What if Justice League bombs?

[ThePowerCosmic]

Originally Posted by JB-the-Hunter

I hate to break it to you guys, but once DC gets their own cinematic universe, there's not gonna be any sense of danger either. That's just the way it goes.

I disagree. It all depends on how they handle the tone of the movies.

[JB-the-Hunter]

Originally Posted by ThePowerCosmic

I disagree. It all depends on how they handle the tone of the movies.

Well I guess it depends on your definition

[ThePowerCosmic]

Originally Posted by JB-the-Hunter

Well I guess it depends on your definition

I mean, of course we know the world or anything won't be destroyed because they have to make more movies and these are the main characters. But, the sense of true danger and loss can be achieved if they handle it correctly. Certain 'legacy' characters can even die, so others can take their place(Flash and Green Lantern).

[JB-the-Hunter]

Originally Posted by ThePowerCosmic

I mean, of course we know the world or anything won't be destroyed because they have to make more movies and these are the main characters. But, the sense of true danger and loss can be achieved if they handle it correctly. Certain 'legacy' characters can even die, so others can take their place(Flash and Green Lantern).

Ok... then I don't understand how there wasn't any sense of danger in The Avengers. There were many times where if I didn't already know they would survive I would've thought they were going to die. Iron Man at the end, Hulk vs. Black Widow, the part where Hawkeye blows up the helicarrier, the part where Nick Fury gets shot at the beginning, the part where Thor gets dropped in the cage, the part where Coulson dies... oh wait... he actually did die. It's going to be the exact same types of scenarios in the JL movie. If anybody's expecting a TDK level sense of danger they're kidding themselves, those movies were a set trilogy and not a continuous universe so they could take liberties with the sense of danger.

[ThePowerCosmic]

Originally Posted by JB-the-Hunter

Ok... then I don't understand how there wasn't any sense of danger in The Avengers. There were many times where if I didn't already know they would survive I would've thought they were going to die. Iron Man at the end, Hulk vs. Black Widow, the part where Hawkeye blows up the helicarrier, the part where Nick Fury gets shot at the beginning, the part where Thor gets dropped in the cage, the part where Coulson dies... oh wait... he actually did die. It's going to be the exact same types of scenarios in the JL movie.

There was never a complete sense of danger for me because of the lighter tone and the how the characters handled supposedly dangerous situations. Things like Tony's confrontation with Loki were so jokey that I didn't even fear for his survival when he was thrown out of the window(Because Tony didn't show any fear in the confrontation either, except for an unconvincing scream). A part I really liked that got across a sense of danger for a character was when Black Widow had blood dripping down her forehead and truly looked like she was out of her league after killing a Chitauri soldier. Coulson was only allowed to die because he's an expendable character, and to be honest I wasn't that heartbroken when he did die. He even made it slightly humorous by blasting Loki through a wall with a gun in a 'toony' manner. An actual hero on the team like Barry Allen dying could be done in a heartbreaking and memorable way. And that wouldn't mean the end of the Flash, either, because Wally West would take up the Flash legacy.

Even something like Hulk attacking Widow didn't feel all that dangerous to me, because he wasn't doing all that he could to take her down. If she was fearfully, yet skillfully, flipping around Hulk as he attacked, then I would've been scared for her in that moment. When Hulk came up to her, he moved his arm up in a slow manner and acted like he was going to backhand her or something. Because he showed hesitation, I knew that he wasn't going to hit her at that point. Like I said, it's all how you handle it.

Another example where I felt a sense of danger is in the trailer for Iron Man 3. I know Tony's going to survive, but I truly felt a sense of danger for him when he was pulled to the bottom of the ocean and had that building falling on him. Same for when he was taken by the terrorists in IM1. Also, I liked in The Avengers when Cap was fighting with Thor and he was shot in his gut. Really got that sense of danger for him across.

Even in this animated movie, I felt more danger for The Avengers going up against Hulk than I did for them going up against the Chitauri. Especially Widow and Cap.

[metaphysician]

Originally Posted by JB-the-Hunter

I hate to break it to you guys, but once DC gets their own cinematic universe, there's not gonna be any sense of danger either. That's just the way it goes.

That's okay, if DC gets their own cinematic universe, suddenly team-movies and joint settings won't be "safe" anymore.

[jmc]

Originally Posted by Zarex

I think there's some serious "Monday Morning Quarterbacking" going on here by underplaying the risk Marvel took in setting up the MCU. It was extraordinarily risky for Marvel to commit large budgets for movies with an unknown actor starring as a Norse alien god and a WW2 film with a hero draped in the US flag. And if both films failed, a team up involving characters the movie going public previously rejected is certainly no guaranteed success.

I agree that Feige and company played it safe in terms of plotting, but that is true for almost all superhero origin stories. And it appears as though they will be loosening things up to a large degree in phase 2.

How is what Marvel did any more or less risky than what any other studio does? If each lead up film was vital to the plot of Avengers then yes I would agree it would have been a risky and quite frankly foolish strategy. But the films aren't, you don't need to watch any one film to watch the other. This was never a LOTR type situation, if you want to talk about genuine risk they don't get any bigger than those films, had that first film failed films two and three were a write off and it would have gone down as one of the most colossal screw ups in Hollywood history. And again once IM was the success it was they automatically had a draw for Avengers, so a safety net was in place. I guarantee you if Thor and Cap did Hulk like numbers Avengers still is a successful movie, not nearly as big of course but still a successful movie. The only real risk was potential future sequels to Cap and Thor coz Avengers was never going to tank once IM made almost 100million on it's opening weekend, which lets be honest, nobody was expecting. Right place, right time, and frankly right actor, anyone else plays Tony Stark and that film is nowhere near as popular.

[shauner111]

Originally Posted by JB-the-Hunter

Ok... then I don't understand how there wasn't any sense of danger in The Avengers. There were many times where if I didn't already know they would survive I would've thought they were going to die. Iron Man at the end, Hulk vs. Black Widow, the part where Hawkeye blows up the helicarrier, the part where Nick Fury gets shot at the beginning, the part where Thor gets dropped in the cage, the part where Coulson dies... oh wait... he actually did die. It's going to be the exact same types of scenarios in the JL movie. If anybody's expecting a TDK level sense of danger they're kidding themselves, those movies were a set trilogy and not a continuous universe so they could take liberties with the sense of danger.

I guess it doesn't help when they spoil key shots in the trailers and announce more solo films for Iron Man, Thor and Captain America ahead of time.

Like the whole thing with Iron Man and whether he was gonna die or not. We all knew Hulk was going to catch Iron Man from the sky at one point and it didn't happen yet so it was a give-away. Maybe that was marketing that screwed up the sense of danger in that scene. But everything else was different.

Coulsons death was the safest and most ridiculous thing. I've had this convo with quite a few people in person and online and we usually agree. It was such a safe move. Even though we expected that character to go on for more movies (and he was entertaining) he was a minor character. He never had much screen-time, nobody in the team cared about this guy. He was just some idiot or he was ignored. And it's supposed to be believable when Tony Stark and others are taking 10 minutes to be all upset? They tried making it all dramatic and it wasn't even a big deal. He even died with a one-liner if my memory is still good.

It was as if Joss Whedon went "we can't kill off any of the superheroes cuz that's who the Avengers are and we need them for sequels so who can we kill off? Let's just kill the minor character since we have to kill SOMEBODY to make it a little dramatic". It's supposed to be this war like invasion in New York City and we dont really see any casualties either. That's another thing.

JL could be safe too im not arguing that. I might even hate the movie. But the way they're jumping right into it is far more risky. Rebooting Batman so soon for this is also a big risk. If they stay away from alien invasions and try to go a little more grounded than Avengers, that's ALSO a risk since you're dealing with characters who are just as over the top as Marvels Avengers.

We'll see.

Oh and Thor getting dropped in the cage, Hulk chasing after Black Widow, Hawkeye and the hellicarrier? I never felt the danger in any of those scenes. I always knew nothing would happen to Black Widow, etc.

Again..it was a fun movie but i didn't feel like it was a seperate case from the other Marvel flicks.

[cleverusername8]

Originally Posted by shauner111

I guess it doesn't help when they spoil key shots in the trailers and announce more solo films for Iron Man, Thor and Captain America ahead of time.

Like the whole thing with Iron Man and whether he was gonna die or not. We all knew Hulk was going to catch Iron Man from the sky at one point and it didn't happen yet so it was a give-away. Maybe that was marketing that screwed up the sense of danger in that scene. But everything else was different.

Coulsons death was the safest and most ridiculous thing. I've had this convo with quite a few people in person and online and we usually agree. It was such a safe move. Even though we expected that character to go on for more movies (and he was entertaining) he was a minor character. He never had much screen-time, nobody in the team cared about this guy. He was just some idiot or he was ignored. And it's supposed to be believable when Tony Stark and others are taking 10 minutes to be all upset? They tried making it all dramatic and it wasn't even a big deal. He even died with a one-liner if my memory is still good.

It was as if Joss Whedon went "we can't kill off any of the superheroes cuz that's who the Avengers are and we need them for sequels so who can we kill off? Let's just kill the minor character since we have to kill SOMEBODY to make it a little dramatic". It's supposed to be this war like invasion in New York City and we dont really see any casualties either. That's another thing.

JL could be safe too im not arguing that. I might even hate the movie. But the way they're jumping right into it is far more risky. Rebooting Batman so soon for this is also a big risk. If they stay away from alien invasions and try to go a little more grounded than Avengers, that's ALSO a risk since you're dealing with characters who are just as over the top as Marvels Avengers.

We'll see.

Oh and Thor getting dropped in the cage, Hulk chasing after Black Widow, Hawkeye and the hellicarrier? I never felt the danger in any of those scenes. I always knew nothing would happen to Black Widow, etc.

Again..it was a fun movie but i didn't feel like it was a seperate case from the other Marvel flicks.

Yeah, I EXPECT to see civilian casualties in Man of Steel and Justice League. Lots of them depending on what the threat is in Justice League's case.

However, I do not expect to see any major character deaths in the first movie. The audience needs time to care about the characters that they aren't very acquainted with but prime candidates are Flash, Martian Manhunter, or one of the second tier characters like Green Arrow if he or any like him appear. My money is on Flash like people have been saying and having Wally step up for future movies. Like in the cartoon, Flash will probably end up being the heart of the team and probably the most lovable member. There'd be a change in how the team handles things and definitely a lasting impact on the individuals.

But like I said, they ought to save that for movie two or three. Especially since Wally probably wouldn't be best for the first solo Flash movie.

[ThePowerCosmic]

Makes me wonder. If Barry Allen is eventually popular and liked amongst audiences, like Stark, would they ever kill him off so another actor playing Wally can replace him?

[The Guard]

Barry Allen's death in JUSTICE LEAGUE: MORTAL is one of the most beautiful moments I've seen written for a superhero on film.

And if Barry does prove to be a popular character, a solo THE FLASH film could easily be a prequel featuring Barry's adventures (and Wally), with future Justice League movies moving ahead with Wally West as The Flash.

[ThePowerCosmic]

Yeah, that death in the Mortal script was really beautiful.

Prequels are an interesting way to handle it, I wouldn't mind if they did that.

[lancimouspitt]

How about just doing a bats meats supes movie?

[metaphysician]

Its what I think they should be doing instead of rushing JLA.

[Lantern Venom]

Originally Posted by Bruce_Begins

Avengers was a highly entertaining, well made movie, I think it will be difficult for JL to be as successful as Avengers.

But, let's not pretend that Avengers was a piece of high art or the greatest comic book movie ever made, as it's 92 % RT rating 1.55 bil. box office and universal praise seems to suggest.


It was marketed as a "event" movie and main objective was to earn money so that more such movies could be made, nothing wrong with that, WB has struggled in past to give entertaining comic book movies (excluding Batman.) that make money.

Let's not pretend it was schlock, either. There were some truly great acting performances. More importantly, when Avengers tried to hit a profound chord, it did. When I think about Loki's statement of "There are no men like me." being answered with, "There are always men like you", that speaks volumes about why the world is the way it is.

Then there was Stark raising the questions about Government agencies keeping secrets and Fury countering with a speech about the need for military intelligence and ever-evolving weaponry. The proper degree of governmental transparency is an ongoing discussion whenever there is a war or an election.

Avengers just didn't get bogged down with these themes, which would have taken focus away from the popcorn moments. I know some hardcore DC-only fans don't want to hear about a Marvel movie being used as a template for JLA, but I don't see why they wouldn't want to borrow from what works. As long as if doesn't look like a direct ripoff (an alien invasion would be a mistake), in which cases audiences might balk.

[BATZARRO WWD]

You know, I joined this forums specifically to know more about and discuss a Justice League movie. Check the joint date.


In those days the discussion of "If JL bombs" came up quite often. The answer was ussually that it would kill the solo movies. My reply would be: "what solo movies?"

So with 4 years since (time that many said was worth it for a "real" and "good" movie if DC "employed the Marvel method" like they didn't), I can safely say if Justice League Mortal had bombed, we'd never have gotten Green Lantern and...well, that's roughly it.

Who knows what other masterpieces of the medium we could lose if these new JL movie bombs? The future is murky.

[p4poetic]

A Justice League movie won't flop, let alone bomb. It's the Justice League.

[Lord]

It's possible for it to disapoint a little in the box office but not to bomb

[Panthro]

Originally Posted by p4poetic

A Justice League movie won't flop, let alone bomb. It's the Justice League.

That's what the WB producers thought with Batman & Robin back in 1997: "It can't flop let alone bomb. It's Batman."

[Zionite1]

Originally Posted by Panthro

That's what the WB producers thought with Batman & Robin back in 1997: "It can't flop let alone bomb. It's Batman."

Not to mention they said the same with Superman returns

[Panthro]

Originally Posted by Zionite1

Not to mention they said the same with Superman returns

Exactly. There's no guarantee a JLA film will work.

[RadioSha]

Originally Posted by The Guard

Barry Allen's death in JUSTICE LEAGUE: MORTAL is one of the most beautiful moments I've seen written for a superhero on film.

And if Barry does prove to be a popular character, a solo THE FLASH film could easily be a prequel featuring Barry's adventures (and Wally), with future Justice League movies moving ahead with Wally West as The Flash.

Wait. How did Barry Allen die in Justice League: Mortal? I can't find the full script anywhere

[shauner111]

I cant bring myself to compare a future JLA movie to a Shumacher piece of crap. Yeah it'll probably make less than Avengers. But i doubt it would flop. From what we hear, it's not going to be a comedy-fest for kids. It's still Batman and Superman together in a more serious situation. It's going to make a lot of money.

[DChero]

I feel like the Justice League movie can actually play off of the success of the Avengers, so I don't think it's even remotely close to bombing... even if it underwhelms.

If Man o' Steel is critically successful, there's your catalyst. Iron-Man did the same for Marvel.

We may even be able to compare the recent Green Lantern movie to the Hulk. I admit that the Incredible Hulk performed better, but it certainly wasn't enough to greenlight a sequel. By putting that character in a new setting, I feel like the Green Lantern can be redeemed to the GA. Even though the GL movie didn't go as well as it should have, people are familiar with the origin, so we won't need to see it again in JL.

[TheBat447]

This time in a few years (when JL hits screens) it will be like comparing The Dark Knight Rises to Amazing Spider Man (on comparison to Avengers)... trust me. I, like you, know **** about this movie but it's just the way it will be. As it always is.