know they did the one film, but it could be stretched out with Hulk visiting different places on the planet and meeting different cultures and societies, slowly gaining allies for an eventual face-off with the Red King.

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Old 09-16-2012, 11:07 AM   #254
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

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If its post-Avengers 3 like I said, thats over 6 years from now. That kind of CGI will be run of the mill in 6 years.

If anyone is concerned about Ruffalo's screen time in a Planet Hulk film, he could come in and talk to Hulk in dreams or when he is alone on screen. That could be really cool in my opinion.
That's a cool take on Ruffalo's involvement, and with him making Hulk real, it'd be interesting for him, as an incredible actor, to really create a full featured Hulk/Banner dynamic, and walk the line between schizoid and dual role. Very cool.

But Avatar-amounts of CGI won't become run of the mill in 6 years, just like Final Fantasy Spirits Within CGI didn't become run of the mill ever. It's still crazy expensive because of the time factor in creating that much quality.

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I figured characters that are more humanoid and some of the more creature-ish ones could be done via live action and animatronics, etc.
That could be interesting. A more Hellboy-ish take on Planet Hulk. Could be really interesting, and dramatically more affordable. I didn't really read/watch PHulk so I'm not familiar with many of the creature designs, but it seems plausible at first glance.

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Old 10-02-2012, 01:41 AM   #255
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

I can't really see any of the big 4 being killed (Cap, Thor, Iron Man, Hulk).

Samuel Jackson is 63. He might have a a million picture deal but he's not going to be around forever. I could see him being killed off and paving the way for Director Stark. But not likely.

I recall there being rumors of Hawkeye and Black Widow being in Captain America 2, and that there might be a romance between them. If that were true, it could lead to a classic Whedon move: take characters with long standing romantic tension, have them get together, and then promptly kill one of them.

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Old 11-11-2012, 01:08 PM   #256
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

Personally Iron Man..i think his death would have the greatest impact

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Old 11-11-2012, 04:15 PM   #257
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

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I can't really see any of the big 4 being killed (Cap, Thor, Iron Man, Hulk).

Samuel Jackson is 63. He might have a a million picture deal but he's not going to be around forever. I could see him being killed off and paving the way for Director Stark. But not likely.

I recall there being rumors of Hawkeye and Black Widow being in Captain America 2, and that there might be a romance between them. If that were true, it could lead to a classic Whedon move: take characters with long standing romantic tension, have them get together, and then promptly kill one of them.
What you've said is actually pretty plausible, aside from the Director Stark thing. It would 100% be Maria who would take over after Nick Fury's inevitable death.

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Old 11-11-2012, 06:56 PM   #258
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

Not unless Fury personally asks for Stark to replace him.

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Old 11-11-2012, 07:22 PM   #259
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

Director Stark. I like the sound of that.

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Old 11-12-2012, 01:34 PM   #260
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

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Not unless Fury personally asks for Stark to replace him.
He can ask all he wants, doesn't mean it will happen.

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Old 11-12-2012, 01:40 PM   #261
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

So much hate for Maria Hill

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Old 11-12-2012, 01:41 PM   #262
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:25 PM   #263
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

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So much hate for Maria Hill

Hill is eminently hateable. The comic book version is a nasty piece of work with no redeeming qualities, while the MCU counterpart is stupid, backstabbing and weak.


Hill stupidly wanted to stop the evacuation of the SHIELD facility, which would have cost countless lives; she let Barton and Loki walk right past her without a second thought about a man in outlandish garb being on-site; she worked with the WSC behind Fury's back, taking the side of short-sighted war criminals over the man who came up with the team that saved the world from conquest. That was all in line with Hill's behavior in the comics, so one must assume that her creators want her to be an object of scorn.

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Old 11-18-2012, 06:01 PM   #264
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

I love RDJ as Iron Man but he'll have his 3rd film coming up next year, and he ain't gettin' any younger, along with a full plate as far as movie roles go, plus it would be a big shocker, which I think Joss likes to do. So... I'm going with Iron man. (I like the character and all, not that I want him to die. I'm just saying, most likely choice IMO)

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Old 11-18-2012, 06:17 PM   #265
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

I think he'll bring back a certain someone.

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Old 11-19-2012, 09:29 AM   #266
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

Theyre going to recast IM eventually and Disney/Marvel would never ever ever kill off their most popular character/franchise. Now if you're talking a bout killing him temporarily a la the comics, then sure ANYONE could be "killed" in this manner without any repercussions.

If you're talking about a non-bs death, then IM is the LEAST likely by far to die. RDJ's age is irrelevant, as the powers that be would happily let him play the character indefinitely, and Feige has already said they're going to "james bond" their characters as the original actors bow out.

IM may still die, but there is zero evidence that this is likely. All the evidence is to the contrary in fact. And other than say, Hawkeye, theres little chance that whoever kicks the bucket will stay dead for very long.

And if something is the "most likely choice", how can it also be a "shocker"?

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Old 11-19-2012, 12:12 PM   #267
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

I think they should kill Thor,

and Captain America, Ironman, Hulk, Black Widow, Hawkeye and Fury.

Have Maria Hill as the new director, and have an all NEW new avengers

with dare devil, luke cage, venom, skurge, and
captain underpants

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Old 11-19-2012, 04:41 PM   #268
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

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I think he'll bring back a certain someone.

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Old 11-21-2012, 11:24 AM   #269
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

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Hill is eminently hateable. The comic book version is a nasty piece of work with no redeeming qualities, while the MCU counterpart is stupid, backstabbing and weak.


Hill stupidly wanted to stop the evacuation of the SHIELD facility, which would have cost countless lives; she let Barton and Loki walk right past her without a second thought about a man in outlandish garb being on-site; she worked with the WSC behind Fury's back, taking the side of short-sighted war criminals over the man who came up with the team that saved the world from conquest. That was all in line with Hill's behavior in the comics, so one must assume that her creators want her to be an object of scorn.
That's a remarkably ruthless take on her actions. I interpreted them quite differently, and I would bet most people who didn't already hate her from the comics were similarly understanding of her mistakes, as they were the dumb, backstabbing and weak actions of all the other characters.

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Old 11-22-2012, 03:08 AM   #270
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

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That's a remarkably ruthless take on her actions. I interpreted them quite differently, and I would bet most people who didn't already hate her from the comics were similarly understanding of her mistakes, as they were the dumb, backstabbing and weak actions of all the other characters.

Ruthless? Not really. Hill wasn't portrayed in a very sympathetic light in the movie, her few moments of quasi-heroic action notwithstanding. She was a rather dimwitted obstructionist, and that is even more obvious when you look at the deleted scenes.


The character is an antagonist and was therefore bound to do some fairly wretched things, but I have to wonder why Whedon made Hill such an idiot. There must have been ways to have her butt heads with Fury that didn't involve her recommending harmful or self-defeating actions like calling off the evacuation of an imploding underground site. It wasn't as if Coulson had ordered an evac without taking other precautions, as Selvig and his team were still working to try and stop the Cube's reaction. On top of that, Hill's constant undermining of Fury made it clear that her top priority wasn't ensuring the best outcome but rather taking down her boss. Her actions would have engendered more sympathy from the audience had it been clear that she had valid concerns about Fury's plans.


In his commentary, Whedon identified the scene where Fury and Hill watched Iron Man and the Quinjet leaving the Helicarrier as the moment where she finally realized that Fury was right and stopped trying to oppose him. Presumably she'll have more character growth in her future appearances, though I'd rather see her exit (in a body bag) to make room for other, better SHIELD agents from the comics.

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Old 11-22-2012, 02:43 PM   #271
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

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Ruthless? Not really. Hill wasn't portrayed in a very sympathetic light in the movie, her few moments of quasi-heroic action notwithstanding. She was a rather dimwitted obstructionist, and that is even more obvious when you look at the deleted scenes.


The character is an antagonist and was therefore bound to do some fairly wretched things, but I have to wonder why Whedon made Hill such an idiot. There must have been ways to have her butt heads with Fury that didn't involve her recommending harmful or self-defeating actions like calling off the evacuation of an imploding underground site. It wasn't as if Coulson had ordered an evac without taking other precautions, as Selvig and his team were still working to try and stop the Cube's reaction. On top of that, Hill's constant undermining of Fury made it clear that her top priority wasn't ensuring the best outcome but rather taking down her boss. Her actions would have engendered more sympathy from the audience had it been clear that she had valid concerns about Fury's plans.


In his commentary, Whedon identified the scene where Fury and Hill watched Iron Man and the Quinjet leaving the Helicarrier as the moment where she finally realized that Fury was right and stopped trying to oppose him. Presumably she'll have more character growth in her future appearances, though I'd rather see her exit (in a body bag) to make room for other, better SHIELD agents from the comics.
The bolded never happened. Not only was the base not imploding yet but what she actually opposed was evacuating the Phase II items, which, if her advice had been heeded, would have saved Fury a lot of headache later on. All your points are like this. Your bias against the Hill character is making you believe things that aren't true to further support your bias. Your recounting of the events is not reliable.

Stark did far more dumbness, backstabbing and undermining... with actual negative consequences but that's okay. He's Stark, so he must mean well. -shrug-

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Old 11-23-2012, 04:28 AM   #272
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

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The bolded never happened. Not only was the base not imploding yet but what she actually opposed was evacuating the Phase II items, which, if her advice had been heeded, would have saved Fury a lot of headache later on. All your points are like this. Your bias against the Hill character is making you believe things that aren't true to further support your bias. Your recounting of the events is not reliable.

Stark did far more dumbness, backstabbing and undermining... with actual negative consequences but that's okay. He's Stark, so he must mean well. -shrug-

Hill: Sir, evacuation may be futile.
Fury: We should tell them to go back to sleep?
Hill: If we can't control the tesseract's energy, there may not be a minimum safe distance.
Fury: I need you to ensure that the Phase Two prototypes are shipped out.
Hill: Sir, is that really a priority right now?
Fury: Until such time as the world ends, we will act as if it is going to spin on.


The above scene said, to me, that Hill wanted to stop the evacuation because of her fear/assumption that the tesseract's "behavior," as Selvig put it, could not be stopped. She did not, however, offer any alternative to the plan Coulson had already implemented, which entailed evacuating all non-essential personnel as quickly as possible while having Selvig's team continue to try and contain the cube's energy. Hill also was not helping to move forward with clearing out the base until Fury ordered her to. Fury made it clear that he was going forward with the plan that offered some hope of survival for his personnel as well as the possibility for staving off total disaster. In other words, Fury had a plan, Hill offered nothing in response except objections that it might not work.


Perhaps your bias in favor of Hill caused you to conveniently gloss over the part where she suggested that the evacuation was futile. The base wasn't actively imploding at that moment, but implosion was imminent and occurred only a few minutes later (it was eight minutes in the film). Had Fury heeded Hill's objections, more people might have lost their lives when the base did go under.


As for Stark, we weren't discussing him here. Sure, he did some stupid stuff, some of which I thought highly irresponsible. There is every possibility that his actions were influenced by Loki via the spear at times, however. Hill didn't have that potential out for much of the film.

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Old 11-23-2012, 01:17 PM   #273
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

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Hill: Sir, evacuation may be futile.
Fury: We should tell them to go back to sleep?
Hill: If we can't control the tesseract's energy, there may not be a minimum safe distance.
Fury: I need you to ensure that the Phase Two prototypes are shipped out.
Hill: Sir, is that really a priority right now?
Fury: Until such time as the world ends, we will act as if it is going to spin on.


The above scene said, to me, that Hill wanted to stop the evacuation because of her fear/assumption that the tesseract's "behavior," as Selvig put it, could not be stopped. She did not, however, offer any alternative to the plan Coulson had already implemented, which entailed evacuating all non-essential personnel as quickly as possible while having Selvig's team continue to try and contain the cube's energy. Hill also was not helping to move forward with clearing out the base until Fury ordered her to. Fury made it clear that he was going forward with the plan that offered some hope of survival for his personnel as well as the possibility for staving off total disaster. In other words, Fury had a plan, Hill offered nothing in response except objections that it might not work.


Perhaps your bias in favor of Hill caused you to conveniently gloss over the part where she suggested that the evacuation was futile. The base wasn't actively imploding at that moment, but implosion was imminent and occurred only a few minutes later (it was eight minutes in the film). Had Fury heeded Hill's objections, more people might have lost their lives when the base did go under.


As for Stark, we weren't discussing him here. Sure, he did some stupid stuff, some of which I thought highly irresponsible. There is every possibility that his actions were influenced by Loki via the spear at times, however. Hill didn't have that potential out for much of the film.
I didn't gloss over it. It took it for what it was: military protocol, which doesn't include a sort of faith-based decision making Fury does. Since Fury agreed with her point (he prioritized the Tesseract enough to handle it personally and sent her to a less important job), and would have been better off if he had heeded her actual objection to Phase II, I can't objectively view her as dumb or ineffective.

I guess it's not unreasonable to view her very valid point that it might not work as an 'objection,' but to go beyond that to "she only wanted to undermine her boss" doesn't seem reasonable to me.

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Old 11-23-2012, 02:27 PM   #274
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

Wasn't Tony Stark the one who Nick Fury personally told not to be apart of The Avengers and SHIELD? And Maria Hill? She worked her way up and was recruited in by Nick Fury. Case closed.

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Old 11-23-2012, 03:15 PM   #275
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

Maybe kill Nick Fury. That'd be interesting.

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