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Old 10-21-2012, 10:02 PM   #1
herolee10
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Default Would Gotham have been more vulnerable to Bane if Dent had survived?

Looking back at "The Dark Knight Rises", a part of me wonders now; if Dent, let alone Rachel, had survived the events of "The Dark Knight", with Dent never having fallen from Grace and Bruce having seemingly retired from being Batman on his own terms from his mind at least, would that have made Gotham even more vulnerable to Bane's attack on it 8 years later?

I mean, it was said in "The Dark Knight Rises" that Gordon was still in his war zone mindset, as if he was expecting for the storm to come in, and despite how low Bruce had gotten, if he had been allowed to enjoy a relatively peaceful life instead, then he may have learned to enjoy it thus not having the mindset of not fearing death which is probably a big reason why Bane spared Bruce's life after their first encounter.

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Old 10-22-2012, 12:03 AM   #2
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Default Re: Would Gotham have been more vulnerable to Bane if Dent had survived?

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Originally Posted by herolee10 View Post
Looking back at "The Dark Knight Rises", a part of me wonders now; if Dent, let alone Rachel, had survived the events of "The Dark Knight", with Dent never having fallen from Grace and Bruce having seemingly retired from being Batman on his own terms from his mind at least, would that have made Gotham even more vulnerable to Bane's attack on it 8 years later?

I mean, it was said in "The Dark Knight Rises" that Gordon was still in his war zone mindset, as if he was expecting for the storm to come in, and despite how low Bruce had gotten, if he had been allowed to enjoy a relatively peaceful life instead, then he may have learned to enjoy it thus not having the mindset of not fearing death which is probably a big reason why Bane spared Bruce's life after their first encounter.
Interesting question. I know one thing though, Dent would have gotten his neck snapped by Bane, lol.

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Old 10-22-2012, 12:25 AM   #3
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Default Re: Would Gotham have been more vulnerable to Bane if Dent had survived?

It would've been a very different situation, to be sure. No Dent Act means that the mob wouldn't have gone down AS easy as it did without Harvey. No blame placed on Batman for any crimes means that he's still relatively cool in the public eye, too.

Bane would've had to have found dirt on Dent to make him seem corrupt, otherwise his plan would've had to have been different.

I'd say Bane would've continued with the Joker's work had Dent survived. Pushed him over the edge, corrupted him, shown Gotham his ugliness and "thrown the chips down" on the city.

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Old 10-22-2012, 10:04 AM   #4
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Default Re: Would Gotham have been more vulnerable to Bane if Dent had survived?

Likely Bane would have done to Dent (or at least try) what he did to Mayor Garcia and what he had men try to do to Commissioner Gordon in the hospital....wipe him out.

Remember, for Bane it was all a ruse to get Gotham riled up and desperate before he destroyed the city. He just found out what happened to Harvey by happenstance and used it accordingly. He does not care about if judicial or Constitutional laws were broken by the Dent Act. To him it was about destroying Gotham. Harvey would just be another obstacle.

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Old 10-22-2012, 10:10 AM   #5
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Default Re: Would Gotham have been more vulnerable to Bane if Dent had survived?

But Dent's death set off the chain reaction of events which led to Bane taking over Gotham. If he was alive would the events even pan out as they had?

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Old 10-22-2012, 12:09 PM   #6
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Default Re: Would Gotham have been more vulnerable to Bane if Dent had survived?

Well the main difference I can think of with the plot would be that Bruce may have been aware of Bane using Daggett (since he'd be an active Batman), and also there would have been no Modine and no reason to decide to chase Batman instead of Bane. I think Dent's death is pretty crucial in allowing bane's plan to nearly come to fruition.

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Old 10-22-2012, 12:53 PM   #7
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Default Re: Would Gotham have been more vulnerable to Bane if Dent had survived?

The main thing I can think of is what ever state Gotham would be in if Dent lived, it would be more plausible to believe it's in that condition than some parole denying Act taking out organized crime.

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Old 10-22-2012, 04:10 PM   #8
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Default Re: Would Gotham have been more vulnerable to Bane if Dent had survived?

I think Dent being alive also would have achieved low crime. He locked up half the city's criminals in one day after-all. However, he might have been killed off by the mob because of this eventually.

Bruce wouldn't have been a recluse with regards to relationships. Although Rachel marrying Dent wouldn't be the greatest news, he'd be able to move on and start with someone new.

Bane still would have come. I still don't think Bats would have beaten Bane. Bane might not have freed the inmates of Black-gate if they were there justifiably. If Bruce was already in a relationship, he might have had his guard down less with regards to Miranda.

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Old 10-22-2012, 05:30 PM   #9
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Default Re: Would Gotham have been more vulnerable to Bane if Dent had survived?

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The main thing I can think of is what ever state Gotham would be in if Dent lived, it would be more plausible to believe it's in that condition than some parole denying Act taking out organized crime.
To me, just because they never specify that it doesn't do more, doesn't mean it wasn't. Them saying the act denies citizens basic rights, coupled with the fact that the Act did indeed clean up the streets leads us to the basic assumption that the Act allowed the Gotham police and justice system to do what they needed to cleaning up the streets, moral conundrums be damned. To the people of Gotham, and therefore to the audience, it's like the Patriot Act. The average citizens knows that it's basically breaching citizen's rights, but allow it to happen for the 'safety of America.' This touched on a huge theme from especially TDK about the fine line between how to protect people vs protect civil liberties.

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Old 10-22-2012, 06:22 PM   #10
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Default Re: Would Gotham have been more vulnerable to Bane if Dent had survived?

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The main thing I can think of is what ever state Gotham would be in if Dent lived, it would be more plausible to believe it's in that condition than some parole denying Act taking out organized crime.
Quoted for truth.

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Old 10-22-2012, 07:42 PM   #11
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Default Re: Would Gotham have been more vulnerable to Bane if Dent had survived?

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Originally Posted by herolee10 View Post
Looking back at "The Dark Knight Rises", a part of me wonders now; if Dent, let alone Rachel, had survived the events of "The Dark Knight", with Dent never having fallen from Grace and Bruce having seemingly retired from being Batman on his own terms from his mind at least, would that have made Gotham even more vulnerable to Bane's attack on it 8 years later?
You would only get this scenario if you remove Joker from the mix either entirely or early on enough for him not to cause any damage. What you would be left with is a Gotham and Bruce in a better state eight years on than what we have in Rises. Bruce would have pursued a relationship with Rachel that may or may not have worked but Harvey would be there as the living symbol of hope, Batman wouldn't be a hated figure, and everyone would be better equipped to handle Bane's attack. Effectively, Bane's plan wouldn't have worked. Bruce wouldn't have abandoned Batman in bitterness and tried to help the city with the fusion reactor inadvertently giving Bane a nuke among other things.

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Old 10-25-2012, 04:16 PM   #12
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SHH! Re: Would Gotham have been more vulnerable to Bane if Dent had survived?

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But Dent's death set off the chain reaction of events which led to Bane taking over Gotham. If he was alive would the events even pan out as they had?
Bane was coming for Gotham no matter what. He was "here to end the borrowed time you've all been living on." If Dent was alive, it probably means Batman would still be active and the city would be even more beholden to criminality, because Dent's death hadn't pressured the city to break the Constitution with the Dent Act.

Dent's death did not usher in Bane. The only thing about it that Bane used was that Dent in fact was crazed when he died and shot (corrupt) cops and gangsters. Either way, Bane would have carried out his plan pretty much the same. Dent would just be another civil leader he'd try to have executed, not unlike Mayor Garcia and Commissioner Gordon in the film.

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Old 10-29-2012, 10:00 PM   #13
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Default Re: Would Gotham have been more vulnerable to Bane if Dent had survived?

If there had been various mob factions for Bane to pull together (or destroy, whichever), then the plan may not have come together so easily. As it was, he only REALLY had to take out the police and Daggett.

Also, Gordon may not have been so hasty to send ALL the cops down into the tunnels. The whole thing was like an allergy - a complete overreaction to was going on. He was like that because of the guilt over the Dent cover-up.

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Old 11-04-2012, 06:07 PM   #14
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Default Re: Would Gotham have been more vulnerable to Bane if Dent had survived?

The whole Dent coverup was just ridiculous anyway, if they were going to blame Dents death on someone they could have just said it was a masked crook who got away, why blame batman at all?

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Old 11-04-2012, 08:12 PM   #15
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Default Re: Would Gotham have been more vulnerable to Bane if Dent had survived?

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The whole Dent coverup was just ridiculous anyway, if they were going to blame Dents death on someone they could have just said it was a masked crook who got away, why blame batman at all?
Not to mention how everybody just took it at face value when and how Bane revealed the cover-up..

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Old 11-05-2012, 01:21 PM   #16
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Default Re: Would Gotham have been more vulnerable to Bane if Dent had survived?

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Not to mention how everybody just took it at face value when and how Bane revealed the cover-up..
Ding ding ding ding. We have a winner.

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Old 11-05-2012, 03:42 PM   #17
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Default Re: Would Gotham have been more vulnerable to Bane if Dent had survived?

Perhaps they didn't? After all, Gordon got to keep his job. One of the mistakes of the film is we did not get a broader scope of what citizens who were not major characters thought of the events.

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Old 11-05-2012, 03:53 PM   #18
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Default Re: Would Gotham have been more vulnerable to Bane if Dent had survived?

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Perhaps they didn't? After all, Gordon got to keep his job.
That's one thing I wanted to see addressed. Gordon's fate as Police Commissioner after the Dent lie came out.

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One of the mistakes of the film is we did not get a broader scope of what citizens who were not major characters thought of the events.
Exactly

Especially since Begins and TDK had plenty of that.

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Old 11-05-2012, 04:41 PM   #19
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Default Re: Would Gotham have been more vulnerable to Bane if Dent had survived?

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One of the mistakes of the film is we did not get a broader scope of what citizens who were not major characters thought of the events.
Quoted for truth.

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Old 11-05-2012, 06:38 PM   #20
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Default Re: Would Gotham have been more vulnerable to Bane if Dent had survived?

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That's one thing I wanted to see addressed. Gordon's fate as Police Commissioner after the Dent lie came out.



Exactly

Especially since Begins and TDK had plenty of that.
I would argue that Begins did not do it much more, if any, than Rises. But I agree the second film is vastly superior in this department.

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Old 11-05-2012, 09:02 PM   #21
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Default Re: Would Gotham have been more vulnerable to Bane if Dent had survived?

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Not to mention how everybody just took it at face value when and how Bane revealed the cover-up..
The main point of Bane's speech was to rile the Blackgate prisoners and Gotham's other miscellaneous disenfranchised up. If you notice during his speech the prisoners start to rebel and get violent even before he starts to read Gordon's letter. They are smitten by Bane, thinking him to be their liberator and so they believe what he tells them. In that way the fact that it's actually true is almost irrelevant. As for Gordon, he could have easily denied it when Blake brings it up and there wouldn't be much to prove he was lying (though Blake was suspicious of it) but he doesn't because, as was previously established, there was a part of him that wanted the truth to come out.

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Old 11-06-2012, 12:02 AM   #22
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Default Re: Would Gotham have been more vulnerable to Bane if Dent had survived?

Promising them their freedom would be enough to get them all excited and smitten with Bane.

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Old 11-06-2012, 04:10 AM   #23
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Default Re: Would Gotham have been more vulnerable to Bane if Dent had survived?

Who knows what state Gotham would be if tdk didnt happen the way it did.
They are connected in the storyline. You cant' separate them. Talia uses Gotham's state to attack the individual. That's the important thing.

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Old 11-06-2012, 10:40 AM   #24
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Default Re: Would Gotham have been more vulnerable to Bane if Dent had survived?

I think a more interesting scenario to ponder is what would have happened if Bane had shown up in the midst of the Joker's assault on Gotham. Or let's say (assuming real-world events would not have kept this from being a possibility) that the Joker escaped Arkham when Bane showed up. Would they have partnered up? Been enemies? What would the outcome have been in either case?

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