Alice Krige as.....?

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by elizah72

Yes... "Fan service" indeed.

Or they may combine Hela/Mistress Death as characters in some clever way. Make them one character and have her appear in Avengers 2 within the Thanos storyline too, possibly. Some established fans may not be happy but it seems a bit overkill to have both figures in the MCU. And with likely many Asgardians dying due to war, it seems likely either or both would be appearing. And Mistress Death is sort of key to Thanos' character motivation in the comics, from what I've read...

From what I understand of these characters, such a merger would be a bigger change than it appears at first glance.

Death is a cosmic entity that originates with the universe itself. When it appears before Thanos, it chooses to manifest itself as a woman. In that guise, it is referred to as Mistress Death. Death cannot die, since it's not alive in the first place. It normally dwells in another dimension called the Realm of Death.

Hela, as you pointed out, is a Jotunn, a daughter of Loki, and ruler of Hel(-heim) as well as Nifflelheim, two of the Nine Realms of Yggdrasil. (I believe all of Yggdrasil is considered one dimension). Hela is long-lived, but ultimately mortal. She deals in the business of dead Midgardian souls, and thus could be considered an agent of Death, but it's not like they have a formal agreement.

Hela also would like to have control over Asgardian souls, which drives various plots. But dead Asgardians normally go to Valhalla, an area of Asgard overseen directly by Odin. Warriors who die with honor also go to Valhalla (in the myth they also have to be chosen by Odin. Otherwise, they go to Folkvangr, which is ruled by Freyja in the realm Vanaheim).

Death and Hela are two separate entities. To merge them would be a big shift in the cosmology as currently established, both by myth and by Marvel (what I've summarized above is Marvel's telling; myth does not have a separate Death entity, but I believe Marvel's characterization of Hela is consistent with the being Hel of myth.)

If they were to merge them, then it seems they would have to do away with Hela altogether, and have Death preside over Niffleheim and Hel directly. As Death is from the Realm of Death, which again is a separate dimension, this strikes me as a little odd. But maybe they can make it work.

Having an entity called Death and a ruler of the underworld(s) who is separate would be confusing to the general audience, I think. That would be the main reason for merging the characters, in my opinion.

But that might make for a bigger role than Krige suggested she would have.

[elizah72]

yes, thank you for the added information. That is interesting.

"that would be the main reason for merging the characters, in my opinion."
agreed. which is why I think such a combining is possible. they need it to make sense to the general audience.

On Krige's role, I think she indicated she'd have a small role in Thor 2 specifically, but there was nothing about Avengers 2 mentioned. So she may not know more or isn't telling if she does. I know they have actors signing multi film contracts and even then it seems like even those actors have little or no clue if they will be in the next Marvel film, until almost last minute.

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by elizah72

On Krige's role, I think she indicated she'd have a small role in Thor 2 specifically, but there was nothing about Avengers 2 mentioned. So she may not know more or isn't telling if she does. I know they have actors signing multi film contracts and even then it seems like even those actors have little or no clue if they will be in the next Marvel film, until almost last minute.

True, but if she were to play Hela (for the moment let us countenance separate roles for Hela and Death), it could be more than a brief appearance. I say this because Hela comes up a couple of times in the Simonson arc, and also it sounds likely we will visit all nine realms. So that seems like a lot of work for Hela.

On the other hand, if she were to play Mistress Death, it probably would be limited to just a stinger scene. (Since Hela and Death do not normally interact, as far as I know).

If they were to merge the roles, then Mistress Death's role would be as large as that for Hela that I outlined above. And that might be more than what she was suggesting she would have.

Ha--it will be funny if she turns out to play something completely different, after all this speculation!

[elizah72]

Yup. And she probably will! LOL

[jaqua99]

she probably will lol, she probably will be Hela, with a small role, or like, a dark elf queen

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

she probably will lol, she probably will be Hela, with a small role, or like, a dark elf queen

She probably will be Alflyse, LOL... considering there are Dark Elves in it. I'm a bit confused though. What exactly is her relationship with Malekith in the comics? I read somewhere they are married, but then the other stuff I read about her indicates not. She does seem to "get around" though seducing the likes of Hercules and Fandral (or is it the other way around? lol That might be fun to see in the MCU). She at one point orders an attack on Asgard, at another point it looks like Malekith is tricking others into thinking Alflyse is having her Dark Elves attack Earth, and enslave trolls. and then there is something where she "renounced the aggressive policy of the fallen Malekith for they brought her people nothing but grief."

http://marvel.com/universe/Alflyse

So... I'm just a little confused about her relationship with Malekith and who is likely to be ruling the dark elves in the MCU.

Can you shed any light on this?

[jaqua99]

I believe she was just the queen. And Malekith Used his powers to trick a lot of people into thinking she was waging war on Earth. I can't fully answer that, but I am thinking she will probably be her as well

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

I believe she was just the queen. And Malekith Used his powers to trick a lot of people into thinking she was waging war on Earth. I can't fully answer that, but I am thinking she will probably be her as well

Ok. So maybe a Queen who has Malekith trying to undermine her and take over? Does that sound right.

Still dont know why if that's all she is they seem to be keeping mum on her character name. She's not listed on IMDB even. Seems like they would just announce the character name right when she was cast, just as with Malekith and Eccleston.

Oh! Or maybe she'll be Laufey's baby mamma? LOL

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by elizah72

Ok. So maybe a Queen who has Malekith trying to undermine her and take over? Does that sound right.

Still dont know why if that's all she is they seem to be keeping mum on her character name. She's not listed on IMDB even. Seems like they would just announce the character name right when she was cast, just as with Malekith and Eccleston.

Oh! Or maybe she'll be Laufey's baby mamma? LOL

Idk what she will be. Maybe she will be Hela, I bet she plays an important role. Not important to the plot. but important as in, if we knew who it was, we'd know too mcuh

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

Idk what she will be. Maybe she will be Hela, I bet she plays an important role. Not important to the plot. but important as in, if we knew who it was, we'd know too mcuh

That seems likely yes. Otherwise it would have been said right off the bat... (now watch them release who she's playing all the sudden and it's no big whoop. LOL)

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by elizah72

That seems likely yes. Otherwise it would have been said right off the bat... (now watch them release who she's playing all the sudden and it's no big whoop. LOL)

whenever we find out who she's playing, that will probably be the case.

Wow a shocker, you and I actually agree on something lol

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

whenever we find out who she's playing, that will probably be the case.

Wow a shocker, you and I actually agree on something lol

Hee hee, it's bound to happen every once in a while.

[elizah72]

This is an interesting idea for the Krige role. I'd considered it myself though but didnt' mention before as I'm sure some will not like it. Glad I'm not the only one thinking it though. Could be very interesting....

http://celluloidandcigaretteburns.bl...thor-dark.html

However, It seems like Loki should be much more powerful than he is, if this is the case, but would certainly be a good reason why Odin would take him and try to raise him to be a force of good and why he didnt mention his mother at all.

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by elizah72

This is an interesting idea for the Krige role. I'd considered it myself though but didnt' mention before as I'm sure some will not like it. Glad I'm not the only one thinking it though. Could be very interesting....

http://celluloidandcigaretteburns.bl...thor-dark.html

However, It seems like Loki should be much more powerful than he is, if this is the case, but would certainly be a good reason why Odin would take him and try to raise him to be a force of good and why he didnt mention his mother at all.

Of course, Hela is a Jotunn. Presumably, if Loki is her son, he would not be her father So she could well be full Jotunn, which would make Loki full Jotunn too. And that doesn't align with one of your other working hypotheses

Unless they make her Asgardian, instead of Jotunn. . . .hmmm!

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by American Maid

Of course, Hela is a Jotunn. Presumably, if Loki is her son, he would not be her father So she could well be full Jotunn, which would make Loki full Jotunn too. And that doesn't align with one of your other working hypotheses

Unless they make her Asgardian, instead of Jotunn. . . .hmmm!

well she's definitely not a frost giant (which would still resolve one of my issues, if she is his mother), and really they can make her whatever they want as far as being a giantess, or normal sized, or Asgardian or something else. Seems like it would be easier to explain Hela's existence in that way, then going the traditional route and trying to explain the hows and whys of all of that in the context of the MCU.

There is a story about how he'd get Hela to take his name out of the book of Hel when he dies (more than once I think), so he could return to the living world, can't recall at the moment if that's Marvel or Myths or both, but it's kind of cool and they could use that then.

[elizah72]

I guess, since she was so fantastic as the Borg Queen, and again they've yet to name her character or list her in IMDB, I just have a really hard time believing that her "small" role will not be very big/important/impactful in a way. It would be a waste of her otherwise. And it seems like Alfyse is really quite unnecessary to the story, from what we know/think will happen so far. they have Malekith to lead the Dark Elves, they don't need a Queen too.

At the same time it's SO likely that Hela would show up, with all the death that's to be expected in Thor 2, and rumors of seeing all 9 realms in some way. And I'm still wondering if she may figure into the Thanos storyline, perhaps not as a lady Death/Hela combo, she could instead just be exchanged for Lady Death as the "love interest" for Thanos in AV2. They certainly made a few different pairings in the x men movies, from what I remember from the comics (for instance, Iceman and Rogue were never an item from what I recall). So they could certainly change some of those aspects of the story to freshen it up and make it more accessible to the general audience. And that also could explain why Thanos may allow Loki to continue to live after his failure, if he is the son of his beloved. Hm?

and...

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

if Frigga dying is true then that would be a good time to bring in his birth mother and see what happens from there. I definitely think with Krige in that role, no matter who she ends up being, that the dynamic between them would be absolutely FASCINATING.

and on a probably/possibly unrelated note, watching the very beginning of Avengers the other day, when Loki is handed the scepter, I noticed that the hooded figure that hands him the scepter is neither Thanos, The Other, or a Chitauri. That is for certain. There is a pale normal five figured humanoid hand that hands it to him. Not clear to me if it's male or female but could certainly be female.

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by elizah72

I guess, since she was so fantastic as the Borg Queen, and again they've yet to name her character or list her in IMDB, I just have a really hard time believing that her "small" role will not be very big/important/impactful in a way. It would be a waste of her otherwise. And it seems like Alfyse is really quite unnecessary to the story, from what we know/think will happen so far. they have Malekith to lead the Dark Elves, they don't need a Queen too.

Yeah, I tend to agree with that, along with the assertion you and Jon(Aqua) were making a little while back, that to reveal her character name might reveal too much.

Originally Posted by elizah72

And I'm still wondering if she may figure into the Thanos storyline, perhaps not as a lady Death/Hela combo, she could instead just be exchanged for Lady Death as the "love interest" for Thanos in AV2. They certainly made a few different pairings in the x men movies, from what I remember from the comics (for instance, Iceman and Rogue were never an item from what I recall). So they could certainly change some of those aspects of the story to freshen it up and make it more accessible to the general audience.

I suppose, but to change up Thanos' love interest from Lady Death would make it considerably more conventional and booooorrrrring.

Originally Posted by elizah72

and on a probably/possibly unrelated note, watching the very beginning of Avengers the other day, when Loki is handed the scepter, I noticed that the hooded figure that hands him the scepter is neither Thanos, The Other, or a Chitauri. That is for certain. There is a pale normal five figured humanoid hand that hands it to him. Not clear to me if it's male or female but could certainly be female.

Hmm!! I'll have to check that out!

Originally Posted by elizah72

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

if Frigga dying is true then that would be a good time to bring in his birth mother and see what happens from there. I definitely think with Krige in that role, no matter who she ends up being, that the dynamic between them would be absolutely FASCINATING.

That's very interesting, and I agree that Krige would do a good job in that event.

[American Maid]

Here's another idea for Krige, just to mix it up: The Beyonder, or the equivalent role.

Yes, I know the Beyonder was a dude in the books. But as far as I know, his changing Algrim into Kurse is the only time he interacts with the world of Thor at all (and the only reason why is is there is because the character was (for some reason) insanely popular at the time Simonson was writing the story. So everyone wanted to do tie-ins.) So it would be a relatively easy element to change up. I believe he's supposed to be this assemblage of energy that gained sentience and decided to assume hominoid form. So maybe it can choose a female form in this telling.

Or maybe Krige doesn't play the Beyonder per se, but some other character created for the film that fills that role in the story.

Someone has to change Algrim into Kurse. Why not Krige's character?

[elizah72]

well if we go back to your idea of the Tesseract as being a sentient female being, then that might be the answer, if that is the way they go. (we are here to speculate, after all) And then the Tesseract/Beyonder creature could change Algrim.

In any case, hmm... that's right, now how does Algrim change to Kurse without a character or other catalyst like that? and that could certainly be considered a brief short role, especially if...

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

At some point that gets tied in the with Jane gets possessed storyline... so it goes from Jane to the Krige character or vice versa and one of them changes Algrim to Kurse.

I sort of prefer this idea about Hela at the moment but I think the above is possible too.

Again it seems such a waste to put her in a lot of makeup so she's unrecognizable for what seems like an unnecessary and brief role.

[elizah72]

and along those lines regarding the Tesseract/Cosmic Cube being sentient and female and possibly linked to the Beyonder, AM, check this out...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosmos_(Marvel_Comics)
http://marvel.wikia.com/Maker_(Earth-616)
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/kosmoscube.htm


so Krige could mean that she's not recognizable because she's been CGI'd and not necessarily just makeup.

[Vartha]

Sounds like Thor-Girl almost. The Designate.

also the way Loki had talked about the Tesseract, there are more than ONE.
He does say, "You have A tesseract"

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by elizah72

well if we go back to your idea of the Tesseract as being a sentient female being, then that might be the answer, if that is the way they go. (we are here to speculate, after all) And then the Tesseract/Beyonder creature could change Algrim.

It would be very creative. I get the impression T:TDW is supposed to go in a more cosmic direction, with the implication that there would be elements way beyond what people might imagine. This idea would fit the bill.

Originally Posted by elizah72

In any case, hmm... that's right, now how does Algrim change to Kurse without a character or other catalyst like that? and that could certainly be considered a brief short role, especially if...

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

At some point that gets tied in the with Jane gets possessed storyline... so it goes from Jane to the Krige character or vice versa and one of them changes Algrim to Kurse.

Yes, the idea you have behind the spoiler button had occurred to me too.

Someone *does* have to step up and change Algrim, though. I doubt he's going to change all by himself!

Originally Posted by elizah72

Again it seems such a waste to put her in a lot of makeup so she's unrecognizable for what seems like an unnecessary and brief role.

Well, she said "almost" unrecognizable.

Originally Posted by elizah72

and along those lines regarding the Tesseract/Cosmic Cube being sentient and female and possibly linked to the Beyonder, AM, check this out...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosmos_(Marvel_Comics)
http://marvel.wikia.com/Maker_(Earth-616)
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/kosmoscube.htm


so Krige could mean that she's not recognizable because she's been CGI'd and not necessarily just makeup.

Wow! Kind of astounding.

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by Vartha

Sounds like Thor-Girl almost. The Designate.

also the way Loki had talked about the Tesseract, there are more than ONE.
He does say, "You have A tesseract"

More than one Tesseract. Oh, that's trouble!

Interesting to read about The Designate, too.

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by American Maid

It would be very creative. I get the impression T:TDW is supposed to go in a more cosmic direction, with the implication that there would be elements way beyond what people might imagine. This idea would fit the bill.

Yes, the idea you have behind the spoiler button had occurred to me too.

Someone *does* have to step up and change Algrim, though. I doubt he's going to change all by himself!

Wow! Kind of astounding.

Yup. I think we (starting with you, of course ) may very well be onto something there, if we're looking for something that could fit neatly in with what we already know is going on in Thor 2, then her being a character like this (with some variations) seems quite likely.

And I believe in my wanderings/research I saw reference to more than one cosmic cube too, so that makes sense. but still they could be sentient.

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by elizah72

Yup. I think we (starting with you, of course ) may very well be onto something there, if we're looking for something that could fit neatly in with what we already know is going on in Thor 2, then her being a character like this (with some variations) seems quite likely.

And I believe in my wanderings/research I saw reference to more than one cosmic cube too, so that makes sense. but still they could be sentient.

Thanks!

And if it's something very different from what we've seen so far, dazzling power that is unknown on earth, it could be really cool.

Don't have a sense for how much that would be like stuff that is in any of the books, though.