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Old 10-14-2012, 07:01 AM   #126
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Default Re: Bryan Singer: Why 'Superman Returns' Didn't Work

Ever since I saw the Sam raimi Spider-man movies I dreamt of a new Superman movie (if the action of Spider-man and matrix could be done imagine Superman).

The lack of HUGE action killed the movie for me. That and it just felt dated when dealing with the relationships and "touchy-feely" moments. Everything about the movie felt dated. And face it while great at the time, the Superman movies are hardcore cheese today. In 20-30 years time the Raimi Spider-man trilogy (Action aside) will end up like the original Superman movies.

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Old 10-30-2012, 04:03 PM   #127
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Default Re: Bryan Singer: Why 'Superman Returns' Didn't Work

Hello everyone,

I've tried to create a new thread because I've never put out my thoughts on Superman Returns and I feel that I have so many things to say about it. But...I'll be brief...

It concerns a little the new movie too.

At the end of the day - what do you have in a Superman movie? A guy wearing a blue suit and red cape saving people. Wether they make 47 new reboots - it will always be the same story. Personally - I was so happy with SR because we had the SAME Superman character emoting kindness and caring. I couldn't have card less if all he'd done was a few heroics - but the bonus was the plane save.

Now, I was told that the new movie cuts off like if they'd never done movies before so... Why does Jor-El have the "S" symbol on his chest? It was Donner who first brought this up in a movie... A lot of people critized the color palette of SR but the (only) picture of Man of Steel also has a dark palette. Not only that but why are we getting Zod again? Like they said as if no other movies had been made before - while there are a lot of Kryptonians around so...why Zod?

Here something constructive - albeit late and I'm no producer: what SR lacked was a "good punch" at the end (no pun). And that could've been accomplished easily. Lex Luthor having hands on Kryptonian technology would've shown up in his armor (bronze age) version making it a product of ancient Kryptonian soldiers (modified for his needs) and then they could've duked it out.

I know that the new Superman movie will have a lot of that. And I find this a little sad. It's the same principle that Roddenberry had: the Enterprise is an exploration vessel. But they'd only make money at the movies if they could have epic battles where there was destruction and death. Superman only fight because he has no choice but he never wants to - it's his last resort. The way I see it though - it will be his first resort in the next movie.

Thanks for reading this "brief" text.

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Old 10-31-2012, 06:10 PM   #128
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Default Re: Bryan Singer: Why 'Superman Returns' Didn't Work

It definitely suffered from s lack f action, it could've at least been entertaining with some better action scenes i.e.. fight scenes. The best scene of the whole film is the plane sequence yet they don't build on that. But ack of action is only one of the problems with the film but the 3rd act would've benefited from an exciting ending with Superman throwing down with someone.

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Old 11-03-2012, 12:07 AM   #129
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Default Re: Bryan Singer: Why 'Superman Returns' Didn't Work

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Everything about the movie felt dated.
He had a kid out of wedlock. That's pretty modern. Despite people's personal views on this, I don't think deep down some of the the public set too well with the world's biggest boy scout having a child in such a manner. I'm sure some people didn't care, but I can't help asking myself "why did Singer do this?"

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Old 11-04-2012, 11:36 AM   #130
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Default Re: Bryan Singer: Why 'Superman Returns' Didn't Work

What didn't work for me:

Theme: I thought the religious motifs, the Superman as Messiah stuff was a bit too on the nose.

Tone: The film was too somber, the color palette too dark or grim. Superman should be bright, uplifting, soaring.

Direction/Casting: I think these two things are combined. While I don't think Routh was a horrible choice, I think he was given bad direction by Singer. And while I do think that Bosworth was a poor choice, it was Singer who picked her. Also Singer's idea to tie the films to the Reeve films instead of just updating Superman completely for a 21st century audience were misguided. He got swept up too much into his own nostalgia and assumed that the mass audience would be to. Perhaps they would have if we were watching the same actors in the Reeves films, but it made little sense to cast new actors for old roles. It was unfair to the new actors.

Action: Or rather lack thereof. There wasn't enough action or moments for Superman to truly be super. The film didn't take advantage of all the cool special FX and CGI available to them that the Reeves films didn't have. The plane rescue was the most thrilling moment in the entire film and that was near the beginning. The only other superfeat was lifting the island laced with kryptonite which should've been impossible for Superman to do. It stretched credulity even for a Superman film.

Antagonists: I thought Spacey as Luthor was inspired but the direction left a lot to be desired. That being said, I wish that either Lex hadn't been in the film or that Singer had recognized that Superman has a lot of villains and threw one or more of them in the film along with the Luthor. Seeing Superman get beat down by Kal Penn and some no name dudes was sad.

Plot: It was lame and made no sense. Who would want to live on a barren island laced with Kryptonite? And we never saw how Lex would stop other people from taking the island. If he had Kryptonian weapons why didn't he use them on Superman?

Jason: I didn't care for Superman having a son. It was a misfire way for Singer to try to make Superman relevant but it came across like Kal-El being a deadbeat dad. Him stalking Lois didn't help either.


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Old 11-05-2012, 07:22 PM   #131
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Default Re: Bryan Singer: Why 'Superman Returns' Didn't Work

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He had a kid out of wedlock. That's pretty modern. Despite people's personal views on this, I don't think deep down some of the the public set too well with the world's biggest boy scout having a child in such a manner. I'm sure some people didn't care, but I can't help asking myself "why did Singer do this?"

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Old 11-06-2012, 03:12 AM   #132
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Default Re: Bryan Singer: Why 'Superman Returns' Didn't Work

In a lot of ways, I feel like the creation of "Superman Returns" and its ultimate inability to press on with creating a franchise, thus leading to the events that resulted in "Man of Steel" being created was like a "blessing in disguise" for Superman fans of many types in several different ways. How?

1. Well, if you were a fan of the TV Show "Smallville", in particular, ED's portrayal of Lois Lane and the overall Clark and Lois dynamics, then you'd be happy to know that it was because of Singer and his decision to make his superman story a "return" one that allowed the TV producers to bring Lois into the show when their previous attempts had proven unsuccessful with the former Directors that were attached to the Superman Film project prior before Singer came on board.

With the film franchise going on another temporary hiatus, it allowed the show to finally break free from a lot of the creative restrictions that they had due to the film development, and allowed them things like being able to use the SR suit for their own product (even though the reception of that idea was somewhat mixed).

2. It was because of Singer wanting to use Marlon Brando's version of Jor-el that forced Warner Bros. to find a settlement with Brando's estate, thus giving them the rights to finally show the long lost footage of Brando in his performance as Jor-el for Donner's original take of "Superman 2", which many people at the time thought that they would never see.

3. In a lot of ways, given on how CR's last Superman film was considered the worst of the bunch, SR served as a good sense of closure to that era/period of Superman-on-film, in particular with things like the Crystal Designs for Krypton, The Red Trunks on live action format, and most notably; the John Williams Score for Superman's main theme.

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Old 11-06-2012, 06:58 AM   #133
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Default Re: Bryan Singer: Why 'Superman Returns' Didn't Work

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Originally Posted by herolee10 View Post
In a lot of ways, I feel like the creation of "Superman Returns" and its ultimate inability to press on with creating a franchise, thus leading to the events that resulted in "Man of Steel" being created was like a "blessing in disguise" for Superman fans of many types in several different ways. How?

1. Well, if you were a fan of the TV Show "Smallville", in particular, ED's portrayal of Lois Lane and the overall Clark and Lois dynamics, then you'd be happy to know that it was because of Singer and his decision to make his superman story a "return" one that allowed the TV producers to bring Lois into the show when their previous attempts had proven unsuccessful with the former Directors that were attached to the Superman Film project prior before Singer came on board.

With the film franchise going on another temporary hiatus, it allowed the show to finally break free from a lot of the creative restrictions that they had due to the film development, and allowed them things like being able to use the SR suit for their own product (even though the reception of that idea was somewhat mixed).

2. It was because of Singer wanting to use Marlon Brando's version of Jor-el that forced Warner Bros. to find a settlement with Brando's estate, thus giving them the rights to finally show the long lost footage of Brando in his performance as Jor-el for Donner's original take of "Superman 2", which many people at the time thought that they would never see.

3. In a lot of ways, given on how CR's last Superman film was considered the worst of the bunch, SR served as a good sense of closure to that era/period of Superman-on-film, in particular with things like the Crystal Designs for Krypton, The Red Trunks on live action format, and most notably; the John Williams Score for Superman's main theme.
Good observation.

So, Singer directing SR provided us -

* Smalville for 10 seasons.
* SR movie as a vague sequel to Donner movies.
* Superman 2 - The Richard Donner Cut.

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Old 11-24-2012, 06:17 PM   #134
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Default Re: Bryan Singer: Why 'Superman Returns' Didn't Work

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What didn't work for me:

Theme: I thought the religious motifs, the Superman as Messiah stuff was a bit too on the nose.

Tone: The film was too somber, the color palette too dark or grim. Superman should be bright, uplifting, soaring.

Direction/Casting: I think these two things are combined. While I don't think Routh was a horrible choice, I think he was given bad direction by Singer. And while I do think that Bosworth was a poor choice, it was Singer who picked her. Also Singer's idea to tie the films to the Reeve films instead of just updating Superman completely for a 21st century audience were misguided. He got swept up too much into his own nostalgia and assumed that the mass audience would be to. Perhaps they would have if we were watching the same actors in the Reeves films, but it made little sense to cast new actors for old roles. It was unfair to the new actors.

Action: Or rather lack thereof. There wasn't enough action or moments for Superman to truly be super. The film didn't take advantage of all the cool special FX and CGI available to them that the Reeves films didn't have. The plane rescue was the most thrilling moment in the entire film and that was near the beginning. The only other superfeat was lifting the island laced with kryptonite which should've been impossible for Superman to do. It stretched credulity even for a Superman film.

Antagonists: I thought Spacey as Luthor was inspired but the direction left a lot to be desired. That being said, I wish that either Lex hadn't been in the film or that Singer had recognized that Superman has a lot of villains and threw one or more of them in the film along with the Luthor. Seeing Superman get beat down by Kal Penn and some no name dudes was sad.

Plot: It was lame and made no sense. Who would want to live on a barren island laced with Kryptonite? And we never saw how Lex would stop other people from taking the island. If he had Kryptonian weapons why didn't he use them on Superman?

Jason: I didn't care for Superman having a son. It was a misfire way for Singer to try to make Superman relevant but it came across like Kal-El being a deadbeat dad. Him stalking Lois didn't help either.
Quoted for truth. My problems with it, too. Nailed it.

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Old 11-25-2012, 06:33 AM   #135
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Default Re: Bryan Singer: Why 'Superman Returns' Didn't Work

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What didn't work for me:

Theme: I thought the religious motifs, the Superman as Messiah stuff was a bit too on the nose.
Yeah I agree with that, I think Singer was too focused on that sort of stuff.

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Originally Posted by DarKush View Post
Tone: The film was too somber, the color palette too dark or grim. Superman should be bright, uplifting, soaring.
Agree again, I thought it could have started out somber by as soon as Superman Returned the film should have brightened up.

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Originally Posted by DarKush View Post
Direction/Casting: I think these two things are combined. While I don't think Routh was a horrible choice, I think he was given bad direction by Singer. And while I do think that Bosworth was a poor choice, it was Singer who picked her. Also Singer's idea to tie the films to the Reeve films instead of just updating Superman completely for a 21st century audience were misguided. He got swept up too much into his own nostalgia and assumed that the mass audience would be to. Perhaps they would have if we were watching the same actors in the Reeves films, but it made little sense to cast new actors for old roles. It was unfair to the new actors.
Yeah I don't think Routh was given enough to do, he had very little lines, he was definitely more like the Fleischer version of Superman. Bosworh was very miscast but I also think she was poorly written and directed too.

As for the nostalgia trip I think it could have worked but was executed poorly. What he should have done was made a film more like 1989's Batman where its not a straight up origin but looks back to it.

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Action: Or rather lack thereof. There wasn't enough action or moments for Superman to truly be super. The film didn't take advantage of all the cool special FX and CGI available to them that the Reeves films didn't have. The plane rescue was the most thrilling moment in the entire film and that was near the beginning. The only other superfeat was lifting the island laced with kryptonite which should've been impossible for Superman to do. It stretched credulity even for a Superman film.
Probably the biggest problem with the whole movie but i have to admit I don't think Singers very good as Epic action scenes, this film definitely needed a supervillain.

As I've stated before I think the plane sequence is the most thrilling moment I've ever seen in a film so thank god he got that right.

Agreed on the island whilst I loved it as a spectacle it was abit hard to swallow. Singer totally got Kryptonite wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarKush View Post
Antagonists: I thought Spacey as Luthor was inspired but the direction left a lot to be desired. That being said, I wish that either Lex hadn't been in the film or that Singer had recognized that Superman has a lot of villains and threw one or more of them in the film along with the Luthor. Seeing Superman get beat down by Kal Penn and some no name dudes was sad.
Again I agree with the directing. I still think Lex should've been in the film as I feel he's as much a part of Superman's supporting cast as Lois or Jimmy. If Singer wanted Superman to come back to a changed world wouldn't it have made perfect sense for him to come back to a world where Lex owns most of Metropolis and see him as a saviour? definitely think Singer missed a trick there.

That beatdown was embarrassing.

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Plot: It was lame and made no sense. Who would want to live on a barren island laced with Kryptonite? And we never saw how Lex would stop other people from taking the island. If he had Kryptonian weapons why didn't he use them on Superman?
Again agreed, I wish they'd have had him at least use some of this advanced Alien technology he'd bragged about maybe then we could have had Superman smack down with somthing.

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Jason: I didn't care for Superman having a son. It was a misfire way for Singer to try to make Superman relevant but it came across like Kal-El being a deadbeat dad. Him stalking Lois didn't help either.

Yeah all that was awful

All in all Singer blew it really, I do enjoy the film but I can't watch it without thinking I'd change this and this throughout it. Singer should've stayed with X-Men infact I bet he wishes he had. But as stated above maybe this film was a blessing in disguise.

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Old 11-25-2012, 09:07 PM   #136
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Default Re: Bryan Singer: Why 'Superman Returns' Didn't Work

Singer should have done his third X-Men movie. That way we'd be spared Ratner's crappy X-3, and we'd also be spared SR.

Win win.

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Old 11-26-2012, 11:25 AM   #137
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Default Re: Bryan Singer: Why 'Superman Returns' Didn't Work

I agree, Singer should do X-3 and script wise go with the Kevin Smith's Superman Lives elements for Superman Returns, that WAS a comic book movie script.

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Old 11-28-2012, 12:56 PM   #138
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Default Re: Bryan Singer: Why 'Superman Returns' Didn't Work

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That beatdown was embarrassing.
I thought it was well done - in a disturbing/dark/cruel/sinister sense.

The hero encountering a dramatic setback - or even a resounding defeat - (in or around the third act) is a fairly standard trope.

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Old 11-29-2012, 08:18 AM   #139
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Default Re: Bryan Singer: Why 'Superman Returns' Didn't Work

I thought the beatdown was a bit misplaced to be honest. Whilst I agree that it was disturbing/cruel and really showed the pure evil side of Lex Luthor, I found it hard to stomach that - even without his powers - Superman wouldn't fight back more.

We've seen him in many of the comic stories without powers and it's always been clear that it's not just superpowers that make him Superman - it's his perseverance, determination and never-give-up-attitude. He was virtually powerless when he took on the Cyborg in the Reign of the Supermen arc, going into the battle knowing he would probably die, but he still had some fighting ability and a lot of spirit. I never got much sense of that from Singer's Superman as Lex's goons beat him up. Even without superpowers and reduced to human-like ability, Kal El is still a big strong guy - I'd liked to have think he could have went one on one with any of the henchmen.

But then again, Singer's Superman also seemed a bit lost at times, came across slightly depressed, and was prone to spying ................. so there's lots of characteristics he didn't quite nail.

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Old 12-05-2012, 05:44 PM   #140
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Default Re: Bryan Singer: Why 'Superman Returns' Didn't Work

If you want to see the story of Superman Returns redeemed, pick up the adaptation. Jason is not Superman's son, the Return to Krypton sequence is elaborated upon, and the story is much more effective. Not great, but it works as a sort of Elseworlds stand-alone novel and allows you to insert your own image of Superman and his world than the lackluster version Singer gave us.

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