![]() |
![]() |
#51 |
Lobsterized
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 11,471
|
![]()
I totally see what you're saying. TDKR did feel very much like a sprawling novel that had to be abridged for a movie. I guess what I love about it is that it's not based on a novel despite feeling like that, just the product of decades' worth of great material for this character and good writers finding inspiration in that and treating it like a true piece of American literature.
|
![]() |
![]() |
#52 | |
Fountainhead of culture.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Peter North's Southern Headquarters
Posts: 57,638
|
![]() Quote:
However, I kind of wish we could actually see an unabridged script or novel of the film. It's probably be spectacular.
__________________
It's like a non-consecutive 24-hour dance party.
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#53 |
Lobsterized
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 11,471
|
![]()
Yeah, I'd love to see Jonah's 500 page draft or whatever the heck it was.
|
![]() |
![]() |
#54 | |
Banned User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,494
|
![]() Quote:
Talia's whole speech about her father solidifies her insanity & deluded mission statement. Talia & Bane want to believe more than anything that they are indeed fulfilling Ra's Al Ghul's destiny. In truth, they are not. Like the Jihad, there's no way their mass murdering is pleasing Allah. Bruce's reaction is America's reaction. Its confusion & horror. The whole movie is filled with references to modern terrorism and its effects on Western Civilization. I think had you picked up on them more, you wouldn't have dismissed the villains & their plot to destroy Gotham. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#55 | |
The Clown Prince of Crime
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Arkham Asylum
Posts: 48,917
|
![]() Quote:
__________________
"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!" - The Joker |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#56 | ||
Master Tim
Join Date: May 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 8,884
|
![]() Quote:
Quote:
Talia and Bane's plan strayed from the original plan of the League of Shadows and turned into one of revenge. It didn't matter that Gotham had seemingly fixed itself... Gotham still was the city that took Talia's father. It was still the city that defeated them. It had to die. As they were going about destroying the city, Bane discovers that the uneasy peace that Gotham was experiencing was based on a lie. This knowledge allows the "saving" of Gotham to not only continue to be a revenge mission -- but also keeps it well with in line with the "most important function of the League of Shadows..." -R |
||
![]() |
![]() |
#57 |
Banned User
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,197
|
![]()
That is the worst reason ever to kill a city. The city didn't defeat Ra's. Batman did.
|
![]() |
![]() |
#58 | |
Banned User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,494
|
![]() Quote:
9/11, the Ambassador in Libya, 4000 American troops KIA in the last 10 years... Watch the news. You'll never find a satisfying reason for Al-Qaeda's actions. Bane & Talia were driven by madness. Ra's had a code. Its like comparing Che Guevara to Osama Bin Laden. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#59 |
Banned User
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,197
|
![]()
Ehhh no Joker was a terrorist and he had a motive. He had a reason to do what he did. He had a point to prove. Crazy point but he still had a point.
Nolan gave all of his villains in BB and TDK great motives that you could buy and understand even if they were wrong. Bane and Talia's was crap and made no sense. |
![]() |
![]() |
#60 | |
Banned User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,494
|
![]() Quote:
Validate their actions for me. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#61 |
Banned User
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,197
|
![]()
I'm not paying to see Al-Qaeda as the main villains in a 2 and a half hour movie.
|
![]() |
![]() |
#62 | |
Banned User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,494
|
![]() Quote:
The LOS in TDKR are Nolan's answer to Al-Qaeda. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#63 |
Fountainhead of culture.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Peter North's Southern Headquarters
Posts: 57,638
|
![]()
The LOS' motives were ridiculously simple and easy to understand.
They were essentially Environmental Extremists who didn't believe in any type of man made organization or society. They're essentially anarchists. Hence their hatred of one of the most prominent cities in the world (Gotham), and why they didn't see Gotham as being "fixed" due to the Dent Act. To them, no city could ever possibly be "fixed", they disagree with the mere concept of a city to begin with.
__________________
It's like a non-consecutive 24-hour dance party.
|
![]() |
![]() |
#64 |
Banned User
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,197
|
![]()
Nope. They were the LOS brought back contradicting themselves to the Begins LOS and making their comeback look stupid and pointless which it was.
|
![]() |
![]() |
#65 | ||
Lobsterized
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 11,471
|
![]() Quote:
Quote:
|
||
![]() |
![]() |
#66 | |
Banned User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,494
|
![]() Quote:
The CIA in Kazakhstan, The Patriot Act/Dent Act, The Lazarus Pit in Syria... You realize all these things are cinematic translations of real things? The LOS in TDKR is not the LOS from BB. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#67 | |
Banned User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,494
|
![]() Quote:
I'd compare Ra's more to Che Guevara though & give Bane/Talia the Osama title. Then again, Goyer didn't know at that point that a more extreme set of terrorists would be the villains of the third film. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#68 | |||
Banned User
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,197
|
![]()
In Batman Begins they were.
Quote:
It helps that Nolan expositions the hell out of his villains motives. It makes it easier to show how TDKR's LOS was wrong. Constantly. Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
![]() |
![]() |
#69 |
Banned User
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,197
|
![]()
Thanks for proving our point. Proving Ra's had a purpose that made sense.
|
![]() |
![]() |
#70 | |
Banned User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,494
|
![]() Quote:
What does blowing up The World Trade Center do for Al-Qaeda other than fulfill a desire for American blood spilled? What does blowing up Gotham City do for Talia & Bane's LOS other than fulfill a desire for American blood spilled? Exacto mondo. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#71 | ||
Banned User
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,197
|
![]() Quote:
Quote:
Ra's plan was great. Joker's plan was great. Both crazy, but made sense and you could buy why they were doing it. Bane and Talia's is nonsense. Contradiction. |
||
![]() |
![]() |
#72 | ||
Lobsterized
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 11,471
|
![]() Quote:
Quote:
I like that for Ra's, Bane and Talia, their personal motivations for becoming evil are explained, but their actual ideologies are pretty much analogous to the ones of real life terrorists. Whereas for The Joker, we get a deep look inside his head and how he sees the world, but his personal motivation for becoming this way is kept a mystery. It provides a nice contrast. Ra's, Bane and Talia all start as very human characters with human emotions (Two-Face as well for that matter), whereas The Joker is a monster all the way through and that's all we get to see. You could boil down The Joker to being pretty much Satan incarnate, just like you can boil down the LOS to being pretty much Al-Qaeda. You mean Allah? |
||
![]() |
![]() |
#73 | |
Banned User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,494
|
![]() Quote:
The Jihad think they're fulfilling Allah's wishes. They're not. The LOS in TDKR is a mutated version of Ra's LOS. You're deeming their motivations wrong & the writing bad because you failed to understand both. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#74 | |
Banned User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,494
|
![]() Quote:
And I love the bit about The Joker being Satan. He pretty much was. Since TDK was essentially a battle of good vs. evil, its very fitting for him to be compared to Satan. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#75 |
Banned User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,422
|
![]()
The Dark Knight Rises s not worthy of any Oscars apart from maybe some technical nominations.
|
![]() |
![]() |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|