The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > Superman > Man of Steel

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-06-2012, 09:12 PM   #51
SuperFerret
This guy
 
SuperFerret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: SuperFerret's Shoebox of Solitude
Posts: 33,657
Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

"Thank god you're alright." is a common saying. One need not be religious to say it or mean it. Clark seems to have recognized Kryptonian gods (having peppered his speech with sayings such as "Great Rao"), but was likely raised as some sort of Christian due to his upbringing in rural Middle America.

__________________
I don't give a ferret.
SuperFerret is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2012, 11:27 PM   #52
manofsteel4life
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,459
Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

right

__________________
Quote:
As the poet John Dryden once had it: "Beware the fury of a patient man." Or Batman.
manofsteel4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2012, 02:38 PM   #53
The Guard
Side-Kick
 
The Guard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 25,804
Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

If we're getting technical, the Superman in the comics knows full well there's a God. He's encountered several versions of The Spectre, worked alongside the fallen angel Zauriel, has been to Heaven and Hell, and knows all about The Presence/God in the DC Universe.

__________________
Writer and Lyricist of GOTHAM'S KNIGHT: THE BATMAN MUSICAL

And if I'm right
The future's looking bright
A symbol in the skies at night
The Guard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2012, 02:58 PM   #54
\S/JcDc\S/
Panned User
 
\S/JcDc\S/'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,397
Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

This thread gets made every 1.3 years

__________________
JcDc-- My original join date was: 05-07-2003 --Time flies, and so should Superman!
\S/JcDc\S/ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2012, 10:59 AM   #55
manofsteel4life
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,459
Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Guard View Post
If we're getting technical, the Superman in the comics knows full well there's a God. He's encountered several versions of The Spectre, worked alongside the fallen angel Zauriel, has been to Heaven and Hell, and knows all about The Presence/God in the DC Universe.
IMO if that's made aware in films that Superman knows there is a God maybe that would lesson the Jesus comparisons....if anything that would maybe make him more relatable to us.....key word...maybe

__________________
Quote:
As the poet John Dryden once had it: "Beware the fury of a patient man." Or Batman.
manofsteel4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2012, 11:05 AM   #56
Krumm
Beer Snob
 
Krumm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,948
Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by manofsteel4life View Post
IMO if that's made aware in films that Superman knows there is a God maybe that would lesson the Jesus comparisons....if anything that would maybe make him more relatable to us.....key word...maybe
Not sure about that. People would just think, "Well, this guy can just don anything can't he? He can even talk to God!"

The best way to keep him relatable is to keep him as lost as we are regardless of the presence of the metaphor.


Last edited by Krumm; 09-08-2012 at 11:08 AM.
Krumm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2012, 11:27 AM   #57
LordofhouseEl
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,106
Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Guard View Post
If we're getting technical, the Superman in the comics knows full well there's a God. He's encountered several versions of The Spectre, worked alongside the fallen angel Zauriel, has been to Heaven and Hell, and knows all about The Presence/God in the DC Universe.
Not anymore..............sadly.

LordofhouseEl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2012, 11:51 AM   #58
SuperFerret
This guy
 
SuperFerret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: SuperFerret's Shoebox of Solitude
Posts: 33,657
Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by manofsteel4life View Post
IMO if that's made aware in films that Superman knows there is a God maybe that would lesson the Jesus comparisons....if anything that would maybe make him more relatable to us.....key word...maybe
If that's made aware in films it would strengthen it. There's no place for acknowledging God in a Superman movie.

__________________
I don't give a ferret.
SuperFerret is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2012, 12:16 PM   #59
manofsteel4life
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,459
Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

Well I didn't mean him crying on his knees at night praying, just maybe a comment or something just acknowledging God. I would prefer they avoid it altogether as well...just saying if they did, I think that would be a good way of doing it.

__________________
Quote:
As the poet John Dryden once had it: "Beware the fury of a patient man." Or Batman.
manofsteel4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2012, 01:51 PM   #60
SuperFerret
This guy
 
SuperFerret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: SuperFerret's Shoebox of Solitude
Posts: 33,657
Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

Depending on how the comment is worded, it'll either be weird and unnecessary or completely glossed over. Sayings like "thank god" or "goddamn" are part of the general lexicon and don't point to any sort of acknowledging of a higher power.

__________________
I don't give a ferret.
SuperFerret is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2012, 04:40 PM   #61
Charlie The Red
Turkish Gold 100s
 
Charlie The Red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The Firmament
Posts: 987
Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

Based on the footage I've seen from Comic-con, it definitely looks like they're going that route.

I once saw a t-shirt that read "Jesus will return, and we'll kill him again."

The sad fact is that with our society the way it is, if Christ did return, most of his Christians would think he was a nutcase and have him locked up. Once he started performing miracles, our government would probably send the military to take him out....

...similar to what I'm seeing in the Comic-con footage of Superman. If any messiah/superhero were to make an appearance, they'd be public enemy number one.

Until Satan/Zod shows the world who the real enemy is, of course

__________________

Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementiae fuit
Charlie The Red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2012, 10:49 PM   #62
GeekSummit
Newbie First Class
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 18
Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

Well…. It's safe to say that Superman has been THE superhero most equated to the Messiah figure relation. I don't think there's any danger is walking down that road again. I do think this movie will be a little more realistic in how the world will accept this Invinsible Flying Man. We would most definitely want him under some containment until we understood that he was no threat to humanity and that there weren't thousands more like him. So I don't think it s a persecution thing but I think the Messiah thing will keep coming up anytime you bring up Superman.

The Messiah thing is one more contemporary way to dissect the Superman story but all these SUPER HUMAN beings have always been closer equated to the classic Greek Gods and Demi Gods. Flash/Mercury Superman/Hercules Batman??? Not so much…But a lot of those DemiGods had the same origins of being sent to aid mankind by their Diety Parent(S).

In that way you could say that Jesus may have just been a Hercules Metaphor… It all depends on how you like to cook it.

GeekSummit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2012, 11:09 PM   #63
StarvingArtist
Side-Kick
 
StarvingArtist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,600
Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

Was Superman originally conceived as a Jesus metaphor? No.
Over the years, has Superman been painted as one? Sure.
Should he continue to be painted as one and is it acceptable for him to be a vehicle for Christianity? Hell no.

I admit my bias in stating I am not a Christian.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Llama_Shepherd View Post
Batman is Batman because of his bat motif's. Take them away and he's just Manman.

Last edited by StarvingArtist; 09-15-2012 at 11:40 PM.
StarvingArtist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2012, 10:32 AM   #64
DrCosmic
Professor of Power
 
DrCosmic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: In the Moment
Posts: 5,953
Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarvingArtist View Post
Was Superman originally conceived as a Jesus metaphor? No.
Over the years, has Superman been painted as one? Sure.
Should he continue to be painted as one and is it acceptable for him to be a vehicle for Christianity? Hell no.

I admit my bias in stating I am not a Christian.
I am a Christian, and I'm inclined to agree. There is a certain amount of Jesus-comparison that's unavoidable, because he is a messiah-type character through and through, since he was originally conceived as a Moses metaphor, who is indeed a type of Jesus, and currently the most popular messiah is Jesus, so that comparison will continue to happen, it will always be available for commentary and analysis of the philosophies that Superman media portray.

And while it's great to use Superman to explore philosophical issues, when those views are exclusively Christian, it dilutes the actual Christian messiah, Jesus as some sort of fisticuffer, which he isn't, or Superman into a pacifist, which he also isn't. There are similar themes but there simply is not parity. If we make Superman too Christ-like, especially in the modern Catholic-inspired vision of Christ we end up with a very moody actionless Superman, like Superman Returns. No one likes that, even Christians. That's not the way to go with Superman, imho.

Those are my thoughts on the matter, with admitted bias, of course. "Hey! You got Superman in my Jesus!" "No, you got Jesus in my Superman!"

__________________
WW TV Show Ideas - X-Men TV Show Ideas -
With a Ph.D in Metascience
"Sufficiently understood magic is indistinguishable from science."
DrCosmic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2012, 11:11 AM   #65
Krumm
Beer Snob
 
Krumm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,948
Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrCosmic View Post
I am a Christian, and I'm inclined to agree. There is a certain amount of Jesus-comparison that's unavoidable, because he is a messiah-type character through and through, since he was originally conceived as a Moses metaphor, who is indeed a type of Jesus, and currently the most popular messiah is Jesus, so that comparison will continue to happen, it will always be available for commentary and analysis of the philosophies that Superman media portray.

And while it's great to use Superman to explore philosophical issues, when those views are exclusively Christian, it dilutes the actual Christian messiah, Jesus as some sort of fisticuffer, which he isn't, or Superman into a pacifist, which he also isn't. There are similar themes but there simply is not parity. If we make Superman too Christ-like, especially in the modern Catholic-inspired vision of Christ we end up with a very moody actionless Superman, like Superman Returns. No one likes that, even Christians. That's not the way to go with Superman, imho.

Those are my thoughts on the matter, with admitted bias, of course. "Hey! You got Superman in my Jesus!" "No, you got Jesus in my Superman!"
That is the right way to look at it. It isn't soooo much that Superman is a Jesus metaphor, though there are times when that is true, it's more that he is a Messiah, of which there are many.

Krumm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2012, 12:39 AM   #66
Lead Cenobite
Exquisitely Empty
 
Lead Cenobite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: US
Posts: 2,967
Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

Whether or not there are metaphors, I want Superman to be treated as just as important within that fictional universe, like mythology come to life.

__________________
Superman with realistic physics isn't Superman.
Lead Cenobite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 09:52 AM   #67
Dark Raven
The Gal from Themysicra
 
Dark Raven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tall and tan and young and lovely
Posts: 19,034
Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrCosmic View Post
I am a Christian, and I'm inclined to agree. There is a certain amount of Jesus-comparison that's unavoidable, because he is a messiah-type character through and through, since he was originally conceived as a Moses metaphor, who is indeed a type of Jesus, and currently the most popular messiah is Jesus, so that comparison will continue to happen, it will always be available for commentary and analysis of the philosophies that Superman media portray.

And while it's great to use Superman to explore philosophical issues, when those views are exclusively Christian, it dilutes the actual Christian messiah, Jesus as some sort of fisticuffer, which he isn't, or Superman into a pacifist, which he also isn't. There are similar themes but there simply is not parity. If we make Superman too Christ-like, especially in the modern Catholic-inspired vision of Christ we end up with a very moody actionless Superman, like Superman Returns. No one likes that, even Christians. That's not the way to go with Superman, imho.

Those are my thoughts on the matter, with admitted bias, of course. "Hey! You got Superman in my Jesus!" "No, you got Jesus in my Superman!"
Superman is admittedly a metaphor for Jesus, but an imperfect metaphor of course. Also, if you look at the history of the way Superman has been portrayed over the years, it kind of mirrors the way theologians have attempted to think about Christology and figure out the incarnation and how Jesus can be fully God and fully man.

So if you look at George Reeves's and Christopher Reeve's interpretation of Superman where the emphasis is on Superman as the main character and Clark Kent as the disguise, this mirrors a docetic interpretation of Jesus where some (such as the Gnostics and also other early church figures who thought along a similar line) believed that Jesus only appeared or seemed to be like a man. In that line of thinking, Jesus as God merely disguised himself as a man but wasn't truly human. The divine aspect had the greater emphasis here.

However, when you get to portrayals like Lois & Clark or Smallville, the emphasis is on Clark Kent as the true person, and Superman is just a persona or costume that he puts on. This follows those types of Christologies where there is more of an emphasis on Jesus' humanity and where he's almost seen as a normal man endowed with divine powers (or adopted as the Son) but not truly God.

Neither of these interpretations are accurate to the accepted doctrine of the incarnation but are definitely helpful in enabling people to think about these issues, and Superman himself is a really good teaching tool on this subject.

__________________
Quote:
Anne Hathaway: "You did not just ask me that!! What a forward young man you are!!! My goodness!!"
Dark Raven is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 01:58 PM   #68
StarvingArtist
Side-Kick
 
StarvingArtist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,600
Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Raven View Post
Superman is admittedly a metaphor for Jesus, but an imperfect metaphor of course. Also, if you look at the history of the way Superman has been portrayed over the years, it kind of mirrors the way theologians have attempted to think about Christology and figure out the incarnation and how Jesus can be fully God and fully man.

So if you look at George Reeves's and Christopher Reeve's interpretation of Superman where the emphasis is on Superman as the main character and Clark Kent as the disguise, this mirrors a docetic interpretation of Jesus where some (such as the Gnostics and also other early church figures who thought along a similar line) believed that Jesus only appeared or seemed to be like a man. In that line of thinking, Jesus as God merely disguised himself as a man but wasn't truly human. The divine aspect had the greater emphasis here.

However, when you get to portrayals like Lois & Clark or Smallville, the emphasis is on Clark Kent as the true person, and Superman is just a persona or costume that he puts on. This follows those types of Christologies where there is more of an emphasis on Jesus' humanity and where he's almost seen as a normal man endowed with divine powers (or adopted as the Son) but not truly God.

Neither of these interpretations are accurate to the accepted doctrine of the incarnation but are definitely helpful in enabling people to think about these issues, and Superman himself is a really good teaching tool on this subject.
Superman was never intended to be a metaphor for Jesus, but he has been depicted as one. A mistake in my opinion.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Llama_Shepherd View Post
Batman is Batman because of his bat motif's. Take them away and he's just Manman.
StarvingArtist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 04:39 PM   #69
Stoic
Ron Swanson Protege
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Georgia
Posts: 173
Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

Superman has the flexibility and ambiguity to be a Jewish allegory, a Christ-like figure and a Secular messiah. It is in the eye of the beholder what Superman stands for. Being that his creators and most of his early writers were Jewish and that may or may not have had influence in the crafting of his story.

However, he represents the best in all of us, and religious and non religious people will try to align the hero to their beliefs. It is an unintended consequence of having a universally recognized hero figure like Superman.

This is well plotted out and commented on in the "Superman: The High Flying History of the World's Most Enduring Hero" book by Larry Tye. Most of you know, like myself, know the history, but the book is well done and I enjoyed the historical account of the creation and history of the character.

Stoic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 04:42 PM   #70
StarvingArtist
Side-Kick
 
StarvingArtist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,600
Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoic View Post
Superman has the flexibility and ambiguity to be a Jewish allegory, a Christ-like figure and a Secular messiah. It is in the eye of the beholder what Superman stands for. Being that his creators and most of his early writers were Jewish and that may or may not have had influence in the crafting of his story.

However, he represents the best in all of us, and religious and non religious people will try to align the hero to their beliefs. It is an unintended consequence of having a universally recognized hero figure like Superman.

This is well plotted out and commented on in the "Superman: The High Flying History of the World's Most Enduring Hero" book by Larry Tye. Most of you know, like myself, know the history, but the book is well done and I enjoyed the historical account of the creation and history of the character.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Llama_Shepherd View Post
Batman is Batman because of his bat motif's. Take them away and he's just Manman.
StarvingArtist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 05:48 PM   #71
gkokujin
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: in a house
Posts: 2,445
Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

meh

__________________
If you are offended, remain offended.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateJustin View Post
no kid in fifteen years will recall what was going on in the haze of animated card game shows where cat faced japanese children yelled annoyingly and danced around and shot mushrooms out of their mouths.

Last edited by gkokujin; 10-22-2012 at 06:25 PM. Reason: meh
gkokujin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 05:57 PM   #72
Lead Cenobite
Exquisitely Empty
 
Lead Cenobite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: US
Posts: 2,967
Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarvingArtist View Post
Superman was never intended to be a metaphor for Jesus, but he has been depicted as one. A mistake in my opinion.
Why? It's a metaphor, it's not like they literally changed his name to Jesus and turned Krypton into Heaven. I never understood why this sticks in people's craws so much.

__________________
Superman with realistic physics isn't Superman.
Lead Cenobite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 06:02 PM   #73
747
Fanboy rivalry? Yawn.
 
747's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Sweden
Posts: 4,036
Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoic View Post
Superman has the flexibility and ambiguity to be a Jewish allegory, a Christ-like figure and a Secular messiah. It is in the eye of the beholder what Superman stands for.
Exactly. Superman is Superman first most and can mean a lot of different things to different people.

Personally I'm an atheist but still love the christ-like allegories because they are great themes and stories that can communicate a lot of interesting things

There is no yes or no to this question really.

747 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 06:06 PM   #74
Lead Cenobite
Exquisitely Empty
 
Lead Cenobite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: US
Posts: 2,967
Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

I'm the same. I'm agnostic and religious parallels don't bother me as long as it's not preachy. There's nothing preachy about Superman: The Movie.

__________________
Superman with realistic physics isn't Superman.
Lead Cenobite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 08:45 PM   #75
Baramos
Side-Kick
 
Baramos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 818
Default Re: Is Superman A Jesus Metaphor?

The Moses metaphor makes more sense to me, at least in regards to the sending him away in a "basket" (rocket in the case of Superman) Especially in regards to the creators who probably weren't thinking in Christian terms, they were both Jewish.

On the other hand, it can be a Jesus metaphor if you want it to be. That's how metaphors/symbolism work, part of it is the interpretation of the reader.

Baramos is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:19 AM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.