The (potential) Masters of Evil thread

[I'm Venom]

Even if the name is played out, I think it could work in a film.

[CosmicCap]

Seriously I just want Justin Hammer back Rockwell is an amazing actor, and seeing him with a team of villains in A2 would be brilliant!

[DrCosmic]

I forgot about Radioactive Man! Yes, please!

Red Skull as their Cap
Radioactive Man as their Iron Man
Abomination as their Hulk
Crossbones as their Widow
Justin Hammer as their Fury
Kurse as their Thor

It's an awesome set up, imho.

[I'm Venom]

The original storyline where the Masters of Evil pretend to be heroes would be cool. Perhaps preceed it with a Baron Zemo vs. Captain America film.

[jaqua99]

Well, with the recent news, and the fact that crossbones is in Avengers 2, I think we very well may be getting the masters of evil, probably as Thanos minions

[Artistsean]

I once read some place that the idea of calling your team the Masters of Evil is saying something more than a scary name. Its saying they know they are evil, and maybe its a necessary evil. Or maybe its meant to be more like a heroic sounding name, they are the masters of evil, evil can't do anything with them in charge because they are so heroic. But most likely if they use them they will probably change it the same way they changed Magneto's Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, which became the Brotherhood. They will go from the Masters of Evil to simply being called the Masters.

I like the idea of the team being:
Baron Zemo, who is revealed to have a past with Captain America (or his ancestors do).
Crossbones
Sin
Madam Masque
Enchantress
Executioner
Melter or Abomination

Because its mostly normal guys with guns and body armor like Crossbones, Zemo, or Madam Masque, but then there is also Enchantress and Executioner in their traditional Asgardian armor. and maybe a monster character like Abomination. Since the Avengers were pretty much normal human SHIELD agents, then Thor, Iron Man, and Cap. Really just three special guys. And then a monster Hulk (who was never meant to be on the team, just Banner as a scientist).

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by Artistsean

I once read some place that the idea of calling your team the Masters of Evil is saying something more than a scary name. Its saying they know they are evil, and maybe its a necessary evil. Or maybe its meant to be more like a heroic sounding name, they are the masters of evil, evil can't do anything with them in charge because they are so heroic. But most likely if they use them they will probably change it the same way they changed Magneto's Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, which became the Brotherhood. They will go from the Masters of Evil to simply being called the Masters.

I like the idea of the team being:
Baron Zemo, who is revealed to have a past with Captain America (or his ancestors do).
Crossbones
Sin
Madam Masque
Enchantress
Executioner
Melter or Abomination

Because its mostly normal guys with guns and body armor like Crossbones, Zemo, or Madam Masque, but then there is also Enchantress and Executioner in their traditional Asgardian armor. and maybe a monster character like Abomination. Since the Avengers were pretty much normal human SHIELD agents, then Thor, Iron Man, and Cap. Really just three special guys. And then a monster Hulk (who was never meant to be on the team, just Banner as a scientist).

Enchantress and Executioner aren't in Thor 2. No reason for them to appear in avengers 2

[I'm Venom]

Let's see:

Led by Zemo because Marvel needs more big deal villains.

Baron Zemo (leader)
Abomination
Crossbones
Enchantress
Executioner
Melter

I'd love to see Punisher help take down Crossbones with Cap. That said, maybe that's too greedy of me to pile Cap, Crossbones, Falcon, Fury, Hill, Punisher, and Widow all into one film. It's not happening obviously, but still.

[jaqua99]

no. they aren't just going to pull characters from no where for avengers 2. again, unless enchantress and executioner appear in thor (which they probably won't) they won't be in an avengers movie...

IF we get the MoE, it will be a variation of these characters most likely

Zemo
Abomination
Crossbones
Malekith
Kurse
Manderin
Radioactive Man

a variation of these guys.

Marvel studios isn't going to just pull characters out of thin air. Especially since Thanos IS confirmed for Avengers 2. If he assembles, some sort of MoE, then said characters will already be introduced during Phase 2.

[I'm Venom]

Uh. Who said anything about Masters of Evil for Avengers 2?

[DrCosmic]

The OP specifically asks "If Whedon decides to go MoE this time around..."

The theory going around now, I believe, is that Thanos will stretch into Phase III, thus, some additional villains will be in Avengers 2 to be defeated since Thanos won't. The MoE seem likely choices.

More than the lineup, I'd love to see Thanos actually assembling these people Fury style. It'd be crazy.

Originally Posted by jaqua99

Zemo
Abomination
Crossbones
Malekith
Kurse
Manderin
Radioactive Man

a variation of these guys.

This seems most right. I don't think we'll get Masterminds like Madarain and Malkeith in there, though. I suspect they'll go Red Skull before trying to introduce Zemo, though Zemo is pretty great.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

no. they aren't just going to pull characters from no where for avengers 2. again, unless enchantress and executioner appear in thor (which they probably won't) they won't be in an avengers movie...

IF we get the MoE, it will be a variation of these characters most likely

Zemo
Abomination
Crossbones
Malekith
Kurse
Manderin
Radioactive Man

a variation of these guys.

Marvel studios isn't going to just pull characters out of thin air. Especially since Thanos IS confirmed for Avengers 2. If he assembles, some sort of MoE, then said characters will already be introduced during Phase 2.

Yeah, if MoE ever assemble onscreen, it's going to be most likely villains we've already seen. That's the whole point of the MoE --- it's a bunch of the individual heroes' personal archvillains teaming up to get revenge.

That's why I think it's unlikely and unwise to even consider the MoE for a movie.....it works in the comics because you've had years or decades to get to know these villains in the solo comics; you don't have that luxury in just a film or two in the MCU. While it made fanboys giddy to see, say, Zemo (Cap villain) team up with Enchantress (Thor villain) and Abomination (Hulk villain) and Melter (Iron Man villain) in the comics, I somehow doubt casual moviegoers are *really* going to want to see a whole host of frankly lame movie villains come back in some frankly lame team-up.

That's jumping the (Tiger) Shark territory for Avengers.

[M-2]

I think Cherokeesam has a valid point..

I personally feel like if they do, make MoE as the villains ever, it should almost become a World War type of event, with each villain using there resources, and men to wage a war against the Avengers...

But then again, it might still come off a bit cheesy... I think it would be cool if Marvel did the Thunderboltz, with Zemo as the leader especially if he is introduced in Cap 2.

A Thunderboltz movie could have the perfect balance of drama, action and comedy, with villains pretending to be heroes and actually falling inlove with that new fond status.

[CosmicCap]

Zemo, Enchantress, and Abomination are not lame and if Thanos brings them all together audiences will love just as much as they loved seeing the Avengers team up.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by CosmicCap

Zemo, Enchantress, and Abomination are not lame and if Thanos brings them all together audiences will love just as much as they loved seeing the Avengers team up.

Zemo and Enchantress don't even exist in the MCU yet. We have no idea how they'd work out onscreen. All we know is the villains who've already appeared and who aren't dead (yet) --- and right now, that's pretty much Abomination, Red Skull, Loki and Thanos (who has yet to be developed beyond a silent smile at a Lady Death joke).

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

I forgot about Radioactive Man! Yes, please!

Red Skull as their Cap
Radioactive Man as their Iron Man
Abomination as their Hulk
Crossbones as their Widow
Justin Hammer as their Fury
Kurse as their Thor

It's an awesome set up, imho.

I'd drop Hammer, and make Thanos the Nick Fury. Have him assemble this group at the promise of great power, in hopes of distracting the Avengers from his plan to gain the Infinity Gauntlet.

[The Question]

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

You're way too good at that. I hope you're writing something somewhere. But I don't think there are 5-6 villains who would sign up for "Masters of Evil" without it being a stretch. Perhaps he bills it as the Masters, and only in the end does Zemo's full madness come out in front of his peers he slides in that dialogue in reply to some point. "Masters of Evil, of course..."

Again, it's all about how you play it. Like, The Abomination from The Incredible Hulk, I could see that guy joining up with the MoE for a chance to wreck ****. All Zemo would need to do is collect the right number of (and please excuse me for quoting the Harry Potter books for a second) "the weak seeking protection, the ambitious seeking some shared glory, and the thuggish gravitating toward a leader who could show them more refined forms of cruelty."

Like, that's how real life cults and terrorist organizations start. Jim Jones and Charles Manson spouted off nonsense that made them sound like lunatics, but to the right people it sounds like gospel. And super villains, who by their very nature are socially deviant and exist outside of social norms, would be pretty good targets for that kind of sales pitch.

[I'm Venom]

Originally Posted by KangConquers

I'd drop Hammer, and make Thanos the Nick Fury. Have him assemble this group at the promise of great power, in hopes of distracting the Avengers from his plan to gain the Infinity Gauntlet.

I'd prefer Zemo just so the Masters of Evil can be in Avengers 3. He's the true leader of the MoE.

[DrCosmic]

Originally Posted by KangConquers

I'd drop Hammer, and make Thanos the Nick Fury. Have him assemble this group at the promise of great power, in hopes of distracting the Avengers from his plan to gain the Infinity Gauntlet.

I like that, that's cleaner. I still see Hammer around, either in his own suit or controlling some drones. It also helps with the outnumbering problem a smaller Masters of Evil would have, especially with the Avengers adding 1 or 2 to their roster.

Originally Posted by The Question

Again, it's all about how you play it. Like, The Abomination from The Incredible Hulk, I could see that guy joining up with the MoE for a chance to wreck ****. All Zemo would need to do is collect the right number of (and please excuse me for quoting the Harry Potter books for a second) "the weak seeking protection, the ambitious seeking some shared glory, and the thuggish gravitating toward a leader who could show them more refined forms of cruelty."

Like, that's how real life cults and terrorist organizations start. Jim Jones and Charles Manson spouted off nonsense that made them sound like lunatics, but to the right people it sounds like gospel. And super villains, who by their very nature are socially deviant and exist outside of social norms, would be pretty good targets for that kind of sales pitch.

Hmmm... individual pitch moments could be interesting, and it could also show the brilliance of Thanos/Red Skull in getting the right order of people. Abomination and Kurse would probably go for 'Evil' pretty quickly, being they are of the aformentioned thuggish variety, while Crossbones and especially Radioactive Man are in it for other reasons.

On Red Skull

While I like Zemo and respect the comics, the plain fact is that if the Cube does open 'on the other end' then Red Skull went straight to Thanos 50 years ago. He's Thanos' foremost resource and most accessible agent for manipulating humanity. It only makes sense he'd send Skull. There's really no better plot point for Red Skull to come back on.

I just hope they can get Hugo Weaving to get over himself, give him something to chew on, some nefarious twisted 'gospel' to preach and let him do it up.

[The Question]

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

I like that, that's cleaner. I still see Hammer around, either in his own suit or controlling some drones. It also helps with the outnumbering problem a smaller Masters of Evil would have, especially with the Avengers adding 1 or 2 to their roster.



Hmmm... individual pitch moments could be interesting, and it could also show the brilliance of Thanos/Red Skull in getting the right order of people. Abomination and Kurse would probably go for 'Evil' pretty quickly, being they are of the aformentioned thuggish variety, while Crossbones and especially Radioactive Man are in it for other reasons.

On Red Skull

While I like Zemo and respect the comics, the plain fact is that if the Cube does open 'on the other end' then Red Skull went straight to Thanos 50 years ago. He's Thanos' foremost resource and most accessible agent for manipulating humanity. It only makes sense he'd send Skull. There's really no better plot point for Red Skull to come back on.

I just hope they can get Hugo Weaving to get over himself, give him something to chew on, some nefarious twisted 'gospel' to preach and let him do it up.

Thing is, I'd prefer the Masters of Evil to not be Thanos-related. Like, once the dust has settled and the alien menace is defeated, you have some human, like Zemo, rising up and saying the Avengers showed how the world is different now, and he's here to show the consequences of that. That's more interesting to me.

Plus, if Thanos is looking to get more directly involved in Earth's affairs, I don't want to see him working through proxies like the Masters. Doesn't really feel like him, and we already got a bit of that with Loki.

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by I'm Venom

Uh. Who said anything about Masters of Evil for Avengers 2?

That's what we were talking about, I thought this caught fire from the rumor that crossbones will be in avengers 2

Originally Posted by KangConquers

I'd drop Hammer, and make Thanos the Nick Fury. Have him assemble this group at the promise of great power, in hopes of distracting the Avengers from his plan to gain the Infinity Gauntlet.

That is EXACTLY how I see it going. I mean, if Crossbones IS in the avengers 2, then, it seems very likeely. Of course they won't be the masters of evil. Just something for thanos to get the gauntlet unnoticed.

[I'm Venom]

MOE with Thanos? I doubt it.

[DrCosmic]

Originally Posted by The Question

Thing is, I'd prefer the Masters of Evil to not be Thanos-related. Like, once the dust has settled and the alien menace is defeated, you have some human, like Zemo, rising up and saying the Avengers showed how the world is different now, and he's here to show the consequences of that. That's more interesting to me.

Plus, if Thanos is looking to get more directly involved in Earth's affairs, I don't want to see him working through proxies like the Masters. Doesn't really feel like him, and we already got a bit of that with Loki.

That does sound interesting, very TDK-ish, but I don't think you can use them in Avengers 2 or 3 without them being Thanos related, and I think that can still be their motivation even if they are Thanos related. And everything other than him personally putting hands on the Avengers is using a proxy, there's plenty room to present something different in that gap. Just because Thanos gives them a push, or a leader doesn't mean that they're using his weapons and army to achieve his goals, for instance.

[Chewy]

Y'all are listing Kurse and/or Malekith. If they stay anywhere near the ballpark of the Simonson storyline for the two of them in Thor 2, neither will appear here. Nor would they "team up" with a bunch of human villains in the first place.

[DrCosmic]

Really? I never read the actual story, but I'm pretty sure that Kurse gets sent to Earth to kill Thor at some point. And amnesiatic too. I feel you on Malekith though.