Who should be the villain in an Avengers sequel? (Poll)

[Chewy]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

So suddenly Phase III films aren't in development yet....? Is that the new tack for the Trilogy N Reboot Mob now --- the MCU is going to end with Phase II in 2015? Marvel Studios suddenly has no plans for 2016 and beyond? Nice grasping at straws, guys. (P.S.: how will you guys get your "trilogy" if there's no Phase III....?)

Originally Posted by Chewy

Or maybe they aren't going to pay him for movies they aren't actively developing yet?

Do you think Stan Lee's check for Avengers 3 is in the mail?

Do you understand the difference between a film that's in active development and one that's just planned? Ie one for which a studio is currently exercising options and spending money prepping, and one for which they are not?

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

"Yet" having exactly no bearing on Marvel's talks with Starlin about Thanos. Even if Thanos is on the drawing board for TA3, don't you think they'd at least mention that to Starlin? "We'll tell him about using his character for GOTG and TA2, but keep quiet about his big scene in TA3." Don't think so. Do you?

Sure. Do you think Starlin, at some arbitrary convention, would say "Hey guys Marvel told me Thanos might be in Avengers 3 if everything goes according to their plan!"?

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

So suddenly Phase III films aren't in development yet....? Is that the new tack for the Trilogy N Reboot Mob now --- the MCU is going to end with Phase II in 2015? Marvel Studios suddenly has no plans for 2016 and beyond? Nice grasping at straws, guys. (P.S.: how will you guys get your "trilogy" if there's no Phase III....?)



Yes, Jaqua, yes, I have. Several times. *You* choose to read Feige's comment as "Thanos is carrying over from Phase 2 to Phase 3." His quote, however, doesn't mention Thanos at all....he says that the seeds of Phase III (wait, what...? I thought that didn't exist....) will be planted in Phase II. My interpretation, again, is a very simple read of that statement: we'll see hints at the NEW Phase III villain(s) in our Phase II movies. In other words, seeds that hint at, say, Ultron or Kang or MOE or Kree-Skrull or Hypno-Hustler or Paste-Pot Pete. Cappice?

(since I don't know how to break down one post into two quotes, i will refer to them as 1 and 2 :P)

1. Are you serious? They have plans, but they aren't, shall we say, "in development" like A2 and guardians are

2. Yes. True, however, the interview was about Thanos, and the sentence prior was about Thanos. He was primarily talking about Thanos, so it would be a fair guess, given the content of his interview that he was talking about Thanos. Secondly, remember that whole, mcu big cinematic event for 2017 or 2018? I will still say that will be an infinity gauntlet movie. I mean, the IG hasn't even been addressed yet, in my opinion, having Thanos just get it, without too much of a history on it, for it to develop (outside of GoTG) would feel almost sort of anti climatic. And with the infinity gauntlet being a big story, and with Thanos being introduced into phase 2, and with a big event planned for phase 3, I would be totally inclined to believe that they have plans for thanos for a while.

And I mean this in the nicest, most humorous friendliest way possible....everyone vs Sam, what a surprise lmao

Originally Posted by Chewy

Do you understand the difference between a film that's in active development and one that's just planned? Ie one for which a studio is currently exercising options and spending money prepping, and one for which they are not?


Sure. Do you think Starlin, at some arbitrary convention, would say "Hey guys Marvel told me Thanos might be in Avengers 3 if everything goes according to their plan!"?

I'm with ya. Phase 3 is simply to far away. And wouldn't you think that Starlin wouldn't have to technically sign off yet on a film that has not been developed? My idea is that Thanos will not just be a villain in the MCU, but a reoccurring character until his climax

[GoldGoblin]

Screw Loki as the villain in Avengers 2,we already had him as the villain in Thor and the first Avengers movie.He is not gonna be the villain in Thor 2,so why the crap should he be the villain again in Avengers 2?

I want a new villain,a new threat,with some new Avengers members.If i want to see Loki as the villain I'll just watch Thor or Avengers again.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by Chewy

Do you understand the difference between a film that's in active development and one that's just planned? Ie one for which a studio is currently exercising options and spending money prepping, and one for which they are not?


Sure. Do you think Starlin, at some arbitrary convention, would say "Hey guys Marvel told me Thanos might be in Avengers 3 if everything goes according to their plan!"?

Why not? At some arbitrary convention, he *did* say "Hey guys, Marvel told me Thanos will be in Avengers 2 and GOTG." (Pretty sure Marvel wasn't happy about that, either.)

Originally Posted by jaqua99

(since I don't know how to break down one post into two quotes, i will refer to them as 1 and 2 :P)

1. Are you serious? They have plans, but they aren't, shall we say, "in development" like A2 and guardians are

Waitaminnit....you're the one who's been lobbying loudest for a trilogy with Thanos being the Big Boss in TA3, Infinity Gauntlet and all that. Are you saying now that Marvel might not be developing this as a single story arc (read: trilogy) after all....? Because you're now saying they don't know how TA3/Phase III will end and haven't storyboarded your Thanos/IG plot yet. It would be like Lucas planning out ESB and not having a clue where the story is going after Bespin. Doesn't sound like a well-planned out "trilogy" after all, now, does it?

2. Yes. True, however, the interview was about Thanos, and the sentence prior was about Thanos. He was primarily talking about Thanos, so it would be a fair guess, given the content of his interview that he was talking about Thanos.

Or, it would be a fair guess that he was saying that Phase II movies would hint at the next threat the Avengers face in Phase III. Since, you know, that's exactly what he said.

[DrCosmic]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

"Yet" having exactly no bearing on Marvel's talks with Starlin about Thanos. Even if Thanos is on the drawing board for TA3, don't you think they'd at least mention that to Starlin? "We'll tell him about using his character for GOTG and TA2, but keep quiet about his big scene in TA3." Don't think so. Do you?

Assuming they had a detailed conversation - even thought we've shown it was completely unnecessary - why wouldn't they tell him not to keep quiet like they've told everyone else.

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

(Pretty sure Marvel wasn't happy about that, either.)

It's incredible how many baseless assumptions you're pretty sure about.

Or, it would be a fair guess that he was saying that Phase II movies would hint at the next threat the Avengers face in Phase III. Since, you know, that's exactly what he said.

Hmmm... you're not really hung up on 'context' are you? Or accurate quoting? He said elements folded into phase II would pay off in the culmination of phase II and III. He didn't say hint, he said build, as in the subplots of Phase II would be relevant to Avengers 2 as they are Avengers 3.

Your entire point hinges on the idea that when he said 'elements' he was talking about two sets of elements, one to build to Phase II's culmination and another set to build to Phase III's culmination. That's a bit of a leap, but not one that explicitly excluded by the language like they idea they'll just hint at Phase III villains instead of starting to build them up. Oh, and it also requires that he had stopped answering the question he was asked mid-paragraph, something that he doesn't usually (ever?) do.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

Assuming they had a detailed conversation - even thought we've shown it was completely unnecessary - why wouldn't they tell him not to keep quiet like they've told everyone else.



It's incredible how many baseless assumptions you're pretty sure about.

Your first sentence makes absolutely no sense grammatically, so I'm not sure if you're arguing with me or agreeing with me. But I'll put it to you again: if they *plan* to use Thanos in Phase III, why the hell would they tell Starlin that they *plan* to use one of his most beloved creations in two Phase II movies, but not tell him that they *plan* to use him to wrap up this mythical "trilogy" of yours in Phase III....? That would be pretty damn deceptive of them, no?

Starlin: "So, you *plan* to use my Thanos in GOTG and Avengers 2....no other movies?"
Marvel: "Um...no."
Starlin: "....You sure? 'Cause you don't sound so sure."
Marvel: "Trust us. Have we ever lied to you? "

Hmmm... you're not really hung up on 'context' are you? Or accurate quoting? He said elements folded into phase II would pay off in the culmination of phase II and III. He didn't say hint, he said build, as in the subplots of Phase II would be relevant to Avengers 2 as they are Avengers 3.

Your entire point hinges on the idea that when he said 'elements' he was talking about two sets of elements, one to build to Phase II's culmination and another set to build to Phase III's culmination. That's a bit of a leap, but not one that explicitly excluded by the language like they idea they'll just hint at Phase III villains instead of starting to build them up. Oh, and it also requires that he had stopped answering the question he was asked mid-paragraph, something that he doesn't usually (ever?) do.

Here's your quote, in full:

"There's a great track record now about lobbing something in at the last moment to get the audience buzzing," Marvel's Kevin Feige told MTV News about the secret villain tucked into the ending of "The Avengers," which hits Blu-ray and DVD on September 25. "Particularly when it came to Thanos, [we knew] that most people in that audience had no idea who that purple guy was — but they could clearly tell he was important, and knew if they asked the two or three people sitting next to them, somebody would know who he was."


The exact trajectory of where Thanos goes from here isn't entirely known, but most fans feel it's all but certain that the Mad Titan will appear in "Guardians of the Galaxy," going on to serve as the major villain of Joss Whedon's "Avengers" sequel. Feige's lips are sealed when it comes to the particulars, but he's quick to add that there is a very clear plan in place for Thanos' next appearance.

"Clearly, there's a purpose to us putting him in the end of that movie. We do have plans for him," said Feige. "I wouldn't say we ever feel the need to rush anything one way or the other. We succeeded in Phase One because we stuck to our guns and stuck to the plan. That plan took place over many, many years and it ultimately paid off. I see Phase Two unfolding in the same way of us taking our time, us doing what's right for each individual movie, while folding in elements that will not only build up to the culmination of Phase Two, but even Phase Three."

Wherever Thanos shows up next, he might look significantly different from his first appearance. Asked if Marvel feels married to the casting of Damion Poitier, the actor behind Thanos in the "Avengers" stinger, Feige said, "I think we feel pretty free to recast. That was cast for literally that one shot. Depending on what the role requires from future movies, we'll go from there."

There's nothing in that quote that says anything about "we *plan* to use Thanos for Phase Three." In fact, everything Feige says there indicates he's not even sure how much Thanos they *plan* to use: "depending on what the role requires from future movies, we'll go from there."

So if they don't have a clear *plan* for Thanos beyond two movies, then it's pretty clear they don't have a *plan* for a trilogy or a great big IG fireworks finale in Phase Three. Right?

I'm not saying that Thanos *won't* take off and become a huge hit with the masses. I'm not saying that a hugely popular Thanos would require MS to rethink their plans and choose *later* to reuse him in Phase Three. What I'm saying is there's absolutely no proof or hint that they *plan* to use Thanos as a recurring archnemesis for the Avengers in a pre-designed trilogy or series that has a definite ending for the franchise in mind. Do you not see that at all....?

[DrCosmic]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Your first sentence makes absolutely no sense grammatically, so I'm not sure if you're arguing with me or agreeing with me. But I'll put it to you again: if they *plan* to use Thanos in Phase III, why the hell would they tell Starlin that they *plan* to use one of his most beloved creations in two Phase II movies, but not tell him that they *plan* to use him to wrap up this mythical "trilogy" of yours in Phase III....? That would be pretty damn deceptive of them, no?

Starlin: "So, you *plan* to use my Thanos in GOTG and Avengers 2....no other movies?"
Marvel: "Um...no."
Starlin: "....You sure? 'Cause you don't sound so sure."
Marvel: "Trust us. Have we ever lied to you? "

My first sentence boils down to: Why wouldn't they tell him to keep quiet about Phase III? Is that better grammatically?

It's only deceptive if Starlin asks a direct question and they give him a direct answer, something that only happens in your mythical conversation.

There's nothing in that quote that says anything about "we *plan* to use Thanos for Phase Three." In fact, everything Feige says there indicates he's not even sure how much Thanos they *plan* to use: "depending on what the role requires from future movies, we'll go from there."

So if they don't have a clear *plan* for Thanos beyond two movies, then it's pretty clear they don't have a *plan* for a trilogy or a great big IG fireworks finale in Phase Three. Right?

I'm not saying that Thanos *won't* take off and become a huge hit with the masses. I'm not saying that a hugely popular Thanos would require MS to rethink their plans and choose *later* to reuse him in Phase Three. What I'm saying is there's absolutely no proof or hint that they *plan* to use Thanos as a recurring archnemesis for the Avengers in a pre-designed trilogy or series that has a definite ending for the franchise in mind. Do you not see that at all....?

Definite Ending?
Retracting the 'people will get tired of Thanos' madness.
Which was the whole point of this line of thought for me.

Edit: The rest was unnecesary

[Whiskey Tango]

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

[Adamantium]

Originally Posted by Whiskey Tango

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

Goodnight folks. Thanks for coming. See you next week.

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Why not? At some arbitrary convention, he *did* say "Hey guys, Marvel told me Thanos will be in Avengers 2 and GOTG." (Pretty sure Marvel wasn't happy about that, either.)



Waitaminnit....you're the one who's been lobbying loudest for a trilogy with Thanos being the Big Boss in TA3, Infinity Gauntlet and all that. Are you saying now that Marvel might not be developing this as a single story arc (read: trilogy) after all....? Because you're now saying they don't know how TA3/Phase III will end and haven't storyboarded your Thanos/IG plot yet. It would be like Lucas planning out ESB and not having a clue where the story is going after Bespin. Doesn't sound like a well-planned out "trilogy" after all, now, does it?





Or, it would be a fair guess that he was saying that Phase II movies would hint at the next threat the Avengers face in Phase III. Since, you know, that's exactly what he said.

That's not exactly what he said. The only thing we can be sure of, is that the events the lead to the conclusion of phase 2, will lead to the conclusion of phase 3 at well. So, using what you believe, the thing that will lead to the end of whatever they do with Thanos, will lead to the end of whatever they do with phase 3 as well.

Either way, Fiege SAID, that the events leading up to the conclusion will also lead to the conclusion of phase 3. That is exactly what he said. He didn't say anything about a new threat. All he said, in an interview about thanos, is that the things that lead up to the conclusion of phase 2, will ALSO lead to the conclusion of phase 3.

And to my comment, no, that's not what I am saying at all. All I am saying is that those movies are not in "development" yet, and that there is no reason to sign off on a character.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

That's not exactly what he said. The only thing we can be sure of, is that the events the lead to the conclusion of phase 2, will lead to the conclusion of phase 3 at well. So, using what you believe, the thing that will lead to the end of whatever they do with Thanos, will lead to the end of whatever they do with phase 3 as well.

Either way, Fiege SAID, that the events leading up to the conclusion will also lead to the conclusion of phase 3. That is exactly what he said. He didn't say anything about a new threat. All he said, in an interview about thanos, is that the things that lead up to the conclusion of phase 2, will ALSO lead to the conclusion of phase 3.

Let me show you the quote again, even though I posted it two posts back:

"Clearly, there's a purpose to us putting him in the end of that movie. We do have plans for him," said Feige. "I wouldn't say we ever feel the need to rush anything one way or the other. We succeeded in Phase One because we stuck to our guns and stuck to the plan. That plan took place over many, many years and it ultimately paid off. I see Phase Two unfolding in the same way of us taking our time, us doing what's right for each individual movie, while folding in elements that will not only build up to the culmination of Phase Two, but even Phase Three."

So let's take a hypothetical here: pretend for a moment that Phase III is about the Kree-Skrull War. (I'm not saying it is or trying to advance it as a theory; so everybody STFU before you even get started. ) Pretend for a moment that GOTG features a cameo --- even a drive-by blink-and-ya-miss-it shot for the fanboys --- of Mar-Vell. And maybe Ronan the Accuser. Pretend for a moment that Ms. Marvel gets announced for a Phase III solo movie. And pretend that it all wraps up with the Kree and Skrulls having at it in TA3, and the Avengers right there in the mix, along with Mar-Vell and Carol Danvers. Now, does that scenario fit in with what Feige is saying? Yes. Does that scenario feature Thanos in Phase III at all? No.

Cappice?

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Let me show you the quote again, even though I posted it two posts back:



So let's take a hypothetical here: pretend for a moment that Phase III is about the Kree-Skrull War. (I'm not saying it is or trying to advance it as a theory; so everybody STFU before you even get started. ) Pretend for a moment that GOTG features a cameo --- even a drive-by blink-and-ya-miss-it shot for the fanboys --- of Mar-Vell. And maybe Ronan the Accuser. Pretend for a moment that Ms. Marvel gets announced for a Phase III solo movie. And pretend that it all wraps up with the Kree and Skrulls having at it in TA3, and the Avengers right there in the mix, along with Mar-Vell and Carol Danvers. Now, does that scenario fit in with what Feige is saying? Yes. Does that scenario feature Thanos in Phase III at all? No.

Cappice?

It fits only if that cameo leads to the defeat of thanos/the end of phase 2. HOWEVER, does what we are sayhing about thanos also fit in? It does. Its speculation, but to me, that's what it was.

I could write more, but honestly, I just finished a 5 hour jam session with some buddies, and it was awesome, and im just exhausted, love mi drums

and still, its still a bit different from what he said. To me, he wasn't saying the phase 3 threat will be introduced. Not a cameo. He said the events that will lead to the conclusion of phase 2, will lead to the conclusion of phase 3 as well. Can we atleast agree on that much? That phase 2 and phase 3 will be more related? Whatever marvel has planned for the conclusion of phase 2, what ever events that LEAD up to that conclusion, will ALSO lead up to the conclusion of phase 3. The events. So it probably won't be an appearance. Cause fiege said the events. And to me, that can be thanos, or it can be what you said. But given the fact that the interview was about thanos, I am inclined to think the first

[TacomaTruck90]

Originally Posted by GoldGoblin

I want a new villain,a new threat,with some new Avengers members.If i want to see Loki as the villain I'll just watch Thor or Avengers again.

Im totally with you! however I think the Arc for MCU right now is comsos and Thanos will probally close out the Arc..I think the whole comsic arc will end with that big event in 2017/18 idk i could be wrong just seems there going that route which im perfectly fine with.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

It fits only if that cameo leads to the defeat of thanos/the end of phase 2. HOWEVER, does what we are sayhing about thanos also fit in? It does. Its speculation, but to me, that's what it was.

I could write more, but honestly, I just finished a 5 hour jam session with some buddies, and it was awesome, and im just exhausted, love mi drums

and still, its still a bit different from what he said. To me, he wasn't saying the phase 3 threat will be introduced. Not a cameo. He said the events that will lead to the conclusion of phase 2, will lead to the conclusion of phase 3 as well. Can we atleast agree on that much? That phase 2 and phase 3 will be more related? Whatever marvel has planned for the conclusion of phase 2, what ever events that LEAD up to that conclusion, will ALSO lead up to the conclusion of phase 3. The events. So it probably won't be an appearance. Cause fiege said the events. And to me, that can be thanos, or it can be what you said. But given the fact that the interview was about thanos, I am inclined to think the first

No, we'll really and truly have to agree to disagree. I just do not read the same thing you do when Feige talks about the culmination of Phase II and III. The verbage *may* favor your theory, and it *may* favor my theory. We probably won't know for at least a couple of years. I just wish you guys would quit trying to act like your theories are facts, when they're no more solid than any of my theories.

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

No, we'll really and truly have to agree to disagree. I just do not read the same thing you do when Feige talks about the culmination of Phase II and III. The verbage *may* favor your theory, and it *may* favor my theory. We probably won't know for at least a couple of years. I just wish you guys would quit trying to act like your theories are facts, when they're no more solid than any of my theories.

They aren't. To me that is what they are sounding like. You are doing the same thing, you think your theory makes sense, and that our theory is wrong. I am just trying to prove to you that my theory makes sense. And vice versa for me, my theory isn't any more "wrong" than yours. I get that yours does make sense. Just like mine makes sense. Its speculation. But I am with you, we can just agree to disagree, and that's that. We'll find out in 3 years....ugh christ

[DrCosmic]

I think that the Phase II items in Fury's vault will play into the Phase 2 of films nicely. Perhaps AIM comes to the fore and uses the cosmic-cube related items similarly to how they used the Cosmic Cube... maybe they have synthesized the energy source somehow? That could make room for all sorts of cool craziness from Super-Adaptoid to MODOK to a bunch HYDRA tech to The Wrecking Crew to Magus, all with Thanos in the background like 'Yes, yeeees....' Or not, whatevs.

[jaqua99]

I would bet, considering that they are called the "phase 2" items :P

Hey guys, try to respond to this cause I don't know where to post this question...

but you guys watched the one shot right? Item 47? Do you guys think that those two will be the "stars" of the new shield/marvel show?

It very well could be setting that up

[Whiskey Tango]

Lizzy Caplan has a new show and I thing she said she wasn't involved anyway. Too bad because she's pretty cool.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

I think that the Phase II items in Fury's vault will play into the Phase 2 of films nicely. Perhaps AIM comes to the fore and uses the cosmic-cube related items similarly to how they used the Cosmic Cube... maybe they have synthesized the energy source somehow? That could make room for all sorts of cool craziness from Super-Adaptoid to MODOK to a bunch HYDRA tech to The Wrecking Crew to Magus, all with Thanos in the background like 'Yes, yeeees....' Or not, whatevs.

I agree with this. I think Joss called them "Phase II prototypes" intentionally, and I think that, yes, it means all kinds of hi-tech super-gadgetry manufactured by SHIELD and/or AIM/HYDRA shows up during Phase II films.

[DrCosmic]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

but you guys watched the one shot right? Item 47? Do you guys think that those two will be the "stars" of the new shield/marvel show?

It very well could be setting that up

Yeah, those two actors are otherwise occupied, Item 47 was out before Whedon started developing the TV show, and the casting sheet from a few weeks back doesn't mention anything even remotely similar to their characters.

And I'm glad, Item 47 was way too cheeky and lighthearted for an hour long sci-fi drama, imho. It's fun 10-15 minutes at a time.

[hegemony]

The question I have would be is Thanos going to be the only villain in this? We can assume they're adding more heroes to the Avengers roster, and I'm wondering if there will be enough for each member to actually do something. They had an army to fight in part 1 so everyone got time to shine.

[jaqua99]

I personally don't believe so, assuming my Theory of him being in Phase 3 is correct. However, if he is only going to be in phase 2 now, then no way, there will be no other villains. He can carry a movie himself. If its an infinity gauntlet movie, there is NO need for another villain for him to share the screen with

[GoldGoblin]

1.The first movie had an army of villains for the team to fight.

2.The second movie should have a team of villains that they fight.

3.The third should be a big main villain where he is so bad,that he by himself can take on the Avengers with no help.

You can switch 2 & 3.

[Spider-Vader]

I guess Ant-Man not coming out until AFTER Avengers 2, 110% confirms Thanos as the villain.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by Spider-Vader

I guess Ant-Man not coming out until AFTER Avengers 2, 110% confirms Thanos as the villain.

Yes. If anyone still harbored a lingering doubt.