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Old 10-08-2012, 02:28 AM   #126
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Default Re: Batman Begins is the greatest Batman Film to me.

I rotate this trilogy when it comes to second best Batman film, I think I love them all equally
Favorite Batman film to me is still the 1989 one, favorite Batman, favorite Bruce, favorite Batmobile, most fun story to sit through
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Originally Posted by Majik1387 View Post
TDK is probably one of the worst Batman movies, only slightly better than Schumacher's movies and the 60's movie.
You've got a little fight in you, I dislike that

TDK is far from being a bad movie, it has some drawbacks

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Old 10-08-2012, 06:23 AM   #127
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Default Re: Batman Begins is the greatest Batman Film to me.

Majik1387, perhaps you could elaborate why you think TDK is a terrible movie. I've been reading your posts and you seem to hate it to death. lol.

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Old 10-08-2012, 06:50 AM   #128
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I do agree TDK is the best, but I think TDKR is by far the worst of the trilogy. Bane's plan and motives don't work for me, Cottiard was dull and pointless mostly. Hathaway was fantastic but we needed to see more of her. Gordon, Alfred, and Batman didn't get enough screen time, while Blake got too much.
As for screen time:

Batman - tdkr is bruce's story so....

Blake - if he got lesser screen time, there would have been backlash that fewer screen time means he didn't deserve to follow on bruce. since tdkr took things back to bb with the whole symbol thing it's just right that blake got 2nd or 3rd most screen time after bruce or bane.

Alfred - he's been suffering since bruce returned to gotham. when bruce wanted to return as batman to fight bane it was basically it. he broke. he couldn't take it anymore and the only thing he could do to make bruce realize was to leave. he served his purpose in the first act of the movie.

Gordon - i don't have any problems with gordon's screen time and characterization.

Hathaway - how would you give her more screen time, though? nolan only hinted a developing interest so her ending with bruce was satisfactory because she got what she want, a new life.

Bane and Talia - what do you think was bane's motive? because mine might be different. perhaps yours is love for the innocent but mine is the same as talia. he wanted to destroy gotham because bruce killed ra's.

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Old 10-08-2012, 11:47 AM   #129
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Default Re: Batman Begins is the greatest Batman Film to me.

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Originally Posted by comics View Post
As for screen time:

Batman - tdkr is bruce's story so....
Yeah so? Does that mean his alter ego should be neglected? It was factually timed. TDKR has the least amount of Batman screen time of the trilogy. These are BATMAN movies last time I checked.

Quote:
Blake - if he got lesser screen time, there would have been backlash that fewer screen time means he didn't deserve to follow on bruce. since tdkr took things back to bb with the whole symbol thing it's just right that blake got 2nd or 3rd most screen time after bruce or bane.
But that's just it, he didn't get 2nd or 3rd most screen time. His screen time is on par with Bruce's and definitely more than Bane's.

Furthermore his length of screen time is spent on a lot of boring rubbish like the orphans scenes, his ridiculous revelation of how he figured out Bruce was Batman, always morally preaching etc. Quality over quantity. Heath's Joker has less screen time than Batman, Gordon and Dent in TDK, yet he feels like a dominating presence because his screen time is used so effectively.

Blake's feels like a dominating presence because he literally is always there.

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Alfred - he's been suffering since bruce returned to gotham.
Really? Explain where he was suffering in Begins and TDK.

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]when bruce wanted to return as batman to fight bane it was basically it. he broke. he couldn't take it anymore and the only thing he could do to make bruce realize was to leave. he served his purpose in the first act of the movie.
No, that's not true at all. Alfred supported Bruce's quest as Batman in Begins and TDK. Even telling him he has to push on and endure in TDK when Bruce was the one losing faith in Batman.

Alfred's problem in TDKR was that Bruce was past his prime and was not the Batman he was 8 years ago.

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Gordon - i don't have any problems with gordon's screen time and characterization.
Good for you. I do. I don't find a Gordon who spends half the movie in a hospital bed, and then running around chasing a bomb very interesting compared to the meaty roles he had in the first two movies. The best scenes Gordon had in TDKR were the ones where he was suffering guilt over the Dent cover up.

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Hathaway - how would you give her more screen time, though?
By cutting down Blake's screen time, getting rid of useless dull characters like Foley, and using that screen time to develop Selina.

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nolan only hinted a developing interest so her ending with bruce was satisfactory because she got what she want, a new life.
It was satisfactory for you, not for me. They barely scratched the surface of what they could have done with Selina.

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Bane and Talia - what do you think was bane's motive? because mine might be different. perhaps yours is love for the innocent but mine is the same as talia. he wanted to destroy gotham because bruce killed ra's.
Bane came to Gotham during peace time, meaning when the city was in such a crime free state that they were going to retire Gordon. The LOS in Begins wanted to destroy Gotham when it was in a hopeless crime ridden state. If they had discovered the Dent cover up BEFORE they came to Gotham, then it would have made sense because they'd know this peace time was all based on a lie and a fraud. But they didn't. So what the hell were they doing here trying to kill a peaceful crime free city?

Why did Bane want to fulfill Ra's destiny? Ra's hated him and kicked him out of the LOS. Who would want to complete the work of someone like that? It's never elaborated on, but is strongly hinted he's just doing it because Talia wants it.

As for Talia, Miranda Tate was a boring dull character, very under used, who had no chemistry with Bale, and their sex scene came out of left field and felt unnatural and unconvincing. When she's revealed as Talia, she explains who she is, hops in Tumbler, and then gets one of the worst death scenes I've ever seen.

Awful.

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Last edited by The Joker; 10-08-2012 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:09 PM   #130
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Default Re: Batman Begins is the greatest Batman Film to me.

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Yeah so? Does that mean his alter ego should be neglected? It was factually timed. TDKR has the least amount of Batman screen time of the trilogy. These are BATMAN movies last time I checked.



But that's just it, he didn't get 2nd or 3rd most screen time. His screen time is on par with Bruce's and definitely more than Bane's.

Furthermore his length of screen time is spent on a lot of boring rubbish like the orphans scenes, his ridiculous revelation of how he figured out Bruce was Batman, always morally preaching etc. Quality over quantity. Heath's Joker has less screen time than Batman, Gordon and Dent in TDK, yet he feels like a dominating presence because his screen time is used so effectively.

Blake's feels like a dominating presence because he literally is always there.



Really? Explain where he was suffering in Begins and TDK.



No, that's not true at all. Alfred supported Bruce's quest as Batman in Begins and TDK. Even telling him he has to push on and endure in TDK when Bruce was the one losing faith in Batman.

Alfred's problem in TDKR was that Bruce was past his prime and was not the Batman he was 8 years ago.



Good for you. I do. I don't find a Gordon who spends half the movie in a hospital bed, and then running around chasing a bomb very interesting compared to the meaty roles he had in the first two movies. The best scenes Gordon had in TDKR were the ones where he was suffering guilt over the Dent cover up.



By cutting down Blake's screen time, getting rid of useless dull characters like Foley, and using that screen time to develop Selina.



It was satisfactory for you, not for me. They barely scratched the surface of what they could have done with Selina.



Bane came to Gotham during peace time, meaning when the city was in such a crime free state that they were going to retire Gordon. The LOS in Begins wanted to destroy Gotham when it was in a hopeless crime ridden state. If they had discovered the Dent cover up BEFORE they came to Gotham, then it would have made sense because they'd know this peace time was all based on a lie and a fraud. But they didn't. So what the hell were they doing here trying to kill a peaceful crime free city?

Why did Bane want to fulfill Ra's destiny? Ra's hated him and kicked him out of the LOS. Who would want to complete the work of someone like that? It's never elaborated on, but is strongly hinted he's just doing it because Talia wants it.

As for Talia, Miranda Tate was a boring dull character, very under used, who had no chemistry with Bale, and their sex scene came out of left field and felt unnatural and unconvincing. When she's revealed as Talia, she explains who she is, hops in Tumbler, and then gets one of the worst death scenes I've ever seen.

Awful.
You just plagiarized my mind .

Personally, I find TDKR to be the worst of the trilogy. I had to force myself to see it a second time in theaters, which spoke volumes. I just had no strong desire to see it again. In fact, I still don't. We'll see where I'm at come December.

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Old 10-08-2012, 07:11 PM   #131
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Default Re: Batman Begins is the greatest Batman Film to me.

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Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
Yeah so? Does that mean his alter ego should be neglected? It was factually timed. TDKR has the least amount of Batman screen time of the trilogy. These are BATMAN movies last time I checked.



But that's just it, he didn't get 2nd or 3rd most screen time. His screen time is on par with Bruce's and definitely more than Bane's.

Furthermore his length of screen time is spent on a lot of boring rubbish like the orphans scenes, his ridiculous revelation of how he figured out Bruce was Batman, always morally preaching etc. Quality over quantity. Heath's Joker has less screen time than Batman, Gordon and Dent in TDK, yet he feels like a dominating presence because his screen time is used so effectively.

Blake's feels like a dominating presence because he literally is always there.



Really? Explain where he was suffering in Begins and TDK.



No, that's not true at all. Alfred supported Bruce's quest as Batman in Begins and TDK. Even telling him he has to push on and endure in TDK when Bruce was the one losing faith in Batman.

Alfred's problem in TDKR was that Bruce was past his prime and was not the Batman he was 8 years ago.



Good for you. I do. I don't find a Gordon who spends half the movie in a hospital bed, and then running around chasing a bomb very interesting compared to the meaty roles he had in the first two movies. The best scenes Gordon had in TDKR were the ones where he was suffering guilt over the Dent cover up.



By cutting down Blake's screen time, getting rid of useless dull characters like Foley, and using that screen time to develop Selina.



It was satisfactory for you, not for me. They barely scratched the surface of what they could have done with Selina.



Bane came to Gotham during peace time, meaning when the city was in such a crime free state that they were going to retire Gordon. The LOS in Begins wanted to destroy Gotham when it was in a hopeless crime ridden state. If they had discovered the Dent cover up BEFORE they came to Gotham, then it would have made sense because they'd know this peace time was all based on a lie and a fraud. But they didn't. So what the hell were they doing here trying to kill a peaceful crime free city?

Why did Bane want to fulfill Ra's destiny? Ra's hated him and kicked him out of the LOS. Who would want to complete the work of someone like that? It's never elaborated on, but is strongly hinted he's just doing it because Talia wants it.

As for Talia, Miranda Tate was a boring dull character, very under used, who had no chemistry with Bale, and their sex scene came out of left field and felt unnatural and unconvincing. When she's revealed as Talia, she explains who she is, hops in Tumbler, and then gets one of the worst death scenes I've ever seen.

Awful.

And I thought I was alone on this. Can't say it any better than that.

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Old 10-11-2012, 04:16 PM   #132
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Default Re: Batman Begins is the greatest Batman Film to me.

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Why did Bane want to fulfill Ra's destiny? Ra's hated him and kicked him out of the LOS. Who would want to complete the work of someone like that? It's never elaborated on, but is strongly hinted he's just doing it because Talia wants it.
He didn't hate him from what I could gather, but rather just couldn't accept him as he was a constant reminder of what happened to his wife.


As for the original thread subject matter. TDK is probably the better and more admired film of the trilogy, but BB is the best to me. Without Begins we'd probably have never gotten TDK, but then again without B&R we'd probably not have gotten BB, lol.

The best things to come out of TDKR were Hardy and Hathaway's performances, imo.

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Old 10-13-2012, 05:16 PM   #133
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Best scene of this movie outside of the ending was when Batman straps Falcone to the lightbox and Gordon finds him. The soundtrack while this is happening is just downright sick. I mean the music was triumphant. That movies score gets a 9.5/10.
Again Batman Begins is the best super hero movie ever.

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Old 10-13-2012, 07:47 PM   #134
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It's the weakest of the trilogy, IMO. TDK and TDKR were better in every possible way. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad film, because it's not. Still fantastic. Giving it 9/10.

1. TDK/TDKR
2. BB
Slightly agree to this. Much as what my sig says, my ranking would be The Dark Knight Rises, The Dark Knight, Batman Begins. But that's not saying Batman Begins is bad; it's an incredible film and the best origin CBM film to date, and I love the entire trilogy, but that's just how my ranking would go. I understand the complaints of some regarding TDKR, but you're always going to get drawbacks from a film, so while TDKR isn't perfect to some, it's pretty damn close to me.

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Old 10-22-2012, 08:48 PM   #135
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And on the release of the film in 89' didn't most of those people eat humble pie, and have the Bat symbol everywhere!
When this came out I was 11. My buddies and I had seen Mr. Mom a dozen times when we were kids. We joked about it the whole time it was in theatres. Needless to say once we saw the movie when it came out on video we crapped ourselves. Or ate humble pie,whatever you want to say.

My favorite thing I remember about 89 when the movie came out was the 36 hour marathon of the 66 series on FX.

Batman Returns and Begins are my favorite Batman movies.

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Old 10-24-2012, 07:15 AM   #136
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Default Re: Batman Begins is the greatest Batman Film to me.

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When this came out I was 11. My buddies and I had seen Mr. Mom a dozen times when we were kids. We joked about it the whole time it was in theatres. Needless to say once we saw the movie when it came out on video we crapped ourselves. Or ate humble pie,whatever you want to say.

My favorite thing I remember about 89 when the movie came out was the 36 hour marathon of the 66 series on FX.

Batman Returns and Begins are my favorite Batman movies.
Yeah, what I remember the most was all the merchandise surrounding that film it seemed insane at the time, it was bat-everything!

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Old 10-26-2012, 12:28 PM   #137
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This film has a lot of awesome scenes,especially "Backup".. .

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Old 10-27-2012, 08:39 PM   #138
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Not many people love this film but this the film that started all. I love this film I remember things were that released during 2004 to early 2005.

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Old 10-28-2012, 03:17 AM   #139
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Batman Begins bores me. Too much talk about fear. Bland and under used villains. It wasn't a great movie. It wasn't even that good a movie. It gets props for being lumped in with TDK and because the previous Batman film had been so terrible that anything would've looked classic next to it.

The writing was terrible.
The story structure was lacking. By removing Bruce's decade long, worldwide pursuit of knowledge and placing him in a Himalayan Ninja school where he magically excells to the head of the class, so he can lead an attack on Gotham Nolan removed the obsession that makes it believable that the character will stop at nothing to achieve his ends. Ra's identity switch was totally from left field and made no sense at all. Scarecrow was a joke. Defeated by Rachel and her taser. He hardly wore the Scarecrow mask either. He was mostly Cillian Murphy in a suit. The characters made way too many speeches to each other instead of relating. Bruce's father was constantly lecturing him rather than speaking to him with love. Even as he was dying, which was stupid and laughable. The action scenes were blurry and boring. The Bat costume looks awful. Batman looked fat and stuffed into it. The Batmobile is ridiculous. It was jumping onto rooftops. No different different from Kilmer's wall climbing batmobile. The microwave emitter plan was dumb and a cliche. I think this movie is greatly overrated, and wasn't even that big a hit when released.
This is one of the worst posts I have stumbled across.

Surprise surprise, Begins is ranked as my favourite of the trilogy, and possibly my favourite movie of all time. That's not why I think Fudgie's opinion is bogus, I find the bolded statements, and many others that I left unbolded, to be farfetched and inane.

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Old 10-28-2012, 10:10 AM   #140
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Default Re: Batman Begins is the greatest Batman Film to me.

This entiretrilogy is the best Batman films to me, and I certainly admit that I grew up a lot watching these, following these films, and some of the narrative-beats have come to really shape some strong opinions I've come to hold. I know it may sound silly since it is, after all, just a movie, but you know how some films can really make you connect right? Well, these films worked like that for me. And especially Batman Begins since it's so much a part of Bruce's origin and how he starts off - it's that point where you know this is what changes you. I saw this when I was 15, and I don't think I've ever stopped seeing it since.

It did what many good books have done, what some of those original graphic novels did as well. It raised questions. You never expect that from a superhero movie.

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Old 10-28-2012, 12:59 PM   #141
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This is one of the worst posts I have stumbled across.

Surprise surprise, Begins is ranked as my favourite of the trilogy, and possibly my favourite movie of all time. That's not why I think Fudgie's opinion is bogus, I find the bolded statements, and many others that I left unbolded, to be farfetched and inane.
For all your outrage ya didn't give one reason why ya think it's so great. Ya just moaned about how you hate my post.

Well done on defending your fav movie.

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Old 10-28-2012, 05:21 PM   #142
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This entiretrilogy is the best Batman films to me, and I certainly admit that I grew up a lot watching these, following these films, and some of the narrative-beats have come to really shape some strong opinions I've come to hold. I know it may sound silly since it is, after all, just a movie, but you know how some films can really make you connect right? Well, these films worked like that for me. And especially Batman Begins since it's so much a part of Bruce's origin and how he starts off - it's that point where you know this is what changes you. I saw this when I was 15, and I don't think I've ever stopped seeing it since.

It did what many good books have done, what some of those original graphic novels did as well. It raised questions. You never expect that from a superhero movie.
For me this movie's biggest accomplishment, and maybe the trilogy's as a whole, is that it truly humanized Bruce Wayne and the characters around him. He was a man you could believe and invest in in the world he inhabited. A flawed but deeply heroic man.

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Old 10-28-2012, 09:37 PM   #143
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The fact that the entire trilogy revolves around Bruce Wayne makes the trilogy amazing as a whole, imo. He may have been pushed to the side in certain moments, but overall, the trilogy was all about Bruce Wayne's journey into creating a symbol and then passing the torch.

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Old 11-01-2012, 02:42 PM   #144
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Default Re: Batman Begins is the greatest Batman Film to me.

Exactly, and that says a lot since what we're essentially looking at is still a story about a human being who takes it on himself to become a superhuman; that aspect of finding the human beginnings of a myth and then jumping straight into the symbolic larger-than-life drama as well, that just made it so much more better than a typical origin story.

One other thing I absolutely LOVE about Begins is how they used Ra's and Batman as mentor and pupil. That relationship was just amazing -- added bonus for that line where Bruce is in prison and they're essentially talking about becoming superheroes and crime-fighters (note: without sounding like its a damned Saturday Morning pass-time) and Bruce just laughs in his face when he mentions "True Justice."

"Vigilantes?"

And then:

"No a vigilante is someone who is lost in the scramble for his own gratification, he can be locked up." Ra's looks around.

The reason is that this is pretty much what Batman is mostly represented in the media and who he was in Burton's films. The "Vengeance" or "Night" even though time and again in both the comics and the animated adaptations Bruce corrects how he'd never put the ends before the means and make it out to be some sort of self-indulgent tragedy.

Which speaks a lot -- tragedy, depression, hatred, rage -- those are things you don't like but the more you think about them the more you indulge in self-pity and just use that to justify all your actions. To a large extent, that's always been what the villains in this trilogy represented and what Bruce has always been close to becoming, but managed to save himself from it through his convictions.

At the same time, does anything think that Batman Begins was probably when we've seen Bruce the most optimistic?

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(pt 1; pt 2; pt 3; pt 4; pt 5; pt 6; pt 7)


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Old 11-01-2012, 03:46 PM   #145
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Yup because in Begins he thought the only ones he had to handle were the mob. Then the Joker and the LOS came along to Gotham.

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Old 11-02-2012, 07:39 AM   #146
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Default Re: Batman Begins is the greatest Batman Film to me.

True, and since he was starting off he was very much a believer of a better world. TDK just jaded the guy, and TDKR started off with guilt as it is.

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I call it Heroic Archetypes. You can read the parts on Batman Begins in the following links:
(pt 1; pt 2; pt 3; pt 4; pt 5; pt 6; pt 7)


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Old 11-19-2012, 08:18 PM   #147
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Default Re: Batman Begins is the greatest Batman Film to me.

I agree that BB is the best of the trilogy hands down. TDK is just one of those movies that I've probably seen 100 times and can repeat verbatim pretty much and it never gets old but AS A FILM and conceptually as a story BB wins hands down.

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Old 11-20-2012, 06:48 AM   #148
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Default Re: Batman Begins is the greatest Batman Film to me.

This film is highly underrated amongst the general audience, and that's a shame.

I remember so much about the lead up to this film, it was amazing.

The highlight for me was that early Ebert and Roeper review. The fact that they were calling it the best Batman movie ever by far, one of the best films of the year, I just couldn't hold in the excitement. Then, I saw the actual film and immediately fell in love with it. It was literally what I had always wanted to see out of a Batman film. Someone took the seriousness, the tone, and even some of the characterizations of Miller's Year One, put it on the big screen and even managed to make Ra's Al Ghul the villain. Absolutely brilliant.

Over time, I certainly found things that didn't exactly float my boat - like the amount of cheesy one liners, the microwave emitter and Martha Wayne's stunning lack of anything to do - but overall it's still one of my favorite films to watch. It's one of the best paced movies I've ever watched (same can be said for TDK) and always manages to hook my attention from start to finish.

People take it for granted now, but nobody had seen a superhero film that took itself so seriously before BB. Even Spider-Man 2 had tons of cheese and a lighthearted Saturday-morning-cartoon vibe to a lot of it. But Batman Begins, other than the aforementioned one-liners, treated its characters and its story with a sincerity and honesty that simply wasn't seen in comic book films at the time. Add to that the finest cast ever assembled for a comic book film, all bringing their A-game, and you have an incredible film. One that, as I mentioned, gets overlooked far too frequently.

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Old 11-20-2012, 10:51 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by Brain Damage View Post
This film is highly underrated amongst the general audience, and that's a shame.

I remember so much about the lead up to this film, it was amazing.

The highlight for me was that early Ebert and Roeper review. The fact that they were calling it the best Batman movie ever by far, one of the best films of the year, I just couldn't hold in the excitement. Then, I saw the actual film and immediately fell in love with it. It was literally what I had always wanted to see out of a Batman film. Someone took the seriousness, the tone, and even some of the characterizations of Miller's Year One, put it on the big screen and even managed to make Ra's Al Ghul the villain. Absolutely brilliant.

Over time, I certainly found things that didn't exactly float my boat - like the amount of cheesy one liners, the microwave emitter and Martha Wayne's stunning lack of anything to do - but overall it's still one of my favorite films to watch. It's one of the best paced movies I've ever watched (same can be said for TDK) and always manages to hook my attention from start to finish.

People take it for granted now, but nobody had seen a superhero film that took itself so seriously before BB. Even Spider-Man 2 had tons of cheese and a lighthearted Saturday-morning-cartoon vibe to a lot of it. But Batman Begins, other than the aforementioned one-liners, treated its characters and its story with a sincerity and honesty that simply wasn't seen in comic book films at the time. Add to that the finest cast ever assembled for a comic book film, all bringing their A-game, and you have an incredible film. One that, as I mentioned, gets overlooked far too frequently.
This.

Batman Begins was unprecedented at the time. I always figured the film was in good hands with Nolan, but the trailers never did justice to the true caliber of the film. Sure, there are plenty of things to nitpick as there are in all three films, but the simple audacity of playing things straight and grounded reality in a superhero film, was something that had never been pulled off with such class until 2005. Having that cast really made you believe in and invest in that world. What this movie really had above all else for me was a real tactile texture to it, due to it's heavy use of practical effects over CG. It didn't have a trace of that plastic feel you got from most action/adventure films at that time. It felt very much like the Batman film that would have been made in 1978, not 2005. And that was simply awesome.

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Old 11-20-2012, 08:03 PM   #150
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Default Re: Batman Begins is the greatest Batman Film to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises View Post
This.

Batman Begins was unprecedented at the time. I always figured the film was in good hands with Nolan, but the trailers never did justice to the true caliber of the film. Sure, there are plenty of things to nitpick as there are in all three films, but the simple audacity of playing things straight and grounded reality in a superhero film, was something that had never been pulled off with such class until 2005. Having that cast really made you believe in and invest in that world. What this movie really had above all else for me was a real tactile texture to it, due to it's heavy use of practical effects over CG. It didn't have a trace of that plastic feel you got from most action/adventure films at that time. It felt very much like the Batman film that would have been made in 1978, not 2005. And that was simply awesome.
Yeah,that about sums up how I felt after seeing it for the first time.I remember thinking 'They actually had the guts to make this like an old school 70's origin film.'

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