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#751 | |
Raining hell from above
Join Date: May 2011
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Maybe I'm strange, but when I saw those space whales slamming through buildings and causing them to collapse, I immediately thought that a whole lot of people inside died. Likewise, when Captain America said of people being shot by the soldiers on sky-cycles, "They're like fish in a barrel down there," it was clear that civilians were being slaughtered in the streets. I didn't need to be shown piles of dead bodies to understand what happened, and I assumed (incorrectly) that no one else would, either.
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#752 |
Professor of Power
Join Date: Jun 2011
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I kinda understand the death complaint. Even if you don't see any dead bodies, if you don't see anyone actually get hit, and all the death is implied, it makes the tension a little bit cartoony. That kinda weakens the appeal ever so slightly. It's one thing not to show dead bodies, it's another thing not to show any humans being harmed at all. The implied death was well done, but a few lasers into some crowds, some people falling, something - similar to what we've seen in other big budget PG-13 films - would have made the movie darker and heavier, and I think I would have appreciated that.
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X-Men TV Show Ideas With a Ph.D in Metascience
"Sufficiently understood magic is indistinguishable from science." |
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#753 | |
SHIELD Director Coulson
Join Date: May 2011
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**** "darker and heavier." This is Avengers and Joss Whedon, not TDKR and Chris Nolan.
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#754 |
Professor of Power
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Hmmm... I think there's a lot of middle ground there, don't you? Transformers 3 for instance.
Regardles, imho, it has to be addressed. You can't keep telling stories about thousands of people dying and keep things too light, or it starts to fall apart thematically, I would think.
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X-Men TV Show Ideas With a Ph.D in Metascience
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#755 |
REDACTED
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Maybe they should show a whole pile of dead puppies. Frank Miller would smile.
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#756 | |
SHIELD Director Coulson
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THE COTTON AVENGERS ...They move like slick cotton on oil. ---Echostation, 3/18/2014 |
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#757 |
You! You're not Sylvia!
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Unless they say otherwise, like it was evacuated beforehand or something, if an entire building gets decimated it's assumed almost everyone in the thing is dead.
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#758 | |
Professor of Power
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What Star Wars did, was they killed a few people, I think Obi Wan killed that guy in the bar, and Han shot Greedo, and then you got Owen and Beru's skeleton's smouldering, it addresses the dark themes of the storyline quite well, instead of leaving this big giant chasm between the visuals and the themes/story by having nearly ALL of the death implied. Concrete death was so scarce in Avengers, some people even believe the one person we saw get stabbed through the chest and bleed (as LMDs are prone to do) wasn't dead at all, before any other evidence of him being alive existed! But again, I'm glad your telepathy is working. I always wonder about Marvel's deepest intentions. I'm usually distracted by their actions, in which showing gruesome deaths of numerous aliens is just fine.
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X-Men TV Show Ideas With a Ph.D in Metascience
"Sufficiently understood magic is indistinguishable from science." |
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#759 | |||
Raining hell from above
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The destruction and loss of life would have been akin to the city being hit my a massive earthquake or buildings being bombed. The invasion happened in the middle of a business day, without warning, so the buildings were full and initially there was no time for people to flee. In those circumstances thousands would die within minutes. Then when the survivors and those in buildings spared the first wave of attacks had the chance to flee, there were hordes of Chitauri waiting to slaughter them in the streets. If something like that happened in reality it would be a perfect storm of destruction.
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#760 | ||
Raining hell from above
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In The Avengers, Loki literally drilled a man's eye out of its socket while the victim writhed in agony, he killed a bunch of SHIELD agents when he first arrived and even more during the tunnel chase, Hawkeye shot guards down in cold blood, there were several brutal physical confrontations (Natasha/thugs, Natasha/Hulk, Natasha/Barton, Thor/Hulk, Thor/Iron Man). Torture was also discussed as an acceptable means of extracting information from Loki. (As Whedon said in his commentary [paraphrasing]: "Here's the scene where the heroes talk about torturing the villain that's in every superhero movie -- oh, wait, that's not true.") Two of the heroes are trained assassins, one of whom apparently killed a child and set fire to a hospital. You want dark themes? The Avengers definitely has them. You obviously want a level of graphically and perhaps gratuitously explicit carnage that simply is neither possible nor desirable in a PG-13 rated film. This was The Avengers, not Saving Private Ryan or Platoon. Aliens* were shown dying in graphic ways, but then the MPAA treats what it terms "sci-fi violence" much more leniently than it does the more realistic, human-on-human kind. Where civilian casualties were concerned, the filmmakers relied on the audience's ability to understand what was going on without needing to see details that would only have been appropriate in an R-rated film. In other words, they trusted in the willing suspension of disbelief, that factor that allows us to buy into a movie universe comprised of gods and monsters and people who live with gigantic holes in their sternums (Stark) and survive massive doses of radiation. * I was referring to the aliens in The Avengers, rather than to the film series of that name.
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#761 | |
Professor of Power
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X-Men TV Show Ideas With a Ph.D in Metascience
"Sufficiently understood magic is indistinguishable from science." Last edited by DrCosmic; 10-14-2012 at 09:36 PM. |
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#762 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Apr 2012
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The level of graphic violence was exactly what it had to be in order to get a pg-13 rating. I loved TDK, but the laughably bloodless violence was one of my least favorite things about the movie. Same with TDKR. But I understood that it was a trade-off that allowed for pretty much limitless violence/bodycount.
Maybe a subtitle explaining that "a whole lot of people just died" after each scene of disaster would remove any ambiguities. Last edited by Joeyjojo72; 10-14-2012 at 10:06 PM. |
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#763 |
REDACTED
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Did we not see Hawkeye kill some guards? Did we not see Loki cut some dude's eye out?
Star Wars didn't have more on-screen death than Avengers. Neither featured dead, civilian bodies flailing about. If you want that I assume you don't understand that children are part of the intended audience. |
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#764 | |
SHIELD Director Coulson
Join Date: May 2011
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Everybody in this thread except you understands that Avengers is a four-color comic book movie, and that it showed the same level of personal violence as Star Wars, while making the mass casualties of warfare implicit, just like Star Wars. Avengers would not have been "a better movie" with gore and blood and horrific deaths splattered across the screen.
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THE COTTON AVENGERS ...They move like slick cotton on oil. ---Echostation, 3/18/2014 |
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#765 |
I want to be Kate Bishop
Join Date: Aug 2011
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I'm quite sad that the comics are beggining to be based on the movies rather than the other way round...
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"Turkey sucks and you suck, and who made you boss?" |
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#766 | |
....I need a horse!
Join Date: Jan 2012
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#767 | |
Professor of Power
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But if this topic is going on too long for you, feel free to change the subject.
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X-Men TV Show Ideas With a Ph.D in Metascience
"Sufficiently understood magic is indistinguishable from science." Last edited by DrCosmic; 10-15-2012 at 01:00 PM. |
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#768 | ||
Professor of Power
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Again, it's understandable, not wanting to tell the story of a pyrric victory, but it's not something that was very compelling to me. The case in point was the ending montage, yes, we can guess a lot of people died by the candlelight vigils, but the core message was one of victory and hope. Put the natural consequences out of your mind. It's a creative choice, probably the right one in this case, but it does create an unanswered dichotomy. Quote:
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#769 |
Who's Bad?
Join Date: Nov 2005
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I didn't go to Avengers to see innocents get fried. An army was attacking the city, **** was hitting the fan. I didn't need a body count or see people dying to know that aliens attacking New York City is, all-in-all, a bad thing.
I don't get how this is even a discussion...? Are we really at a place in society where we need to visually see brutal violence to understand when things are bad for the heroes? I can honestly say that not once in Avengers, or any MCU film for instance, did I think "damn, I wish I could just see some dead people! Then, I'll believe this!"
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#770 |
REDACTED
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This might be the worst "discussion" in the history of SHH. And that's saying something.
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#771 | |
SHIELD Director Coulson
Join Date: May 2011
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![]() You're just circumlocuting now, and it ain't pretty. Why don't you tell us *exactly* what you could have seen to make it give you the proper level of violence and gore to be satisfied?
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THE COTTON AVENGERS ...They move like slick cotton on oil. ---Echostation, 3/18/2014 |
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#772 | |
Purple Kang, Purple Kang
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#773 |
REDACTED
Join Date: Mar 2005
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I can't, I just can't
![]() Please, subject change Do we think Thor will wear his helmet? |
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#774 |
Purple Kang, Purple Kang
Join Date: Jul 2004
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We topped Menapaunster in just one week! *High five!*
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#775 |
REDACTED
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Nah, the previous high point was Cap's hobbit feet
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