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Old 10-17-2012, 08:28 AM   #51
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Default Re: Do you think the Red Skull will return?

Really a shame he doesnt want to come back, he is a great actor but the writing for RS in the first movie gave him very little to do, I thought the character was written very poorly, but Weaving did the best with what he could.

However, because of the heavy make up and prothetics, I think this is one case were a re-cast wouldnt be too bad, as someone else mentioned Christophe Waltz would be perfect for RS.

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Old 10-17-2012, 08:55 AM   #52
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Default Re: Do you think the Red Skull will return?

I can see why he wouldn't be thrilled to return. I have to admit: Captain America was the worst and most boring of the solo films. And Cap was my favorite character in the Avengers, too.

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Old 10-17-2012, 01:06 PM   #53
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Default Re: Do you think the Red Skull will return?

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I can see why he wouldn't be thrilled to return. I have to admit: Captain America was the worst and most boring of the solo films. And Cap was my favorite character in the Avengers, too.
Yeah, I thought the Golden Age angle would be interesting and pulp-y, a la Indiana Jones or Rocketeer. But it was just....by the numbers.

I'm pretty sure that CATWS is going to be miles ahead of CATFA, though, and will generate a lot more audience. Let's face it, when it comes to fans of Cap, the vast majority of us know him primarily as "The Man Out of Time" living in our era instead of the Golden Age WWII Cap (who was a one-dimensional propaganda throwback).

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Old 10-18-2012, 11:13 AM   #54
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I can see why he wouldn't be thrilled to return. I have to admit: Captain America was the worst and most boring of the solo films. And Cap was my favorite character in the Avengers, too.
To each his own. I thought it was the best pure film of the solo movies. Best cinematography by a mile (and I'd argue, still the best pure shooting of any MCU film), best script, best plotting. Great, old school, pulpy, sci-fi feel, and tons of heart.

Of all the sequel films in Phase 2, I think Captain America: The Winter Soldier has the worst shot of besting it's predecessor, with Thor: The Dark World having the best.

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Old 10-18-2012, 12:11 PM   #55
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To each his own. I thought it was the best pure film of the solo movies. Best cinematography by a mile (and I'd argue, still the best pure shooting of any MCU film), best script, best plotting. Great, old school, pulpy, sci-fi feel, and tons of heart.

Of all the sequel films in Phase 2, I think Captain America: The Winter Soldier has the worst shot of besting it's predecessor, with Thor: The Dark World having the best.
I think TWS has a great shot at beating TWA....it's Cap in the modern world, it's the Cap that the vast majority of us know (has anyone actually *read* Golden Age Cap, truthfully? Or at least the WWII-era Invaders? I doubt more than a handful of folks have).

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Old 10-18-2012, 12:48 PM   #56
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I think TWS has a great shot at beating TWA....it's Cap in the modern world, it's the Cap that the vast majority of us know (has anyone actually *read* Golden Age Cap, truthfully? Or at least the WWII-era Invaders? I doubt more than a handful of folks have).
Captain America is also a comic book franchise that lives firmly in two eras. No, many of us haven't actually read the Simon/ Kirby issues, but Stan Lee, Steve Englehardt, John Byrne, Ed Brubaker and many other Captain America writers have set entire issues and some even arcs in the golden age, with many of Captain America's villains from the silver age and beyond beating rooted in his World War II past (Baron Strucker, Baron Blood, Arnim Zola, Both Baron Zemos, Aleksander Lukin, Winter Soldier, Grand Director etc)

When you're making a movie about the most flashback heavy character in comic books, it's easy to make a period piece with elements that are familiar to the fan base. Who hasn't read some permutation of Cap's origin? It's referenced by EVERY Cap writer. Johntson isn't the most consistent director, but he was born to make Captain America, and it benefited from his eye. It was exactly what a Captain America film set in the 40s should be. Pulpy fun.

The source material maybe more familiar to us, but I have very little faith in this directoral team's ability to nail this film. A bad film based on a recent acclaimed arc won't make it better than CA: TWS, it will make it Marvel Studios' Green Lantern.

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Old 10-18-2012, 01:20 PM   #57
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Default Re: Do you think the Red Skull will return?

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To each his own. I thought it was the best pure film of the solo movies. Best cinematography by a mile (and I'd argue, still the best pure shooting of any MCU film), best script, best plotting. Great, old school, pulpy, sci-fi feel, and tons of heart.

Of all the sequel films in Phase 2, I think Captain America: The Winter Soldier has the worst shot of besting it's predecessor, with Thor: The Dark World having the best.
I feel the same way.

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Old 10-18-2012, 03:55 PM   #58
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Default Re: Do you think the Red Skull will return?

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Marvel is not doing reboots. They've already stated that they will recast characters as need be, but plan on continuing in the same cinematic universe for a long, long time.
I don't mean reboot in the reboot sense but there'll come a time wen different actors pay these parts ad that for me is when they should recast Red Skull.


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I can see why he wouldn't be thrilled to return. I have to admit: Captain America was the worst and most boring of the solo films. And Cap was my favorite character in the Avengers, too.
I disagree for me it was the best of the solo movies

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Old 10-18-2012, 05:39 PM   #59
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Captain America is also a comic book franchise that lives firmly in two eras. No, many of us haven't actually read the Simon/ Kirby issues, but Stan Lee, Steve Englehardt, John Byrne, Ed Brubaker and many other Captain America writers have set entire issues and some even arcs in the golden age, with many of Captain America's villains from the silver age and beyond beating rooted in his World War II past (Baron Strucker, Baron Blood, Arnim Zola, Both Baron Zemos, Aleksander Lukin, Winter Soldier, Grand Director etc)

When you're making a movie about the most flashback heavy character in comic books, it's easy to make a period piece with elements that are familiar to the fan base. Who hasn't read some permutation of Cap's origin? It's referenced by EVERY Cap writer. Johntson isn't the most consistent director, but he was born to make Captain America, and it benefited from his eye. It was exactly what a Captain America film set in the 40s should be. Pulpy fun.

The source material maybe more familiar to us, but I have very little faith in this directoral team's ability to nail this film. A bad film based on a recent acclaimed arc won't make it better than CA: TWS, it will make it Marvel Studios' Green Lantern.
Green Lantern? Seriously?
That's a bit harsh.
I wasn't over the moon when I heard they hired the guys from "Community" for this either, but I have far more confidence in them than Ryan Reynolds and Matthew Vaughn, and far more confidence in the story than Green Lantern.

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Old 10-18-2012, 06:07 PM   #60
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Green Lantern? Seriously?
That's a bit harsh.
I wasn't over the moon when I heard they hired the guys from "Community" for this either, but I have far more confidence in them than Ryan Reynolds and Matthew Vaughn, and far more confidence in the story than Green Lantern.
It probably won't be that bad. I just don't see it topping the first movie.

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Old 10-18-2012, 07:50 PM   #61
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It probably won't be that bad. I just don't see it topping the first movie.
Eh, it's gotta. Cap gets a post-Avengers boost, plus it's modern-day Cap instead of "old folks" Cap, that the kiddies didn't enjoy.

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Old 10-19-2012, 12:53 PM   #62
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Eh, it's gotta. Cap gets a post-Avengers boost, plus it's modern-day Cap instead of "old folks" Cap, that the kiddies didn't enjoy.
Or from another perspective, they're throwing out what made Captain America a special movie, and churning out a more typical modern blockbuster.

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Old 10-19-2012, 01:17 PM   #63
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Default Re: Do you think the Red Skull will return?

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Or from another perspective, they're throwing out what made Captain America a special movie, and churning out a more typical modern blockbuster.
Don't forget Whedon will be involved, though in an advisory role, and so I'm sure he'll definitely be more than willing to give advice and make sure these directors don't stray so far off the path that they don't keep what makes Cap, Cap. Both as a movie and the character himself.

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Old 10-19-2012, 03:37 PM   #64
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Eh we'll see. Until we see some footage or something, I won't get too worried.

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Old 10-20-2012, 07:59 PM   #65
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Or from another perspective, they're throwing out what made Captain America a special movie, and churning out a more typical modern blockbuster.
No offense, but I thought the Captain America movie was a typical modern action film, it was a little too PC and I think the changes from the comics were made in regarding marketing concerns, rather then plot concerns. I thought the first Captain America movie was a bit toothless, Captain America in the comics would have some social commentary, the movie didn't really have that. That's why I just didn't like movie Red Skull, in the comics his motive is hatred, his power lust comes in second that. In the movie he was just power mad and lost his hatred, his grudge against the world, it made him less interesting and less of an interesting foil for Captain America.

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Old 10-21-2012, 04:34 PM   #66
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I agree that he should be recast for CA2, but I also think he should not make a "true" appearance in the movie. That is to say, I think the whole "Red Skull disguised as a higher-up government official" angle might work fairly well. They could introduce a new character in the film that is ultimately revealed in CA3 (or the end of CA2) to have been Red Skull all along with a new mask.

For CA2, though, I'd much rather the main villain be someone like Zola or Zemo. In fact, if Zola ended up making another appearance (which is a possibility, given the android blueprint easter egg and Zola's "This energy we have collected could power my designs...all my designs..." comment), and it is revealed that Zola is behind TWS's appearance: it'd potentially make for very nice flow and continuity between the two movies.

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Old 10-21-2012, 05:51 PM   #67
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I agree that he should be recast for CA2, but I also think he should not make a "true" appearance in the movie
Like in CAPTAIN AMERICA?

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Old 10-22-2012, 09:51 AM   #68
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Yeah, I thought the Golden Age angle would be interesting and pulp-y, a la Indiana Jones or Rocketeer. But it was just....by the numbers.

I'm pretty sure that CATWS is going to be miles ahead of CATFA, though, and will generate a lot more audience. Let's face it, when it comes to fans of Cap, the vast majority of us know him primarily as "The Man Out of Time" living in our era instead of the Golden Age WWII Cap (who was a one-dimensional propaganda throwback).
Well my DAD, who I posted about finally seeing the First Avenger, loved everything BUT the "RAY GUNS" basically if you take out the Tesseract he would have LOVED the film and he's 84 and grew up reading the original books.
Personally I loved First Avenger as much as Thor, but I've been a fan of both for YEARS

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Old 10-22-2012, 10:51 AM   #69
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No offense, but I thought the Captain America movie was a typical modern action film.
It was clearly part of an old school style of film making. Indiana Jones, Star Wars, The Rocketeer, Jurassic Park. It was nothing like a Transformers film, or a Fast and Furious film.

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Old 10-22-2012, 12:51 PM   #70
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It was clearly part of an old school style of film making. Indiana Jones, Star Wars, The Rocketeer, Jurassic Park. It was nothing like a Transformers film, or a Fast and Furious film.
I like those better, because I think they took more risks and were less PC then Captain America. Indiana Jones had actual Nazis in it, Captain America barely had any Nazis in it. Indiana Jones felt like the 1930s, with one or two fantastical elements thrown in, Captain America never left like its was in WWII.

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Old 10-22-2012, 02:09 PM   #71
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I like those better, because I think they took more risks and were less PC then Captain America. Indiana Jones had actual Nazis in it, Captain America barely had any Nazis in it. Indiana Jones felt like the 1930s, with one or two fantastical elements thrown in, Captain America never left like its was in WWII.
Captain America had Hydra in it, something that's actually relevant to Marvel Cinematic Universe, and has history in Marvel comics. This is ultimately, a superhero movie. I don't see why it was so important to politicize Captain America.

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Old 10-22-2012, 02:39 PM   #72
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Captain America had Hydra in it, something that's actually relevant to Marvel Cinematic Universe, and has history in Marvel comics. This is ultimately, a superhero movie. I don't see why it was so important to politicize Captain America.
Because Captain America has dealt with politics since the 70s, with name like Captain America you can't avoid politics. I'm not suggesting the movie should have been a giant soap box, but it should have dealt with some of the real events of WWII. Also I don't presenting the Nazis in a bad light is a political message many people would disagree with nowadays. Look at the old Golden Age Captain America comics, tons of Nazis, no Hydra agents.

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Old 10-22-2012, 03:23 PM   #73
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I like those better, because I think they took more risks and were less PC then Captain America. Indiana Jones had actual Nazis in it, Captain America barely had any Nazis in it. Indiana Jones felt like the 1930s, with one or two fantastical elements thrown in, Captain America never left like its was in WWII.
Gotta agree.
CATFA felt like a de-fanged attempt at a pulp cliffhanger serial. The thing that Lucas and Spielberg had going for them was an actual sense of wonder, of fun, of roguish and likeable heroes involved in big, brawling and sprawling set pieces. CATFA was just about a nice guy who got superpowers and fast-forwarded through a strange and dull side-pocket of WWII.

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Old 10-24-2012, 06:58 AM   #74
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Because Captain America has dealt with politics since the 70s, with name like Captain America you can't avoid politics. I'm not suggesting the movie should have been a giant soap box, but it should have dealt with some of the real events of WWII. Also I don't presenting the Nazis in a bad light is a political message many people would disagree with nowadays. Look at the old Golden Age Captain America comics, tons of Nazis, no Hydra agents.
But, Hydra is a more important element to Marvel than Nazis are. Hydra has a future in Marvel sequels to build off of now, and that goes a long way.

I don't see why people are so hung up on the Nazi thing.

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Old 10-24-2012, 11:09 AM   #75
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But, Hydra is a more important element to Marvel than Nazis are. Hydra has a future in Marvel sequels to build off of now, and that goes a long way.

I don't see why people are so hung up on the Nazi thing.
Well, I think they should of combined Nazi's and Hydra better. Red Skull was a Nazi, maybe they shouldn't have made him turn on the Nazi's and had them more included.

The reason it's so important is because WWII is very important to the character of Captain America, and it felt like they just blew past it with out giving it the proper attention it needed for the character and for his development.

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