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Old 10-19-2012, 03:49 PM   #976
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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I see someone's a big Cap fan, especially with what you said in number 2 of your post.
I am, but I also see him as a unifier. I think that moment would have given Thor a better reason to respect Cap as a leader. Thor's hammer never effects the shield in the comics that I am aware of, but it depends on the writer I guess.

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Old 10-19-2012, 03:49 PM   #977
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Yeah Cap being portrayed as the leader is only right, but Cap not budging from Thor's blow would be eye roll worthy.
Why? Is that not the nature of his shield? Again, that is how it's protrayed in most if not all comics and cartoons I have seen, or remember seeing.

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Old 10-19-2012, 03:50 PM   #978
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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Vibranium is supposedly stronger than steel and completely absorbs vibration. I would think the initial impact of Thors hammer would have some effect on Cap. Think of it like this, if Thor were just to put his hand up to the shield and push, Cap would feel the resistance if he's holding the shield up. Try not to think of it like a force field. That's how I look at it anyways.
Well, then you would have to do the same with bullets, tank shells, and everything else.

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Old 10-19-2012, 10:17 PM   #979
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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Vibranium is supposedly stronger than steel and completely absorbs vibration. I would think the initial impact of Thors hammer would have some effect on Cap. Think of it like this, if Thor were just to put his hand up to the shield and push, Cap would feel the resistance if he's holding the shield up. Try not to think of it like a force field. That's how I look at it anyways.
I said same thing a few pages back -

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My biggest complaint is this - In the fight between Cap. America and Thor, Why did not impact of Thor's Hammer kill Captain America, an impact that powerful would have nailed Cap into ground, killing him, and I know the regular explanations given by Marvel fans which are not convincing like -

Captain America's shield is made up of Vibranium (which does not exist in real world.) and Vibranium absorbs the energy of impact, but then Thor would not have been thrown back when the hammer touched the Shield. And even if it some how managed to absorb the energy, some of the energy would have been transferred to Captain as well as he was the one holding the Shield that would have been enough for him to feel the force of impact and get killed.

(think a speeding Truck hitting a man standing on a highway.)

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Old 10-19-2012, 11:21 PM   #980
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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Why? Is that not the nature of his shield? Again, that is how it's protrayed in most if not all comics and cartoons I have seen, or remember seeing.
No, he's sent flying by things hitting his shield ALOT as a matter of fact he was sent flying by a grenade in the final battle.

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Old 10-20-2012, 07:07 PM   #981
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

One issue I had was the initial scene between Banner and Black Widow. She tells him to come with her or she'll "convince him." Then there's a shot of a Shield Special Ops team ready to take the Hulk down if necessary.

I didn't buy this. I feel the Hulk would simply laugh at such a threat. In my opinion, BW should've just asked Banner for his help, then left. Banner should've made the move to join the team on his own.


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Old 10-20-2012, 07:23 PM   #982
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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If Asgardians are bullet-proof,why did Loki's dagger pierce him?I've been wondering that,as I admit I'm not as familier with Thor as the other characters.
I figured from jump it was an Asgardian(If not Asgardian-like) metal. So, it would make sense for it to pierce him.

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Old 10-20-2012, 08:51 PM   #983
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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One issue I had was the initial scene between Banner and Black Widow. She tells him to come with her or she'll "convince him." Then there's a shot of a Shield Special Ops team ready to take the Hulk down if necessary.

I didn't buy this. I feel the Hulk would simply laugh at such a threat. In my opinion, BW should've just asked Banner for his help, then left. Banner should've made the move to join the team on his own.
I was a bit confused as well. Later in the film she says, You didn't come here because I bat my eyelashes at you" or something like that. So does that imply military or would she "woo" him?

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Old 10-20-2012, 08:57 PM   #984
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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I was a bit confused as well. Later in the film she says, You didn't come here because I bat my eyelashes at you" or something like that. So does that imply military or would she "woo" him?
I assume it means the threat of military force. He didn't come because of her, but rather because he would've been taken down if he had refused.

Again, though, I dislike this. The Hulk would've ripped through that military team with ease. I would've preferred Banner, instead of thinking of himself, being willing to risk his own freedom to help the world.

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Old 10-20-2012, 09:25 PM   #985
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

^ Except that he didn't feel that he was an asset in that respect and was choosing to help people in other ways.

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Old 10-20-2012, 10:06 PM   #986
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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I assume it means the threat of military force. He didn't come because of her, but rather because he would've been taken down if he had refused.

Again, though, I dislike this. The Hulk would've ripped through that military team with ease. I would've preferred Banner, instead of thinking of himself, being willing to risk his own freedom to help the world.
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^ Except that he didn't feel that he was an asset in that respect and was choosing to help people in other ways.
In regards to that, a part of me wishes that they could have capitalized on another aspect regarding that situation and that would be Banner, wanting to secretly learn more about what SHIELD was doing with the cube to begin with since it was later revealed in the Hellcarrier by Stark that SHIELD even being involved with it was troubling him down underneath and we later saw in the huge argument scene that he wasn't okay with the idea of them using the cube to create weapons.

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Old 10-20-2012, 10:08 PM   #987
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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^ Except that he didn't feel that he was an asset in that respect and was choosing to help people in other ways.
Very true. I think my issue is more that he's "forced" to help, when he really couldn't / shouldn't be forced to do anything. I feel the basic idea is - "Come with us." "I don't want to." "You have no choice."

It seems this scene is more about moving the story along quickly, but still, it just doesn't ring true for me.


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Old 10-22-2012, 05:08 PM   #988
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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In regards to that, a part of me wishes that they could have capitalized on another aspect regarding that situation and that would be Banner, wanting to secretly learn more about what SHIELD was doing with the cube to begin with since it was later revealed in the Hellcarrier by Stark that SHIELD even being involved with it was troubling him down underneath and we later saw in the huge argument scene that he wasn't okay with the idea of them using the cube to create weapons.
Agreed, and that's one of the enduring aspects of Banner that made him interesting to me since a kid. He's a walking, breathing example of the danger man poses to himself when trying to harness greater power. He was attempting to create the ultimate weapon of mass destruction in the Gamma Bomb, and indirectly became that weapon himself. Would've been a nice touch to see on film, him grappling with that type of notion...

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Old 10-23-2012, 02:42 AM   #989
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

Okay, is it just me or did "Iron Man 3" based on what we saw in the first trailer that was recently released look a bit more cinematic than the Avengers at times? If Thor 2 meets that record as well, I'm starting to wonder if Whedon really needs to get someone better to help him with doing the visuals for the next avengers film.

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Old 10-23-2012, 02:01 PM   #990
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

I noticed that too.

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Old 10-24-2012, 08:33 AM   #991
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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Okay, is it just me or did "Iron Man 3" based on what we saw in the first trailer that was recently released look a bit more cinematic than the Avengers at times? If Thor 2 meets that record as well, I'm starting to wonder if Whedon really needs to get someone better to help him with doing the visuals for the next avengers film.

I think this actually goes along with what Wally Pfister was saying. I think it is very evident watching The Avengers that it was made by someone who really doesn't have a lot of experience directing movies but is a really great writer. This is mainly because of the way it was shot I think. But that really doesn't bother me too much, because if that is the area Whedon is weakest in, his strengths more than make up for it. He is much stronger in creating a complete story with good pacing and balance, and he writes all these different characters extremely well. In fact I would even go so far as to say The Avengers is more like a play than any movie in recent memory, for a number of reasons. After seeing it idk how many times, I can't help but view it as having the same layout as a play. And it's why I loved it so much, because it was so different yet still so awesome.

I actually think that the Avengers is as close to being the diametrical opposite of Nolan's trilogy as you could get. I don't hate Nolan's films but nor do I love them, I think that like each director Nolan has strengths and weaknesses. Nolna's biggest strength, and my favorite aspect of every one of his movies, is the cinematography. Every film he does is shot beautifully and looks great all the way through. But I cannot stand how characters are written in his movies. In every one of his films there is a slew of characters who have bad arcs and are written terribly. But like I said, it's a strength/weakness thing. I will trade good cinematography for great writing any day, which is why I loved the Avengers so much, and didn't care too much for TDKR.

So talking about Iron Man 3 looking more "cinematic" (a term I don't really like), I think it's because Shane Black is the one making this movie. Even though he has only directed one movie, I think he has a little firmer grasp on the "director" side of things than Whedon does, especially directing action/thrillers. He has been on set for these types of movies and around these types of people for over 20 years now. It's why I am so excited about IM 3. I think Shane Black will blow it out of the water.

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Old 10-25-2012, 05:53 AM   #992
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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I think this actually goes along with what Wally Pfister was saying. I think it is very evident watching The Avengers that it was made by someone who really doesn't have a lot of experience directing movies but is a really great writer. This is mainly because of the way it was shot I think. But that really doesn't bother me too much, because if that is the area Whedon is weakest in, his strengths more than make up for it. He is much stronger in creating a complete story with good pacing and balance, and he writes all these different characters extremely well. In fact I would even go so far as to say The Avengers is more like a play than any movie in recent memory, for a number of reasons. After seeing it idk how many times, I can't help but view it as having the same layout as a play. And it's why I loved it so much, because it was so different yet still so awesome.

I actually think that the Avengers is as close to being the diametrical opposite of Nolan's trilogy as you could get. I don't hate Nolan's films but nor do I love them, I think that like each director Nolan has strengths and weaknesses. Nolna's biggest strength, and my favorite aspect of every one of his movies, is the cinematography. Every film he does is shot beautifully and looks great all the way through. But I cannot stand how characters are written in his movies. In every one of his films there is a slew of characters who have bad arcs and are written terribly. But like I said, it's a strength/weakness thing. I will trade good cinematography for great writing any day, which is why I loved the Avengers so much, and didn't care too much for TDKR.

So talking about Iron Man 3 looking more "cinematic" (a term I don't really like), I think it's because Shane Black is the one making this movie. Even though he has only directed one movie, I think he has a little firmer grasp on the "director" side of things than Whedon does, especially directing action/thrillers. He has been on set for these types of movies and around these types of people for over 20 years now. It's why I am so excited about IM 3. I think Shane Black will blow it out of the water.
I agree with you on many points.

By the end of the day, I think it's a great time to be a comic book fan since we're getting a whole range of comic book films, where those who appreciate the style that Nolan brings (gritty/realistic) can have their cake, while others who enjoy comic book films that adhere more closer to the source material and feels fun and adventurous gets it with the Marvel Films.

And I can appreciate Whedon for the huge task that he was able to accomplish and achieve with this film. My one hope is that after having made this film that he has learned a lot from it when it comes to visuals since yeah while it his is weakest source, I hope that in time with future installments that he gets better with it.

Now, I wouldn't say that his visuals are as terrible as Wally is making them out to be but in the same time, I feel like the visuals could have been better as well. Hell, if Whedon had Snyder's visuals and Bay's ability for choreographing some intense action sequences connected with his writing and directing abilities, he could achieve wonders with his future installments.

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Old 10-25-2012, 06:52 AM   #993
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

Am I the only one who loved the cinematography?

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Old 10-25-2012, 12:53 PM   #994
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

nope, i did as well.

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Old 10-25-2012, 04:35 PM   #995
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I can't even see what the people complaining about it are talking about.

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Old 10-25-2012, 04:42 PM   #996
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

The only parts I have assumed people meant more than anything was when the camera goes out of focus when Hulk is bringing down Leviathan and all the military Hummers on the street.

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Old 10-25-2012, 05:32 PM   #997
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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I think this actually goes along with what Wally Pfister was saying. I think it is very evident watching The Avengers that it was made by someone who really doesn't have a lot of experience directing movies but is a really great writer. This is mainly because of the way it was shot I think. But that really doesn't bother me too much, because if that is the area Whedon is weakest in, his strengths more than make up for it. He is much stronger in creating a complete story with good pacing and balance, and he writes all these different characters extremely well. In fact I would even go so far as to say The Avengers is more like a play than any movie in recent memory, for a number of reasons. After seeing it idk how many times, I can't help but view it as having the same layout as a play. And it's why I loved it so much, because it was so different yet still so awesome.

I actually think that the Avengers is as close to being the diametrical opposite of Nolan's trilogy as you could get. I don't hate Nolan's films but nor do I love them, I think that like each director Nolan has strengths and weaknesses. Nolna's biggest strength, and my favorite aspect of every one of his movies, is the cinematography. Every film he does is shot beautifully and looks great all the way through. But I cannot stand how characters are written in his movies. In every one of his films there is a slew of characters who have bad arcs and are written terribly. But like I said, it's a strength/weakness thing. I will trade good cinematography for great writing any day, which is why I loved the Avengers so much, and didn't care too much for TDKR.

So talking about Iron Man 3 looking more "cinematic" (a term I don't really like), I think it's because Shane Black is the one making this movie. Even though he has only directed one movie, I think he has a little firmer grasp on the "director" side of things than Whedon does, especially directing action/thrillers. He has been on set for these types of movies and around these types of people for over 20 years now. It's why I am so excited about IM 3. I think Shane Black will blow it out of the water.
I agree with many of your points, but no way would I say Avengers is like a play. It was very cinematic. And would I say IM3 looks more cinematic?

No, I wouldn't. It looks different stylistically. It looks a bit darker and gritter, which I don't think is better or worse, it just looks different. Avengers was filmed with a 3D experience in mind, and that contributed to the filming style I think. And much of the action was amazing.

But Avengers being like a play? No, not really. Frost Nixon was like a play. Doubt was like a play...because they were originally plays. Movies that are like plays go low on the action, high on the dialogue, and move at much slower paces.

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Old 10-25-2012, 05:56 PM   #998
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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Am I the only one who loved the cinematography?
No, I like it and had no issues with it. But I can understand where people come from saying the likes of TDKR and IR3 being more "cinematic." However the whole Chitauri invasion was beautifully done IMO. Switching to what each character was doing on the go looked great and felt really like a battle you see in the comics. Avengers looked and felt more like a comic book than most superhero movies I've ever seen.

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Old 10-26-2012, 10:43 AM   #999
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

I liked the cinematography of Avengers. It was different than TDKR, but just b/c it was different than Nolan, doesn't make it bad.

It was big and bold and colorful--everything I'd imagine a comic translation to screen would look like. Loved it.

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Old 10-26-2012, 12:37 PM   #1000
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It was big and bold and colorful--everything I'd imagine a comic translation to screen would look like. Loved it.
My thoughts exactly! Pretty perfect in my eyes.

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