Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 1

[Kane52630]

The Mondo poster was pretty awesome.

[Whiskey Tango]

Originally Posted by C. Lee

This wasn't official...but I loved it -

Whoa I didn't see this one.

[Hawkingbird]

I really hope they market Winter Soldier better, it's a shame that Cap didn't do aswell as it should have.

[Lunar_Wolf]

Originally Posted by C. Lee

This wasn't official...but I loved it -

LOVE this poster.

[chamber-music]

SFX magazine had some speculation that Bucky will be breainwashed and become Winter Soldier under Hydra instead the Soviets.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by chamber-music

SFX magazine had some speculation that Bucky will be breainwashed and become Winter Soldier under Hydra instead the Soviets.

They're not alone in that speculation.

In the MCU, it makes more sense for it to be HYDRA, since Bucky disappeared in HYDRA territory....they would've been the ones to find and capture him, not the Soviets. And it wouldn't make any sense for the Red Army to find an American soldier out in the wilds and, rather than simply return him to his unit, instead choose to brainwash him to become a mercenary assassin.

[BullMcGiveny]

It could happen, and I wouldn't put it past Marvel to do it.

I disagree on it making more sense, though. HYDRA is said to be loosing ground, with their Alpine headquarters being their last base. So at that point in time, they don't have territory left, if they had any to begin with, as I thought HYDRA was portrayed as a rogue entity in control of a network of military installations rather than a political force that occupied towns and so on. Th

[metaphysician]

Like I've said before, no reason it can't be both: whichever remnant of Hydra found Bucky "defected" to the Soviets. Fast forward a decade or so, and voila, Hydra Reborn! ( Eastern Branch )

[TacomaTruck90]

Having Hydra pulling Bucky's string is the "PERFECT" way to introduce hydra into the 21st century for the sake of MCU. Despite it not staiying true to the comics but what they have done thus far..im fine with there own spin, its worked for the past five years...

[The Caped Knight]

Originally Posted by TacomaTruck90

Having Hydra pulling Bucky's string is the "PERFECT" way to introduce hydra into the 21st century for the sake of MCU.

I absolutely agree

[Hawkingbird]

Rather they stick to the story

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by Hawkingbird

Rather they stick to the story

To be fair, MS already went off the reservation by retconning HYDRA back to WWII in the MCU anyway, and by changing Bucky's character and fate. So in the canon of the MCU, having HYDRA get hold of him makes sense.

[BobJM]

I'm cool with Hydra pulling the strings, but there's got to be some Russian involvement so there can be a BW tie.

Maybe the Hydra higher-ups involved in the Winter Soldier brainwashing were Russian & during Cold War Era, when Russia was America's enemy, it made sense for Hydra to ally itself with Russia (like they did with Nazi Germany during WWII).

Makes Hydra sort of unanimous with anti-America parties throughout history and we can watch how it changes itself to better position itself against democracy.

[Dark Raven]

Maybe since WWII Hydra have expanded to become a more international terrorist outfit. So they're not just Nazis but any super power or country for which it is too un-PC to make a movie about now.

[BullMcGiveny]

Gah, had a whole thing about why HYDRA as WS' bosses isn't such a hot idea but my browser crapped out on me.

Here's a question... What makes the "Perfect" way to reintroduce HYDRA aside. Why reintroduce them at all?

Also, HYDRA couldn't have been the ones to make Bucky into Winter Soldier.

Bucky went missing only a short period of time before HYDRA was attacked by the SSR.

They're on a mission to capture Zola. Bucky falls. They get Zola back to London where Philips instantly debriefs him. Philips then briefs Cap/Howlers that HYDRA's assault will commence in less than 24 hours.

He also says that HYDRA only has their base in the Alps.

The SSR clearly wins the battle against HYDRA.

All signs point to that at the end of the war, there wasn't a HYDRA to make Bucky into Winter Soldier at all.

[Hawkingbird]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

To be fair, MS already went off the reservation by retconning HYDRA back to WWII in the MCU anyway, and by changing Bucky's character and fate. So in the canon of the MCU, having HYDRA get hold of him makes sense.

Bah humbug!

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by BullMcGiveny

Gah, had a whole thing about why HYDRA as WS' bosses isn't such a hot idea but my browser crapped out on me.

Here's a question... What makes the "Perfect" way to reintroduce HYDRA aside. Why reintroduce them at all?

Also, HYDRA couldn't have been the ones to make Bucky into Winter Soldier.

Bucky went missing only a short period of time before HYDRA was attacked by the SSR.

They're on a mission to capture Zola. Bucky falls. They get Zola back to London where Philips instantly debriefs him. Philips then briefs Cap/Howlers that HYDRA's assault will commence in less than 24 hours.

He also says that HYDRA only has their base in the Alps.

The SSR clearly wins the battle against HYDRA.

All signs point to that at the end of the war, there wasn't a HYDRA to make Bucky into Winter Soldier at all.

We don't know if there were any HYDRA remnants or not....maybe some survived.

In any event, Zola *definitely* survived, and we can suspect that he didn't remain a "guest" of the SSR forever. Maybe he escaped, or was involved in a spy swap during the Cold War. There's every reason to believe that Zola would have rebuilt HYDRA from the ground up, since he was more or less the brains behind the outfit anyway.

[The Guard]

There's also the whole "Bucky was already being experimented on" when he was rescued thing.

[MarvelKnight]

True. There is that.

[BullMcGiveny]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

In any event, Zola *definitely* survived, and we can suspect that he didn't remain a "guest" of the SSR forever. Maybe he escaped, or was involved in a spy swap during the Cold War. There's every reason to believe that Zola would have rebuilt HYDRA from the ground up, since he was more or less the brains behind the outfit anyway.

And Bucky would have just been waiting there, at the bottom of the valley, for years?

[Hawkingbird]

Originally Posted by The Guard

There's also the whole "Bucky was already being experimented on" when he was rescued thing.

On the commentary the director said that Zola's experimenting did have something to do with him becoming Winter Soldier...

[BullMcGiveny]

Originally Posted by Hawkingbird

On the commentary the director said that Zola's experimenting did have something to do with him becoming Winter Soldier...

True.

specifically, they say that they experimented on him with Zola's version of the super-soldier serum. And that's how he ends up surviving the fall.

But that doesn't explain why it makes it better for HYDRA to have been the ones to turn him into the Winter Soldier. In fact, it makes keeping that role for the KGB easier.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by BullMcGiveny

True.

specifically, they say that they experimented on him with Zola's version of the super-soldier serum. And that's how he ends up surviving the fall.

But that doesn't explain why it makes it better for HYDRA to have been the ones to turn him into the Winter Soldier. In fact, it makes keeping that role for the KGB easier.

Why does it make keeping that role for the Sovs easier?
There *could* have been Soviets in the area where Bucky disappeared, but there's absolutely no evidence of that. There *is* evidence that HYDRA was there, in force.

And again, I keep coming back to the simple question: why would the Russians keep Bucky and brainwash him into being their Manchurian Candidate? The Russians were America's allies in WWII --- if they found a lost American soldier, it's 99.9% likely that they would've simply tried to return him to his unit.

[BullMcGiveny]

You ask why would the Soviets do that, when that question has already been addressed in the storyline the movie is going to be based upon.

In the comics, they took him back to Moscow because they thought he had the super-soldier serum. It turned out that he didn't, so they turned him into Winter Soldier for a myriad of reason.

In the movies, he has a version of the super-soldier serum, so the Soviets wouldn't be so eager to give him back.

[metaphysician]

Why would they reintroduce Hydra? Because irrespective of Winter Soldier, Hydra is a major part of the Marvel Universe. Having Hydra continue to exist post-WWII would be incredibly useful, so there is no good reason to avoid doing so. Particularly with the TV show coming up: Hydra is *the* SHIELD nemesis.