The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - Part 141

[Alex Logan]

Originally Posted by BaleISBatman4ev

Ok 3 nagging uber Bat nerd questions that are pestering me and i just wanted another bat nerd to clarify he's had these same thoughts so i dont feel too crazy.

1: Bane is eating/Drinking when we first see him in his Gotham underground lair correct?

Don't know, it's not clear. I always thought he was doing something to his body, like something he needed to keep himself alive.

Originally Posted by BaleISBatman4ev

2: Asian Cop who John Blake corresponds with in the tunnels is the "Must be a compound that has to be ingested via the lungs" cop from Begins (Or am i racist?)

No, not he same actor.

Originally Posted by BaleISBatman4ev

3: Senator who's a big batfan and was the "we're not intimidated by thugs" "You look like my father.... I hated my father" dude from the penthouse party scene in TDK is one of the board members at wayne enterprises that's defending Bruce Wayne against Dagget?

Yes, I believe so.

Originally Posted by BaleISBatman4ev

Honorable Mentions:

4: Anyone else think Talia stabbing Bruce in the ribs was a throwback to Rhas "When someone stands in the way of true justice, you simply walk up behind them, and stab them in the heart" ... and Batman's subsequent "Maybe the knife, was too slow" line (One of my favorite Bat lines in the trilogy)

Yes, for sure.

[Brain Damage]

Isn't Bane kindling a fire when we first see him underground?

[Alex Logan]

Originally Posted by Brain Damage

I think you're missing the point
The point is that a more comic-book accurate would have puppeteered everyone to further his own means, and that sort of thing would have to have been built up throughout the whole movie, of course.

Again, it's not necessary as Nolan's Batman isn't know for doing things like this, but it would have made the scene play out much better in my opinion. My biggest problems is that the way Batman acts in that scene is contradictory to how Nolan has defined him up to that point, which I've explained in my above post.

How exciting would the movies be if Batman didn't have chanllenges to over come? For the most part Nolan already did the scene you're talking about during the climax of TDK.

[Bruce_Begins]

Originally Posted by Brain Damage

Y'know Kevin Smith pointed out that if comic book Batman had been in TDKR he would have grabbed Talia's hand as she was thrusting her knife, then revealed that he knew who she was all along and was just playing her to get to Bane/the bomb.

I know comic book Batman and Nolan Batman are different beasts, but I'd love to have seen a Sherlock Holmes moment out of our hero. As it stands, Batman gets taken out WAY too easily by Talia and Bane.
Seriously, he's ready to die before Catwoman bursts in. Because he got stabbed once. I understand it probably hurt more than most of us could even comprehend, but this is BATMAN we're talking about.
What happened to fighting longer than possible?

I think that Batman would have countered Bane even if Catwoman had not showed up, even Bane was afraid to keep Batman alive at that point, it was just that Batman did not move as he was still coping up with painful knife injury and needed some time to come up with his next move, that was the reason why Bane decided to just shoot him with a gun, so that he would not get any time to make his next move.

Also, it is Nolan as a director who is prolonging a scene where Batman is suddenly incapacitated to inject some suspense.

[Anita18]

Originally Posted by Bruce_Begins

I think that Batman would have countered Bane even if Catwoman had not showed up, even Bane was afraid to keep Batman alive at that point, it was just that Batman did not move as he was still coping up with painful knife injury and needed some time to come up with his next move, that was the reason why Bane decided to just shoot him with a gun, so that he would not get any time to make his next move.

That was probably the most about that scene. He isn't going to make the same mistake as other villains, by prolonging Batman's life any more than necessary.




Also, another piece of evidence of how Bane is working WITH Talia (but not under her) is how Catwoman manages to sneak Lucius and Bruce out, but Talia somehow doesn't warn Bane about it? Selina says, "Bane wants these guys for himself" and Talia must have assumed that Bane knew what was going on, and that he was planning to kill them (or severely incapacitate them, if Bruce was still meant to stay alive) them in his custody.

I mean, I don't think Talia would be as evil as playing games with both her ally and her enemy just for kicks.

[Alex Logan]

Originally Posted by Anita18

That was probably the most about that scene. He isn't going to make the same mistake as other villains, by prolonging Batman's life any more than necessary.


Also, another piece of evidence of how Bane is working WITH Talia (but not under her) is how Catwoman manages to sneak Lucius and Bruce out, but Talia somehow doesn't warn Bane about it? Selina says, "Bane wants these guys for himself" and Talia must have assumed that Bane knew what was going on, and that he was planning to kill them (or severely incapacitate them, if Bruce was still meant to stay alive) them in his custody.

I mean, I don't think Talia would be as evil as playing games with both her ally and her enemy just for kicks.

Indeed.

[Kane52630]

[CrypticOne]

Awesome pumpkin.

[The Knight]

This is in reference to WHY DIDN'T BATMAN TAKE THE MILITARY'S HELP AT THE END of THE DARK KNIGHT RISES?

I have already said this before that in my opinion Batman's open declaration of his return with that burning bat signal was very risky as it could have prompted Bane to detonate the bomb fearing Batman's intervention and failure of his plan. What I propose( from Batman's perspective) is that the Batman contacts the military and tells them about the situation(someone had earlier posted that the military already knew the situation but by situation here I mean the intel that the bomb is a time bomb). I see no point why the military( or rather the government won't help as it is Bruce Wayne who's talking. He obviously is legitimate even if Batman is considered a "nut case". The next part of the plan requires Batman to locate and jam the bomb. He then signals the military to take the truck with the bomb into their control(I am sure a couple of stealth helicopters will do this pretty easily). Now with the bomb out of the picture, the military can lead an attack on Bane's army. Bane and his men will be caught off guard and there won't be risk of a premature detonation by Bane.There is nothing very different in this plan than the shown in the movie except for the fact that here Bane's action(of not blowing the bomb) is not taken for granted.
Note: Talia's treachery is not considered as it wasn't considered when Batman made his plan.

[Grommers]

If you were Bane..do you think you could take on a bunch of police who had been underground for months or do you think you can take on the U.S. Army.

The police are do-able, and he can further his plan to build there hope up, just to crush it. The army is something he can't handle. It's a pretty simple and reasonable belief that bane would of pushed the button if interference from an army that has Helicopters, tanks etc, ground men with fully automatics that would completely destroy his men.

I mean you could argue that they could have disguised a bunch of the military individuals as policemen..but I have to imagine that would be a lot harder to orchestrate given the time frame. (even though bruce had time to do the burning bat on the tower.)

[Street Vendor]

Originally Posted by Deserana

Could not agree more. I'm very annoyed that I only discovered this forum in December. Being here for TDK would have been sensational.

July 20th was a very bittersweet day. Started with the tragic Aurora news which just shocked me. Then I realised all the build up I've been following for a year had finished, just stopped dead. And then coming on here after all that time of anticipation to realise that quite a bit of the response was negative (well I now realise there wasn't THAT many they were just very vocal).

I left these forums for a while recently and now I've had time to properly absorb the film and I think I can admit now it was disappointing (slightly) though I still say disappointing isn't the right word (and nowhere near as disappointing as some posters on here are making out). The story, on paper at least was thee perfect endng for me and for the majority of the film it worked out.

I think the word that sums it up for me is jarring. This seemed like a follow up to BB than TDK. BB was comic-booky, TDK was very grounded and at no point did it seem like a comic book film to me. Barely any of it seemed far fetched and it had the look of a crime film. It also seemed very intimate yet made Gotham feel like a city. The action showdown took place in one building as well, very unusual for these kind of films TDK was a very intimate character piece IMO. So TDKR's massive scope, big brawling, city-wide action set pieces was very jarring to me. The intimacy of TDK allowed its story to be fleshed out to the full and very detailed IMO I know this isn't a common feeling about TDK but this is how I felt. I hate to say it but for TDKR I can't help but feel Nolan lost the story in favour of making it big. It didn't feel as intimate and intricate of TDK or BB. Nolan acheived a fine spectacle and an amazing story but sometimes they didn't work hand-in-hand. The final battle for me is the perfect example as it never felt like a battle to me, looked awesome as hell but it was pretty much ignored instantly and had much more potential.

Yet whenever I watch it I sit back and relax and my worries go out the window. It is only when I look back retrospectively that I notice these issues. I still think this is a wonderful conclusion, I still think its ridiculously entertaining, still think it should have been a two parter and still think it shouldn't have been as big in scale as it was as it was very jarring after TDK.

I think an issue may have been that the big set pieces were all out there in some form before release the Batman/Police chase, (almost) entire final battle, stadium scene, plane hijack, the Bat, Talia reveal etc... etc... now I never actively perseued these videos but my point is that they were out there. This is why this film probably let down many as they knew what was coming more or less especially in regards to the Talia reveal. Think about TDK the only action you could pretty much see online was the Batpod/Truck chase. All the stuff with the Prewitt building/ferries/Two-Face/Hong Kong/Bank Heist could all be contained. The funny thing is the people who saw the TDKR videos were annoyed that what was in the videos was what happened in the film as if Nolan should have had a trick up his sleeve.

Great post. And though I wasn't disappointed in TDKR, it did feel so different from TDK(and from what I was expecting) that it's a hard film to assess on its own merits. I think the film is slightly disjointed, needed more breathing space, and a slightly tighter script. But the good stuff so overwhelms the not so good(for me at least) that I can't decide which film is my favorite. As much as I love TDK, it didn't hit me the way the ending to TDKR did. As a lifelong Batman fan, the emotion of the ending(along with the Bane beatdown of the Bat, the prison escape, etc.) hit me very hard. I'm very glad we have both TDK and TDKR.

[Figs]

Originally Posted by Brain Damage

Isn't Bane kindling a fire when we first see him underground?

That's what I always thought.

[Bruce Banner]

Originally Posted by Street Vendor

Great post. And though I wasn't disappointed in TDKR, it did feel so different from TDK(and from what I was expecting) that it's a hard film to assess on its own merits. I think the film is slightly disjointed, needed more breathing space, and a slightly tighter script. But the good stuff so overwhelms the not so good(for me at least) that I can't decide which film is my favorite. As much as I love TDK, it didn't hit me the way the ending to TDKR did. As a lifelong Batman fan, the emotion of the ending(along with the Bane beatdown of the Bat, the prison escape, etc.) hit me very hard. I'm very glad we have both TDK and TDKR.

This pretty much sums up my feelings about it as well. At the midnight showing I spotted immediately what I disliked, but when I saw something I loved, I really did love it.

[Anita18]

Originally Posted by Figs

That's what I always thought.

You do see the small fire there in wide shots. But...why right on the ground? Cause he's badass and that's how he gets his brooding done?

[Figs]

Originally Posted by Anita18

You do see the small fire there in wide shots. But...why right on the ground? Cause he's badass and that's how he gets his brooding done?

I guess so.

I take it he got bored of trying to 'imagine the fire'.

[BaleISBatman4ev]

Bane pours out some liquid substance before he stands up though.

[Anita18]

Originally Posted by Figs

I guess so.

I take it he got bored of trying to 'imagine the fire'.

Bruce broods with bats, Bane broods with fire. Fair enough.

[CrypticOne]

I wish Bane had really succeeded in his plan to destroy Gotham. I had a dream about 6 months prior to the release of TDKR and, my dreams ending was much better.

[Cunning Stunts]

Originally Posted by CrypticOne

I wish Bane had really succeeded in his plan to destroy Gotham. I had a dream about 6 months prior to the release of TDKR and, my dreams ending was much better.

The night after The Dark Knight's release, I had a dream about what The Dark Knight Rises would be like. It was simply called "The Dark Knight II", and I was watching a white room with a police officer speaking to a woman in an odd outfit.

The woman then turns green as her hair turns bright red- obviously revealing herself to be Poison Ivy. Her arm extends into a vine and goes through the mouth and head of the police officer (similar to what the T-1000 did in Terminator 2 to that husband). Then Batman's Batmobile (the one from Batman '89) explodes through a wall, and Ivy escapes. I then ran out into the alleyway and watched as Batman drove off to capture Ivy.

I'm pretty glad that wasn't the movie.

[BareYourTeeth]

Originally Posted by Deserana

Yet whenever I watch it I sit back and relax and my worries go out the window. It is only when I look back retrospectively that I notice these issues. I still think this is a wonderful conclusion, I still think its ridiculously entertaining, still think it should have been a two parter and still think it shouldn't have been as big in scale as it was as it was very jarring after TDK.

Absolutely, that's something that I've realized over the past couple of days and I don't know why it took me so long to figure out or why Nolan/Warner didn't. We could've seen Bane's cut out prison scene (though, wouldn't that of given away the ending being a child made the climb?), Bruce visiting his parent's grave, Bruce in the prison longer, Bane's reign over Gotham, more Selina and other characters, etc.

I'm not sure of where the cut off should be though; Bruce being thrown in prison at end of the first move or end it with him making the climb out and heading back to Gotham.

I think I personally would've preferred the former with Bruce waking up (from a nightmare preferably) in prison as the opening for Part 2 to mirror the opening scene of Batman Begins.

Thoughts?

[solidsnake86]

^If they did a two-part movie, I would have liked to have seen them introduce some other villains, such as the riddler or penguin, that bane would have had control of. Sort of like how bane was using Dagget. With the ending of the film culminating in Bane's reveal and breaking batman.

I must say I'm surprised as well that WB didn't split the movie up considering it was almost three hours long.

[Deserana]

Originally Posted by solidsnake86

^If they did a two-part movie, I would have liked to have seen them introduce some other villains, such as the riddler or penguin, that bane would have had control of. Sort of like how bane was using Dagget. With the ending of the film culminating in Bane's reveal and breaking batman.

I must say I'm surprised as well that WB didn't split the movie up considering it was almost three hours long.

I'm sure someone posted an article that Warner approached Nolan but Nolan decided against it.

[BareYourTeeth]

Yeah I'm sure Warner pushed for it and that Nolan was the one who had a problem with it.

I wasn't aware of that, Deserana, thank you. If someone could post the article again that would be great.

[solidsnake86]

Originally Posted by Deserana

I'm sure someone posted an article that Warner approached Nolan but Nolan decided against it.

Oh I know. Same way WB probably wanted 3d as well. If the rumours of Nolan leaving WB are true, they will probably be kicking themselves for not doing both of the above options of splitting the movie in two parts and 3d. They are a business.

[rogue_agent]

There are rumours of Nolan leaving? Why would he do that?