Do you think the Red Skull will return?

[Spider-Fan]

Originally Posted by peterparker0077

Well, I think they should of combined Nazi's and Hydra better. Red Skull was a Nazi, maybe they shouldn't have made him turn on the Nazi's and had them more included.

The reason it's so important is because WWII is very important to the character of Captain America, and it felt like they just blew past it with out giving it the proper attention it needed for the character and for his development.

Red Skull's defection was a tool to show how Red Skull is a dark mirror to Steve Roger's (the frustrations of both with their superior's led to their defection...in Cap's case, save the 107th, and Skull's to pursue his own goals). Had the Nazi's been more incorporated as the film was structured, the mirror parallels would have been decreased. I felt the Red Skull was done very effectively in the film, myself.

[peterparker0077]

Originally Posted by Spider-Fan

Red Skull's defection was a tool to show how Red Skull is a dark mirror to Steve Roger's (the frustrations of both with their superior's led to their defection...in Cap's case, save the 107th, and Skull's to pursue his own goals). Had the Nazi's been more incorporated as the film was structured, the mirror parallels would have been decreased. I felt the Red Skull was done very effectively in the film, myself.

I understand that, but as I said, they could of incorporated them better. I also think Skull could have been done a lot more effectively.

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Gotta agree.
CATFA felt like a de-fanged attempt at a pulp cliffhanger serial. The thing that Lucas and Spielberg had going for them was an actual sense of wonder, of fun, of roguish and likeable heroes involved in big, brawling and sprawling set pieces. CATFA was just about a nice guy who got superpowers and fast-forwarded through a strange and dull side-pocket of WWII.

Don't make me Kangry, you won't like me when I'm Kangry.

[Tvar10]

Originally Posted by peterparker0077

I understand that, but as I said, they could of incorporated them better. I also think Skull could have been done a lot more effectively.

I agree. I didn't find Skull to be too threatening. Some moments he even seemed comical.

[KangConquers]

Red Skull was kind of a James Bond villain, where as I think a lot of people wanted him to be Bane or Jokeresque.

I would definitely like to see a darker side to the Red Skull in the future, but I don't think a grim dark take on Skull would've fit the tone of the film, nor the MCU.

[Tvar10]

Originally Posted by KangConquers

Red Skull was kind of a James Bond villain, where as I think a lot of people wanted him to be Bane or Jokeresque.

I would definitely like to see a darker side to the Red Skull in the future, but I don't think a grim dark take on Skull would've fit the tone of the film, nor the MCU.

Looks like mandarin is going to be very dark. I didn't really see that coming. I'm not too familiar with him but from what I remember from the iron man cartoon he wasn't so badass

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by Tvar10

Looks like mandarin is going to be very dark. I didn't really see that coming. I'm not too familiar with him but from what I remember from the iron man cartoon he wasn't so badass

Yeah. I think Phase 2 will be thematically darker. I think given it's all building up to Thanos that Death will be a big theme in these films.

[metaphysician]

This might be a silly question, but would the movie really have been improved if Hydra did the exact same stuff, only without the Red Skull going independent? Would slapping a few extra swastikas on the base really make *that* big a difference?

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by metaphysician

This might be a silly question, but would the movie really have been improved if Hydra did the exact same stuff, only without the Red Skull going independent? Would slapping a few extra swastikas on the base really make *that* big a difference?

Not in my opinion.
What CATFA would've benefited from would have been greater attention to the action scenes. You watch successful pulp flicks like Indiana Jones, and Spielberg spends like 20-30 minutes on a single set piece, and it's exciting as hell. CATFA's approach was to montage every damn action scene to make it look like a movie trailer or a music video --- there was no substance to *any* of the action sequences.

[peterparker0077]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Not in my opinion.
What CATFA would've benefited from would have been greater attention to the action scenes. You watch successful pulp flicks like Indiana Jones, and Spielberg spends like 20-30 minutes on a single set piece, and it's exciting as hell. CATFA's approach was to montage every damn action scene to make it look like a movie trailer or a music video --- there was no substance to *any* of the action sequences.

exactly... the film could of benefited from being a half hour longer, and at least included one really recognizable WWII scene or battle.

[TheVileOne]

Red Skull wouldn't have turned on Hitler.

Having Red Skull kill the only Nazis in the movie was weird and made no sense to me.

[xeno000]

Originally Posted by TheVileOne

Red Skull wouldn't have turned on Hitler.

Having Red Skull kill the only Nazis in the movie was weird and made no sense to me.

Red Skull in the MCU is different from the comics version. Johann Schmidt turned on Hitler because he considered the dictator weak and misguided. Schmidt thought himself superior to all of humanity, Hitler included, after he took the serum, and thus he felt that he alone should rule the world. Unlike the comics version, he had powers of his own (physically), so it made sense that he would not want to be Hitler's lackey when he himself was not only stronger, but a genius in his own right. By taking HYDRA under his own command he also developed the military prowess to threaten both the Axis powers and the Allies and potentially defeat all of them. Given all that, the film provided more than enough justification for Schmidt's betrayal of Hitler and the Nazis.

[TheVileOne]

Meh I still didn't like it.

The movie was way too PC about Nazis.

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by TheVileOne

Meh I still didn't like it.

The movie was way too PC about Nazis.

I liked the movie for not just being Captain America dropped in the middle of a world war 2 film. It was recognizably Marvel, recognizably Superhero. I never wanted Saving Private Ryan with Captain America shoe-horned in.

[peterparker0077]

Originally Posted by KangConquers

I liked the movie for not just being Captain America dropped in the middle of a world war 2 film. It was recognizably Marvel, recognizably Superhero. I never wanted Saving Private Ryan with Captain America shoe-horned in.

and there is a huge gap there that has many inbetweens

[OB12]

I liked the movie for not just being Captain America dropped in the middle of a world war 2 film. It was recognizably Marvel, recognizably Superhero. I never wanted Saving Private Ryan with Captain America shoe-horned in.

I agree completely. The level of Nazi recognition in the film was suitable for what I was expecting out of a Marvel movie. I was not expecting or wanting a gritty war movie with brutal kills and concentration camps. I got pretty much everything I wanted out of a Cap WW2 movie, basically an action-adventure romp through its own corner of the war.

[UnionJack]

I can see Red Skull coming back, all you need is a good tv character actor who doesn't get upperty at having a mask put on them for lots of money.

If they need him in a normal face they can show that as Skull has changed his "face" several times to elude Cap/Shield.

[OB12]

Seriously, I'd like to see what Rainn Wilson could do with Red Skull. I think he has a unique look and devilish smile that could be a good fit for the part, plus I think he is pretty decent actor.

[The Guard]

The main problem with The Red Skull was that he had really lousy motivations. He didn't really have a reason for wanting to rule the world. There were no Nazi ideals leading to beliefs about his superiority beyond the physical, no real exploration of that angle at all, which I think is the issue most people have with the portayal of the Nazi party in this film...he just sort of wanted to destroy America and rule the world...because. It made for a pretty cliched, weak villain.

[The Overlord]

Originally Posted by Spider-Fan

Red Skull's defection was a tool to show how Red Skull is a dark mirror to Steve Roger's (the frustrations of both with their superior's led to their defection...in Cap's case, save the 107th, and Skull's to pursue his own goals). Had the Nazi's been more incorporated as the film was structured, the mirror parallels would have been decreased. I felt the Red Skull was done very effectively in the film, myself.

That is a pretty obvious parallel, I prefer the parallel in the comics, with Captain America presenting freedom and tolerance, while Red Skull represents tyranny and hatred. Making Red Skull break away from the Nazis makes him less evil, not more. In the comics both Captain America and Red Skull grew up in poverty, while Captain America remained an optimist, Red Skull became cynical and bitter and developed a grudge against the world. That is a better parallel.

Red Skull is supposed to represent the mind set that created Nazi Germany, the Treaty of Versailles created political chaos and poverty in Germany and those things lead to many Germans embracing the Nazis. Taking the hatred and intolerance aspect away from the Red Skull, makes him far less fearsome and interesting and makes him feel like a generic James Bond villain.