Daredevil reboot: official discussion thread - Part 3

[Bruce Malone]

Yeah but my point was from what i know of fisk (which is not a lot mind you) is that he is a very refined well spoken individual and not a tough talker? At least from what i remember him in the the spider-man animated series.

He only becomes "tough" when it comes to fighting and his strength is a big surprise but otherwise he is very mild mannered. Something that doesn't seem to connect with chiklis who like said i find sort of one note.

[Alexei Belyakov]

Originally Posted by Bruce Malone

Yeah but my point was from what i know of fisk (which is not a lot mind you) is that he is a very refined well spoken individual and not a tough talker? At least from what i remember him in the the spider-man animated series.

He only becomes "tough" when it comes to fighting and his strength is a big surprise but otherwise he is very mild mannered. Something that doesn't seem to connect with chiklis who like said i find sort of one note.

I see what you mean. I was giving Chiklis the approval based on looks and intimidation. Not persona.

Frankly, Kelsey Grammer plays Kingpin on BOSS.

The guy is so much like him that at times he reminds me of specific comics where Kingpin does or says something similar.

If DEXTER & BOSS had a crossover episode where Hall visits Chicago & wears a costume (for some reason) we'd have the perfect DD movie.

[TheWatcher]

I always imagined Matt would be shorter, around 5'10 or 5'11 and would have the build of boxer or professional gymnast.

Kingpin should be overweight, but not to the point where he is obese like he portrayed in some media. He is mostly muscle.

[Jordacar]

Originally Posted by TheWatcher

Kingpin should be overweight, but not to the point where he is obese like he portrayed in some media. He is mostly muscle.

yeah, one of my favorite moments from Miller's run is when Matt first fights Kingpin; after one kick he's all "Uh-oh, that didn't feel like fat, more like rock!"
Then he gets his ass kicked.

[TheWatcher]

Even in Spider-Man TAS he said he was all muscle, which didn't make sense to me since he was 8 feet wide.

Also, he should wear his yellow costume for some part of the movie.

[Brian Braddock]

Still want to see MCH's Daredevil facing off against a Donovan Bullseye.

[The Overlord]

Originally Posted by Brian Braddock

Still want to see MCH's Daredevil facing off against a Donovan Bullseye.

I still don't think Bullseye should be in the first movie. Maybe Kingpin should be in the first movie, but not Bullseye. Have some different villains for DD to fight.

[Dark Raven]

I think Kingpin should just be mostly a presence in the first movie. Maybe DD doesn't know about him or that he controls all the crime in the city. There should be a "lesser" villain who, at the end, tells DD that he doesn't know what he's up against and how he's now annoyed the big crime boss in the city. The big bad should be Kingpin.

[YoungPrime]

To wash the taste of the previous studios taste out of peoples mouths I say Marvel continues what they've been doing just on a smaller scale.

Meaning why not do 3 solo movies consisting of Daredevil, Punisher and Hero's For Hire: Luke Cage and Ironfist. Each having small but relevant crossovers in each film which build up to a film against Kingpin, Hammerhead and Silvermane.

Labeling them all under Marvel Knights Presents: Daredevil, Punisher, etc.

And "R" rating would be a plus, but I'm not against a PG13 film provided they actually make this happen and it's still good. They could always release a "Director Cut" version on Blu-ray to pacify the hardcore fans later down the line as well.

They could even turn around and do the same thing with Marvels mystical characters in solo films such as Dr. Strange, Blade and Ghost Rider should Sony realize they're killing this franchise or better yet wasting their money. Which would also build up to an epic fight against The Hood, Blackheart(The real one) and Morpheus.

Some are a stretch I know but the overall premise still has potential I think. And some may end up liking these team ups more than the Avengers phases.

What do you all think?

[metaphysician]

I don't see any dire need for a Heroes for Hire movie to be R-rated.

[YoungPrime]

Originally Posted by metaphysician

I don't see any dire need for a Heroes for Hire movie to be R-rated.

Me neither...

That was more for the Punisher or Daredevil films. But again I don't care if they give us an PG13 version provided they're good films regardless.

[Steve Holt]

Originally Posted by Brian Braddock

Still want to see MCH's Daredevil facing off against a Donovan Bullseye.

finally back up lol


if only Dexter had a crossover with Burn Notice, surely they'd run into each other by now

[Brian Braddock]

Now that I'd like to see.

[TheWatcher]

I think Michael would waste him in a fist fight.

[The Overlord]

Originally Posted by Dark Raven

I think Kingpin should just be mostly a presence in the first movie. Maybe DD doesn't know about him or that he controls all the crime in the city. There should be a "lesser" villain who, at the end, tells DD that he doesn't know what he's up against and how he's now annoyed the big crime boss in the city. The big bad should be Kingpin.

But who would be the big bad of the first film then? How many DD villains can carry a movie, as the main villain? I heard Death-Stalker suggested a couple of pages ago, but I think that character requires way too much set up. He was just a rich guy who committed crimes because he was bored and then after an encounter with DD was rendered him "out of phase" with our reality and he became Death-Stalker and wants revenge on DD. That's a fair amount of set up.

The problem the villain in the first movie has to be compelling in his own part, he can't just seem to be some lame place holder for Kingpin.

[lixdexia]

f that saving the big bad for a second movie garbage, tell your story up front.

[Dark Raven]

Originally Posted by The Overlord

But who would be the big bad of the first film then? How many DD villains can carry a movie, as the main villain? I heard Death-Stalker suggested a couple of pages ago, but I think that character requires way too much set up. He was just a rich guy who committed crimes because he was bored and then after an encounter with DD was rendered him "out of phase" with our reality and he became Death-Stalker and wants revenge on DD. That's a fair amount of set up.

The problem the villain in the first movie has to be compelling in his own part, he can't just seem to be some lame place holder for Kingpin.

Kingpin can still be the big bad, but he is more in the background. DD doesn't have to fight a crime boss in the first movie. I don't know what they would do with Bullseye, but he could be working for the Kingpin and has carried out a hit. Maybe DD investigates him and ends up battling him. In the end, he finds out that Bullseye has actually been contracted by Kingpin.

Or if not Bullseye, someone else like Gladiator.

You'd still have Kingpin appearing, but he's not going to face off against DD at this point but will just have his lackeys handle him. The problem with the Affleck DD is that Duncan's Kingpin seemed a bit like a thug himself.

And maybe have DD initially facing off against a different DD villain at the start, but when he's being brought to justice, he is assassinated by Bullseye, and Matt needs to find out why. Maybe he doesn't know Bullseye is a hitman at this point. That can lead him to inadvertently discovering the Kingpin. Not sure who would be this dispensable DD villain, but he'd have to be important enough for the Kingpin to want him dead. Maybe the Owl? Or could even just be a lesser one who is about to blow the whistle on Kingin's activities.

[The Overlord]

Originally Posted by Dark Raven

Kingpin can still be the big bad, but he is more in the background. DD doesn't have to fight a crime boss in the first movie. I don't know what they would do with Bullseye, but he could be working for the Kingpin and has carried out a hit. Maybe DD investigates him and ends up battling him. In the end, he finds out that Bullseye has actually been contracted by Kingpin.

Or if not Bullseye, someone else like Gladiator.

You'd still have Kingpin appearing, but he's not going to face off against DD at this point but will just have his lackeys handle him. The problem with the Affleck DD is that Duncan's Kingpin seemed a bit like a thug himself.

And maybe have DD initially facing off against a different DD villain at the start, but when he's being brought to justice, he is assassinated by Bullseye, and Matt needs to find out why. Maybe he doesn't know Bullseye is a hitman at this point. That can lead him to inadvertently discovering the Kingpin. Not sure who would be this dispensable DD villain, but he'd have to be important enough for the Kingpin to want him dead. Maybe the Owl? Or could even just be a lesser one who is about to blow the whistle on Kingin's activities.

But that other villain would be "The Heavy", most of the plot would have to be around him, with Kingpin in the back ground, so that other villain has to be interesting on his own, not just some lame place holder for Kingpin. I also think having Bullseye in the first movie would be a mistake, I think they should do things a bit differently from the first film. I also don't think Owl is interesting enough to be "The Heavy" having Owl as a crime boss and then Kingpin as a crime boss in the next film, Owl will seem like a poor man's Kingpin.

I always felt that the role Owl should play in a DD movie is a gang war story, with him going against Kingpin. That way you can set up a contrast against Owl and Kingpin, Owl as a gangster who doesn't care about his reputation and has a hair trigger temper, while Kingpin is far more cool, calm and in control. Kingpin uses violence mainly achieve an end, while Owl will often engage in violence for violence's sake because of his poor impulse control. Kingpin is like Vito or Michael Corleone from Godfather, while Owl is like Tommy DeVito from Goodfellas. If you don't have a gang war, you really can't set up this contrast. So the question is, do you go with a gang war story in the first movie? Can you set up this contrast if Kingpin is just being introduced in this film, instead of being set up in a previous film? Perhaps you make this movie about Kingpin's rise to power, with Owl being the top crime boss and Kingpin trying to over throw him and Owl losing his cool over the course of the movie, but I do think that contrast is important.

[Nelson/Murdock]

^Agreed 100%.


...Except for Kingpin being a clam.

[Vapor]

I'm not too into Daredevil comics (although another film would be cool) so I'm just curious but what about Purple Man? He could use his powers to control someone such as Gladiator so there is a physical threat but Purple Man would be the main, fleshed out villain, perhaps using his powers to try gain a position of power within the city.

Or, perhaps unlikely but seeing as Daredevil is back with Marvel could they not (have Kingpin working from the background as suggested) use someone elses villain, maybe someone like Taskmaster? Someone who might not get featured in the other more 'super power based films' but would be cool to see on screen nonetheless... He seems like he'd be a good fit for the more gritty/street level film Daredevil would likely be.

[The Overlord]

Originally Posted by Vapor

I'm not too into Daredevil comics (although another film would be cool) so I'm just curious but what about Purple Man? He could use his powers to control someone such as Gladiator so there is a physical threat but Purple Man would be the main, fleshed out villain, perhaps using his powers to try gain a position of power within the city.

The problem with Purple Man is, he is a bit lazy and with his powers he doesn't need to gain a position of power in the city, he doesn't even need money, he just go into any store and ask people for whatever he wants. Purple Man's more ambitious schemes have been at the behest of super villains who are able to counter Purple Man's power and force him to do their bidding. Purple Man only messes with heroes now because he is bored and because he hates them for sending him to jail in the past. I'm not sure how you would write a movie with him as the main villain and how can you hint about the Kingpin in that movie?

Originally Posted by Vapor

Or, perhaps unlikely but seeing as Daredevil is back with Marvel could they not (have Kingpin working from the background as suggested) use someone elses villain, maybe someone like Taskmaster? Someone who might not get featured in the other more 'super power based films' but would be cool to see on screen nonetheless... He seems like he'd be a good fit for the more gritty/street level film Daredevil would likely be.

The problem with Taskmaster is, he just a hired gun and DD already has several hired guns in his rogues gallery. That's the problem, DD has more hired guns that want to work for someone else then masterminds who can be the Big Bad of the film.

[Dark Raven]

Taskmaster doesn't seem like a fit for DD. He's also typically an Avengers villain. Gladiator and Death Stalker would be two of the best DD villains I think.

[The Overlord]

Originally Posted by Dark Raven

Taskmaster doesn't seem like a fit for DD. He's also typically an Avengers villain. Gladiator and Death Stalker would be two of the best DD villains I think.

Again, I think the problem with Death-Stalker is he requires a lot of set up and he is not a huge fan favorite like Venom, so people will not care about the set up like they do with Venom. Plus having a ray gun that sends people to another dimension in a DD film seems bit too outlandish and sci fi.

[Jordacar]

This is why I want a TV show instead of another movie, some villains require too much set-up, others can't carry a movie. Perfect recipe for television.

[Dark Raven]

Originally Posted by The Overlord

Again, I think the problem with Death-Stalker is he requires a lot of set up and he is not a huge fan favorite like Venom, so people will not care about the set up like they do with Venom. Plus having a ray gun that sends people to another dimension in a DD film seems bit too outlandish and sci fi.

He doesn't really need the ray gun though. His main schtick was his "touch of death" which made his victims feel intense cold, which can always be explained another way. But that said, his "ray gun" could easily be similar to the cosmic cube or the guns that Hydra were using in Captain America. They've already got all of that side set up with Marvel. Since DD occupies the same universe, they can always draw from that.